Dragono wrote:1. I like editing this way, too much time for the other way.
2. You literally laid out a defense for everything GT reused. How is that not making excuses for it?
3.Time limit is irrelevant. They brought them back, they brought everyone back, period just to lead up to a character that is literally the same as we had before. Plus that is still defending it.
4.An excuse Childish at times? Do you hear yourself? You just gave an excuse for something people including you would bash super for doing even once because Goku wasn't flanderize most of the time.
5.Thats because you said GT never regressed clothing when it regressed the mc's age, you the claimed it didn't matter because it didn't mess with his character whcih is again defending it.
6.You said super tried to rely soley on z's success when GT tried to be something new, but when i told you those new things super did, you said they weren't done well which was never the argument at hand, hence why i said you were being biased.
1. Not really. Either on PC or a cell phone, it's quite easy to delete everything else not directed to you and keep the [ / quote] at the end of the post.
2. The concepts reused on GT are barely noted by the audience, small plots from early DB? A Tuffle antagonist? (A plot from an OVA that is unknown for a considerable part of the fanbase) The most noted is the Super 17 arc that was rehash of Movie 12 without Gogeta.
3. Irrelevant for you. Villains like Freeza, Cell and others played minor roles as the antagonist was Super 17, is not like they had came back with a plot all surrounded to them like Freeza did it on Super.
4. You meant read, right? And yes, it is an excuse. Goku being turned into a child was it allowed him to act silly without treatening the image of his Z self. He became a kid and simply went along with it. In the more serious situations, he could turn into SSJ4 at will. Meanwhile in Super, we have to go through Adult Goku's acting really childish, even when his whole Universe is on stake or when Future Trunks came for help. He greatly overestimates his own strength and doesn't take any serious cautions immediately, or even worse, he totally messes up the whole plan (Not finishing Frost, not going Blue against Black during their first match, or the Senzu Bean "incident")
5. I don't see the big deal about Goku being turned into a kid on GT, sure I would prefer him to keep as a adult, but as I said above, it was just a physical regression and not character regression like Super.
6. But GT really tried to be something new: we never had an universe exploration before, characters having to travel to a bunch of planets to solve a conflict. We never had Goku having to deal with an enemy who controlled his loved ones (he was absent in the Garlic Jr. filler) and after the boring Super 17 arc we had an last arc solely based on the overuse of the Dragon Balls coming to bite the main cast. Super retold plots from the previous Z movies (BoG and RoF), later we got a tournament with barely no stakes, then we got a good arc about an Evil Goku that it had some stakes, but when we think that Beerus could have solved the whole conflict by himself (like Zen-Oh did in the end) it makes all the thing pointless and the last arc another damn tournament that was supposed to have a lot of stakes, but in the end was nothing but a test from the Omni-King.
Damn, just like what I feared most: Toriyama is introducing dreadful Minus concepts to this movie. Not really surprising, but I wish he had forgot those
LightBing wrote:I get the anime forcing the character into a bigger role might have influenced perceptions but it's obvious that Mr.Toriyama has relegated him to a secondary character. You guys aren't doing yourselves any favors having this discussion over and over again.
Dude's got a family and a job. He has better things to do than getting punched in the face because his dad poked the God/Ancient Being/OP crazy guy just for a fight.
I could say the same about Piccolo, why force him in this plot movie, just to punch some minions? Show some reactions towards other characters power level and of course being sidelined as he always was. Gohan actually had a decent role on the manga (that some assume it has more influence from Toriyama than the anime) also he was the guy who defeated Broly on the last time, people don't care if he's on a conference, we just want to see an design.
That's an official image (or a very, very good fan made one). I assume it's from the movie's official site ? Regardless, if there's one thing this movie has done right is finally giving Vegeta that form. 
