"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Hm, really makes me think.

Wow, such an insightful comment from you. You've added a ton to the discussion. Holy shit I've never SEEN such insight.

Sarcasm aside, yes, that's how language works. I said I won't discuss what he likes, and then I made it clear that the subjective line is from my perspective. I'm glad you understand.

I wouldn't think it necessary to directly lay out the hypocrisy when I pointed it out so clearly, but here goes nothing. The entire basis of the discussion you two are having is "quality," as you yourself state. That is an inherently subjective discussion, full of (gasp) opinions. You can drop the pretense of objectivity because there's nothing to be objective about, especially when you brought up GT. You'd have a point if you were merely discussing the videogames and Heroes which are purely commercial products lacking artistic intent, but GT has some sort of artistic merit and bringing it up to the discussion as you did so thoughtlessly means you unintentionally geared this discussion toward the realm of subjectivity. Now I wouldn't really care about pointing this out if you were merely talking about financial success, as your first post on this subject seemed to suggest, but you just had to bring up "quality" while sitting atop that famous high horse of yours so I thought I'd knock you down a peg. Address what he's saying properly.

[Grimlock]

Nonsense. I'm not going to get into the subjectivity of what you like or don't like, so you don't do that either.

For years Dragonball products sold themselves on shallow "what ifs" that amounted to "HEY WE GAVE VEGETA/BROLY SUPER SAIYAN 3!" That's as "creative" as this shit got. Transformations in lieu of character development.

The Super manga has more direct Toriyama influence, and with it and Battle of Gods and Resurrection F, we see that each new transformation marks a change in character for our heroes.

It's reality. Because it's common knowledge that not only people disregard completely what is labeled solely by fans as "non-canon", what also happens here is that Toriyama and his main series can do anything, but if any other media comes up with something different but that is still within the realm of possibility, that media will be attacked without due knowledge or reasonable arguments.

I'm always thinking about how much hate Heroes would get (more than it already gets) if it had come up with shitty Golden Freeza and embarassing recolors. The what-if nowadays are more than just "We just gave him a new form" so you may want to pay more attention to what's really happening around you.

However, Monaka and Botamo's designs actually fit their characters and the role they're supposed to play. Botamo was meant to be disarming because of his rotund appearance, and then said appearance was justified in-story with his ability. Monaka was meant to look pathetic to conceal the fact that he was the strongest in Universe 7 (and to trick the viewers into thinking that's actually what's going on, before the reveal that he really IS as pathetic as he looks).

I think those are better uses of character designing than the Para Para Brothers, Super Hot Topic 17, More-Spikes-Than-Mega-Aerodactyl Omega Shenron, and pretty much any Dragonball Heroes-original character.

Heroes original characters:

• Mechikabura - a design that obviously implies some connection to Kaioshin people going by his clothes. We know that he has a history with Kaioshin of Time.
• Cumber - a Saiyan from the past whose body was altered by Fu. Probably his clothes were also given by Fu since he's the only character Cumber has been involved so far. His hair is huge but nothing different from what we have seen before.
• Sauza/Roberu - Clothes fitting for wizards.

Their appearances fit their characters and the role they're supposed to play. Yet, they aren't too simplistic (i.e. boring and lame as fuck like Monaka and Botamo) but they also aren't too much going on. So you see, coming up with excuses for designs everyone can do. But there's no denying that something being too simple may not be as atractive as a "normal"-level something would be.

I'm talking about quality. The quality of the franchise has improved drastically as far as I'm concerned.

Tell me, what quality stuff like Dragon Ball Minus and Movie 15 possess? What quality by giving your audience unnecessary retellings and tournaments with just fights going on the franchise has?

[Saiga]

Torishima's the guy who said it should have ended at Freeza so we wouldn't have women and geezers fighting.

Torishima can stay as far away from DB as humanly possible.

What's wrong with what he said?

And you're misrepresenting him. He said the androids didn't look threatening.

I'm misinterpreting nothing. He literally said 'if you're going to have old farts and women fighting, it's best to call it a day' which is utterly ridiculous.

I don't care where he thinks the series should have ended, but that he has such a problem with women fighting (or old people, given that Roshi was a thing)

This thread has more detail on it viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30634

[Doctor.]

I'm misinterpreting nothing. He literally said 'if you're going to have old farts and women fighting, it's best to call it a day' which is utterly ridiculous.

I don't care where he thinks the series should have ended, but that he has such a problem with women fighting (or old people, given that Roshi was a thing)

This thread has more detail on it viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30634

Yes, and considering how he complained to Toriyama that #19, Gero, #17 and #18 were not threatening, then clearly his problem is with the overall design of the characters and whether they fit as major villains, not whether one of the four characters he complained about happens to be a woman.

[Saiga]

I'm misinterpreting nothing. He literally said 'if you're going to have old farts and women fighting, it's best to call it a day' which is utterly ridiculous.

I don't care where he thinks the series should have ended, but that he has such a problem with women fighting (or old people, given that Roshi was a thing)

This thread has more detail on it viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30634

Yes, and considering how he complained to Toriyama that #19, Gero, #17 and #18 were not threatening, then clearly his problem is with the overall design of the characters and whether they fit as major villains, not whether one of the four characters he complained about happens to be a woman.

Then why did he focus on her being a woman? His statement could not be clearer in its intent.

[prince212]

Anyways. Moving on back to the manga. I hope that UI Goku (not Omen) isn't a strength-wise power-up, and Goku rather hits Jiren's weak spots or regions where his ki is least concentrated in for maximal effect. Something that doesn't involve requiring a ridiculous power-up as is expected to defeat a much stronger antagonist.

Yeap , after last chapter roshi message about power not being all in a fight , I don’t think goku is gonna get more power than jiren . Also in my interpretation of the anime jiren was having more power than goku , but less trust in his teammates and also in himself the moment goku put him in the floor before goku loosing his ultra instinct...
I think they’ll keep that message in the manga , jiren being stubborn about power-trauma to finally ( after being defeat) understand that is good to have “friends” or trust in people that is in your side .
What I’m curious is about how ultra instinct moves are gonna be draw , I hope something else different than roshi dodging jiren ....some blurring technique is what I’m expecting , not the topical one in dragon ball
Like this [spoiler][/spoiler]
Ultra instinct movements were nice in the anime and the manga needs something cool to depict that , not an easy task

[Hawk9211]

I'm misinterpreting nothing. He literally said 'if you're going to have old farts and women fighting, it's best to call it a day' which is utterly ridiculous.

I don't care where he thinks the series should have ended, but that he has such a problem with women fighting (or old people, given that Roshi was a thing)

This thread has more detail on it viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30634

Yes, and considering how he complained to Toriyama that #19, Gero, #17 and #18 were not threatening, then clearly his problem is with the overall design of the characters and whether they fit as major villains, not whether one of the four characters he complained about happens to be a woman.

Then why did he focus on her being a woman? His statement could not be clearer in its intent.

You are taking it too literally,Torishima was also the one who wanted a girl protagonist for dr. slump.

[Rakurai]

Heroes original characters:

• Mechikabura - a design that obviously implies some connection to Kaioshin people going by his clothes. We know that he has a history with Kaioshin of Time.
• Cumber - a Saiyan from the past whose body was altered by Fu. Probably his clothes were also given by Fu since he's the only character Cumber has been involved so far. His hair is huge but nothing different from what we have seen before.
• Sauza/Roberu - Clothes fitting for wizards.

I legit hope that SDBH will overlap with the main continuity someday. That way we get the best of GT and SDBH, the Xeno gang and the Demon Realm. Fuck it if he isn't taking his expanded universe anywhere and focuses on Saiyans only then at least bring us more Saiyans. I don't care if it's Toriyama that does it, it just needs to happen and not as a reboot. I like the new Broly but by the Omni-King his new attire is just a fashion disaster.

[JazzMazz]

Here's to hoping that next chapter is really nice.

Wonder what content will be covered?

Will Jiren vs Goku be the main focus, or will they also cover the elimination of Toppo and Dyspo.

I think the worst thing that I wouldn't want to see, is Vegeta, Toppo and Dyspo get completely sidelined.

I think they at least deserve something, considering how long they've stuck around. They don't need much for a proper exit, but I hope it they aren't simply knocked off in the same fashion everyone else was when Kale went on a rampage. That would be horribly anti-climatic.

[Grimlock]

I legit hope that SDBH will overlap with the main continuity someday.

Yeah me too. Surely if you are going to do a new series these days you should have brought something entirely new, or basing on a concept recently added*, like what Heroes (Xenoverse and FighterZ*) is doing.

But nope, let's get ourselves retellings, tournaments and barely a "plot" for the most part of it.

like the new Broly but by the Omni-King his new attire is just a fashion disaster.

It's ironic that Toriyama himself seems to only be able to come up with cool designs for games too, Android 21 and Shallot both have better designs than Broly and most of Dragon Ball Super characters.

[ekrolo2]

Yes, and considering how he complained to Toriyama that #19, Gero, #17 and #18 were not threatening, then clearly his problem is with the overall design of the characters and whether they fit as major villains, not whether one of the four characters he complained about happens to be a woman.

Then why did he focus on her being a woman? His statement could not be clearer in its intent.

You are taking it too literally,Torishima was also the one who wanted a girl protagonist for dr. slump.

I wouldn't be surprised if the designs were a big contributing factor into Torishima's dislike of the Androids. They're really, really blegh and are a massive downgrade from basically every antagonist in the Freeza arc. 17 and 18 especially are boring personality and design wise.

[Marlowe89]

I think the worst thing that I wouldn't want to see, is Vegeta, Toppo and Dyspo get completely sidelined.

In Vegeta and Toppo's case, yeah, that would be bad. Those are characters that you absolutely can't fault the readers for being invested in, given how their significance was built up by the arc prior to the start of the tournament.

The last thing we need is Dragon Ball Heroes style introductions of supposedly major characters that end up feeling completely bereft of any kind of plotline. They need an appropriate send-off.

[prince212]

I’d like to see vegeta tasting jiren power ... last chapter ending suggested that jiren is gonna need a distraction, otherwise goku should be out in no time ... let’s see how the broly rush will influence the last moments of manga T.o.P , keep goku aside next chapter 40 to re-take the focus in Goku vs Jiren ch.41 seems the right decision

[RecolorSaiyan]

I’d like to see vegeta tasting jiren power ... last chapter ending suggested that jiren is gonna need a distraction, otherwise goku should be out in no time ... let’s see how the broly rush will influence the last moments of manga T.o.P , keep goku aside next chapter 40 to re-take the focus in Goku vs Jiren ch.41 seems the right decision

Freeza isn't doing anything atm while 17 and Vegeta are involved in their own fights. I could see Freeza doing some sneak attacks on Jiren and buying Goku time

[prince212]

I’d like to see vegeta tasting jiren power ... last chapter ending suggested that jiren is gonna need a distraction, otherwise goku should be out in no time ... let’s see how the broly rush will influence the last moments of manga T.o.P , keep goku aside next chapter 40 to re-take the focus in Goku vs Jiren ch.41 seems the right decision

Freeza isn't doing anything atm while 17 and Vegeta are involved in their own fights. I could see Freeza doing some sneak attacks on Jiren and buying Goku time

Right, my guess is next chapter starting with freeza buying time with jiren , 17 and vegeta beating dyspo and toppo somehow as the main contain of the chapter , finishing with vegeta facing jiren .

[LimitbreakerKrillin]

You know what I want to see? Somone actually die while fighting in the ToP, The anime touched upon this with 17 and Vegeta blowing themselves up, but decided to just say nah they are just faking it. I mean there is a lot in stake in this tournament, if they lose they lose big. So it wouldnt be out of place if people were willing to sacrfice themeselves or die of exhaustion just to save their universe. If the whole Vegeta giving his energy to Goku is in the outline, having him die from giving all of his remaining energy to his rival, would be a better "exit" for Vegeta, than just getting knocked off the arena.

[OhHiRenan]

You know what I want to see? Somone actually die while fighting in the ToP, The anime touched upon this with 17 and Vegeta blowing themselves up, but decided to just say nah they are just faking it. I mean there is a lot in stake in this tournament, if they lose they lose big. So it wouldnt be out of place if people were willing to sacrfice themeselves or die of exhaustion just to save their universe. If the whole Vegeta giving his energy to Goku is in the outline, having him die from giving all of his remaining energy to his rival, would be a better "exit" for Vegeta, than just getting knocked off the arena.

I think the manga will keep the ToP death free, but I’d also like to see someone die for real. The lack of rule breaking in general get like a missed opportunity for such a large scale tournament.

[dragon boss z]

Here's to hoping that next chapter is really nice.

Wonder what content will be covered?

Will Jiren vs Goku be the main focus, or will they also cover the elimination of Toppo and Dyspo.

I think the worst thing that I wouldn't want to see, is Vegeta, Toppo and Dyspo get completely sidelined.

I think they at least deserve something, considering how long they've stuck around. They don't need much for a proper exit, but I hope it they aren't simply knocked off in the same fashion everyone else was when Kale went on a rampage. That would be horribly anti-climatic.

This is my guess. The last chapter ended up with Goku on the ropes and everyone is fighting except Frieza, so Frieza will step in and save Goku. Right after that it will switch to Vegeta vs Topp and 17 vs Dyspo. I believe both of those fights will then finish. Frieza will probably end up getting beaten down by Jiren, and the chapter will end with Goku, Vegeta, and 17 vs Jiren.

[Noah]

I'm always thinking about how much hate Heroes would get (more than it already gets) if it had come up with shitty Golden Freeza and embarassing recolors. The what-if nowadays are more than just "We just gave him a new form" so you may want to pay more attention to what's really happening around you.

You really have to stop with these persecutory delusions regarding Heroes. Nobody really hate Heroes, hell I bet that less than 50% of the fan base have played the game or are tuned into other products related to it.

If Golden Freeza was introduced on it, sure people would dislike it, but it also would be amused, like the many SSJ3 that were introduced on the beginning and crazy absorptions like Baby Janemba and Super 18 (?) that came after. It's a side product, no one has to take it really serious.

Anyway you probably has short memory cause Golden Freeza was really hated back when was leaked on RoF thread, it took a time to people get used to it and many still think that this transformation along with SSJ Blue were the worst of the whole franchise.

[Xeztin]

I'm always thinking about how much hate Heroes would get (more than it already gets) if it had come up with shitty Golden Freeza and embarassing recolors. The what-if nowadays are more than just "We just gave him a new form" so you may want to pay more attention to what's really happening around you.

You really have to stop with these persecutory delusions regarding Heroes. Nobody really hate Heroes, hell I bet that less than 50% of the fan base have played the game or are tuned into other products related to it.

If Golden Freeza was introduced on it, sure people would dislike it, but it also would be amused, like the many SSJ3 that were introduced on the beginning and crazy absorptions like Baby Janemba and Super 18 (?) that came after. It's a side product, no one has to take it really serious.

Anyway you probably has short memory cause Golden Freeza was really hated back when was leaked on RoF thread, it took a time to people get used to it and many still think that this transformation along with SSJ Blue were the worst of the whole franchise.

Honestly RoF seemed more like a quick cash grab than anything. It felt like to me that they did not expect boG to be as a big of a hit as it was and they weren’t prepared for a sequel and they just got with Toriyama and put the movie together. They didn’t plan out SSJB and probably didn’t even name it or how it worked, Freeza felt like a villian to throw in the mix when you didn’t have the other universes mapped out or a thought of a new villian etc. They weren’t sure what to do about SSG or the original Blonde forms and things like that. Having said that the movie felt like a fighting filler to buy some time for the anime. Though I enjoyed it. They picked a popular villian and used Toriyama’s name while sporting a new SSJ form. Really thats all you need.