Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[ricky84]

Reminder that literally anyone can destroy planets at this point, so Beerus, Vegeta, Goku, or even Krillin could take care of all of the saiyans at once if it became a problem. Evil super saiyans also shouldn't be able to exist because of S-Cells, so I don't think any of this would happen.

Yeah well said. If the evil Universe 7 Saiyans were to act up anyone and their mother would put them in their place and them having access to SSJ wouldn't really fit with what we are told.

I’m actually agitated that you guys didn’t think I had enough sense to know just how outclassed the saiyans would be. That’s extremely common knowledge.

Instead of pointing out the obvious, I would’ve preferred that you all just assumed that a scenario was created in where the saiyans became a threat with their development. To think that Goku and Vegeta were the only two saiyans capable of reaching these levels (besides broly obviously) would be absurd. Surely there were at least a few saiyans that died who could’ve had more talent. You all somehow accepted Roshi (who would’ve been demolished by Raditz) becoming relevant despite the large power gap, but somehow it’s absurd to think that fellow saiyans couldn’t become a threat in the long run?

All it would take is Goku/Vegeta naively training saiyans, trying to get them up to speed with new developments, then bam. Ulterior motives of wanting to run the universe with new found strength. As we are finding out with Broly, what better challenge for a saiyan than a fellow saiyan?

I’m excited for the broly movie. I hope it opens the door to more in universe saiyans laying low and lingering around. I still find it hard to believe that there were only a handful of saiyans who weren’t on the planet when They were sending all these newborns to different planets to conquer them.

All saiyans have infinite potenial, so bringing back the U7 saiyans (without trying to redeem them) would be a major problem in the long run for the entire multiverse.

[Bergamo]

Broly is an evil saiyan yet is a super saiyan. Vegeta was still evil when he became a super saiyan, etc. There's also Cumber.

Toriyama never said you have to be a good person in order to become a super saiyan, only that being good/pure of heart is an advantage in unlocking it.

Vegeta was not evil when he unlocked Super Saiyan. He definitely had a lot of issues, but at that point he had already been introduced to Earth's gentle environment. There's really no point in bringing up non canon characters.

Vegeta was obviously still a villain before the 2nd half of the Buu arc (which is why he was still eligible for the Majin boost despite living peacefully on Earth for 7 years). Merely living on Earth doesn't make you good, if it did then there would be no villains on and/or from Earth (like nearly all of Early DB's villains and the Androids). Broly is canon now, and he's obviously an evil, raging SSJ.

Heroes, Xenoverse and similar material uses canon lore and information to create its characters and stories, so being non-canon isn't really a good argument.

and gentle =/= good.

Don't take it up with me, take it up with Toriyama. Vegeta was clearly changed enough by the start of the android saga.

[ricky84]

Vegeta was not evil when he unlocked Super Saiyan. He definitely had a lot of issues, but at that point he had already been introduced to Earth's gentle environment. There's really no point in bringing up non canon characters.

Vegeta was obviously still a villain before the 2nd half of the Buu arc (which is why he was still eligible for the Majin boost despite living peacefully on Earth for 7 years). Merely living on Earth doesn't make you good, if it did then there would be no villains on and/or from Earth (like nearly all of Early DB's villains and the Androids). Broly is canon now, and he's obviously an evil, raging SSJ.

Heroes, Xenoverse and similar material uses canon lore and information to create its characters and stories, so being non-canon isn't really a good argument.

and gentle =/= good.

Don't take it up with me, take it up with Toriyama. Vegeta was clearly changed enough by the start of the android saga.

He was just as evil as he was in the Saiyan and Namek arc. There is no way you can seriously say that Android/Cell arc Vegeta was a morally good person.

And no where did Toriyama say you need to be a good person to transform, only that good saiyans have an easier time unlocking it.

[PFM18]

Broly is an evil saiyan yet is a super saiyan. Vegeta was still evil when he became a super saiyan, etc. There's also Cumber.

Toriyama never said you have to be a good person in order to become a super saiyan, only that being good/pure of heart is an advantage in unlocking it.

Vegeta was not evil when he unlocked Super Saiyan. He definitely had a lot of issues, but at that point he had already been introduced to Earth's gentle environment. There's really no point in bringing up non canon characters.

Vegeta was obviously still a villain before the 2nd half of the Buu arc (which is why he was still eligible for the Majin boost despite living peacefully on Earth for 7 years). Merely living on Earth doesn't make you good, if it did then there would be no villains on and/or from Earth (like nearly all of Early DB's villains and the Androids). Broly is canon now, and he's obviously an evil, raging SSJ.

Heroes, Xenoverse and similar material uses canon lore and information to create its characters and stories, so being non-canon isn't really a good argument.

and gentle =/= good.

A villain?No, he was not a villain. A dick? Yeah probably. But he definitely wasn't a villain any time during or after he learned SSJ outside of the Majin Vegeta sequence.

Cumber does not exist in the continuity so he should not be considered. It is as simple as that.

All saiyans have infinite potenial, so bringing back the U7 saiyans (without trying to redeem them) would be a major problem in the long run for the entire multiverse.

"Limitless" in the sense that they can infinitely break their limits and reach new heights. This discrete value of "broken limits" can technically become infinite and in that sense their potential is infinite. In terms of conventional potential, it is absolute garbage. Hybrid Saiyans are superior and characters like Freeza and 17 have superior potential to Gohan and other hybrid Saiyans.

Reviving the Universe 7 saiyans would be absolutely no problem for the entire multiverse.

[ricky84]

Vegeta was not evil when he unlocked Super Saiyan. He definitely had a lot of issues, but at that point he had already been introduced to Earth's gentle environment. There's really no point in bringing up non canon characters.

Vegeta was obviously still a villain before the 2nd half of the Buu arc (which is why he was still eligible for the Majin boost despite living peacefully on Earth for 7 years). Merely living on Earth doesn't make you good, if it did then there would be no villains on and/or from Earth (like nearly all of Early DB's villains and the Androids). Broly is canon now, and he's obviously an evil, raging SSJ.

Heroes, Xenoverse and similar material uses canon lore and information to create its characters and stories, so being non-canon isn't really a good argument.

and gentle =/= good.

A villain?No, he was not a villain. A dick? Yeah probably. But he definitely wasn't a villain any time during or after he learned SSJ outside of the Majin Vegeta sequence.

Cumber does not exist in the continuity so he should not be considered. It is as simple as that.

He was still a villain at that point. He only decided to help the Z-crew in the Android arc because:

1) The Androids were out to kill him too (self-preservation).
2) He wanted to challenge them to test his power and for his saiyan battle lust. Which is why he let Cell become Perfect.
3) He wants to be the one to kill Goku, so he'd kill the Androids to prevent them from doing so instead of him.

All of this points to him still being a villain at the time.

[TheOne]

Yeah well said. If the evil Universe 7 Saiyans were to act up anyone and their mother would put them in their place and them having access to SSJ wouldn't really fit with what we are told.

I’m actually agitated that you guys didn’t think I had enough sense to know just how outclassed the saiyans would be. That’s extremely common knowledge.

Instead of pointing out the obvious, I would’ve preferred that you all just assumed that a scenario was created in where the saiyans became a threat with their development. To think that Goku and Vegeta were the only two saiyans capable of reaching these levels (besides broly obviously) would be absurd. Surely there were at least a few saiyans that died who could’ve had more talent. You all somehow accepted Roshi (who would’ve been demolished by Raditz) becoming relevant despite the large power gap, but somehow it’s absurd to think that fellow saiyans couldn’t become a threat in the long run?

All it would take is Goku/Vegeta naively training saiyans, trying to get them up to speed with new developments, then bam. Ulterior motives of wanting to run the universe with new found strength. As we are finding out with Broly, what better challenge for a saiyan than a fellow saiyan?

I’m excited for the broly movie. I hope it opens the door to more in universe saiyans laying low and lingering around. I still find it hard to believe that there were only a handful of saiyans who weren’t on the planet when They were sending all these newborns to different planets to conquer them.

All saiyans have infinite potenial, so bringing back the U7 saiyans (without trying to redeem them) would be a major problem in the long run for the entire multiverse.

Exactly. Not sure why nobody gets that. Aside from plot armor, the only reason Goku and Vegeta beat their enemies is due to their advantage of being saiyans. You take that advantage away by fighting other saiyans, you’ll have a more level playing field.

[ricky84]

Vegeta was not evil when he unlocked Super Saiyan. He definitely had a lot of issues, but at that point he had already been introduced to Earth's gentle environment. There's really no point in bringing up non canon characters.

Vegeta was obviously still a villain before the 2nd half of the Buu arc (which is why he was still eligible for the Majin boost despite living peacefully on Earth for 7 years). Merely living on Earth doesn't make you good, if it did then there would be no villains on and/or from Earth (like nearly all of Early DB's villains and the Androids). Broly is canon now, and he's obviously an evil, raging SSJ.

Heroes, Xenoverse and similar material uses canon lore and information to create its characters and stories, so being non-canon isn't really a good argument.

and gentle =/= good.

A villain?No, he was not a villain. A dick? Yeah probably. But he definitely wasn't a villain any time during or after he learned SSJ outside of the Majin Vegeta sequence.

Cumber does not exist in the continuity so he should not be considered. It is as simple as that.

All saiyans have infinite potenial, so bringing back the U7 saiyans (without trying to redeem them) would be a major problem in the long run for the entire multiverse.

"Limitless" in the sense that they can infinitely break their limits and reach new heights. This discrete value of "broken limits" can technically become infinite and in that sense their potential is infinite. In terms of conventional potential, it is absolute garbage. Hybrid Saiyans are superior and characters like Freeza and 17 have superior potential to Gohan and other hybrid Saiyans.

Reviving the Universe 7 saiyans would be absolutely no problem for the entire multiverse.

Yet the full blooded saiyans Goku, Vegeta and Broly are vastly superior to (and younger than) Freeza in power. There is no reason to assume the other full-blooded saiyans of both U7 & U6 couldn't reach Goku & Vegeta's heights in a similar amount of time as they did. They were the most feared race in the universe for a reason (just ask Freeza lol).

[ricky84]

Exactly. Not sure why nobody gets that. Aside from plot armor, the only reason Goku and Vegeta beat their enemies is due to their advantage of being saiyans. You take that advantage away by fighting other saiyans, you’ll have a more level playing field.

This is why Broly will most likely win against MUI Goku or SSB Gogeta in the movie. Broly's power seem to grow and adapt at a much faster pace than Goku's & Vegeta's.

[Sora Saiyan]

Hybrid Saiyans are superior and characters like Freeza and 17 have superior potential to Gohan and other hybrid Saiyans.

In Super, Gohans potential is much much higher than 17s and Freezas. He went from weaker than his level of power in the Buu arc to God level in a day. Give him a week of serious training, and put him with Whis at that, and it’s scary to think what he’d become.
Gohans potential, as with almost all the characters in Super, has increased many times greater than anything the original series established.

[FlpShimizu]

I understand that Power levels help you guys rationalize which characters can or can't beat someone, but by now It is pretty clear to me that the people behind Dragon Ball nowadays don't care nearly as much as you about the Power scaling.

[PFM18]

Hybrid Saiyans are superior and characters like Freeza and 17 have superior potential to Gohan and other hybrid Saiyans.

In Super, Gohans potential is much much higher than 17s and Freezas. He went from weaker than his level of power in the Buu arc to God level in a day. Give him a week of serious training, and put him with Whis at that, and it’s scary to think what he’d become.
Gohans potential, as with almost all the characters in Super, has increased many times greater than anything the original series established.

Well the power Gohan gained in that scene depends on how you interpreted it and it isn't quite as clear cut as you make it out to be. Now, Gohan has still trained for several years prior to becoming rusty in the Buu arc, to train for the 3 years from RoF to now, to then train in his Ultimate state to be somewhere in the ballpark of SSB. Freeza literally just trained for a couple months to reach that level and 17 did it without the help of a ritual performed by a God. That's something that Gohan can't lay claim to.

I’m excited for the broly movie. I hope it opens the door to more in universe saiyans laying low and lingering around. I still find it hard to believe that there were only a handful of saiyans who weren’t on the planet when They were sending all these newborns to different planets to conquer them.

Yeah it still is very strange that a race that goes and sends infants to conquer entire planets and is constantly going to planets pirating them, only had a couple of their members of the planet when it was destroyed.

[majinwarman]

Hybrid Saiyans are superior and characters like Freeza and 17 have superior potential to Gohan and other hybrid Saiyans.

In Super, Gohans potential is much much higher than 17s and Freezas. He went from weaker than his level of power in the Buu arc to God level in a day. Give him a week of serious training, and put him with Whis at that, and it’s scary to think what he’d become.
Gohans potential, as with almost all the characters in Super, has increased many times greater than anything the original series established.

Well the power Gohan gained in that scene depends on how you interpreted it and it isn't quite as clear cut as you make it out to be. Now, Gohan has still trained for several years prior to becoming rusty in the Buu arc, to train for the 3 years from RoF to now, to then train in his Ultimate state to be somewhere in the ballpark of SSB. Freeza literally just trained for a couple months to reach that level and 17 did it without the help of a ritual performed by a God. That's something that Gohan can't lay claim to.

I’m excited for the broly movie. I hope it opens the door to more in universe saiyans laying low and lingering around. I still find it hard to believe that there were only a handful of saiyans who weren’t on the planet when They were sending all these newborns to different planets to conquer them.

Yeah it still is very strange that a race that goes and sends infants to conquer entire planets and is constantly going to planets pirating them, only had a couple of their members of the planet when it was destroyed.

I'm interested in the new lore the movie could give us and I also want Broly to be well-written enough that I'm not bothered by him.

[ricky84]

Hybrid Saiyans are superior and characters like Freeza and 17 have superior potential to Gohan and other hybrid Saiyans.

In Super, Gohans potential is much much higher than 17s and Freezas. He went from weaker than his level of power in the Buu arc to God level in a day. Give him a week of serious training, and put him with Whis at that, and it’s scary to think what he’d become.
Gohans potential, as with almost all the characters in Super, has increased many times greater than anything the original series established.

Well the power Gohan gained in that scene depends on how you interpreted it and it isn't quite as clear cut as you make it out to be. Now, Gohan has still trained for several years prior to becoming rusty in the Buu arc, to train for the 3 years from RoF to now, to then train in his Ultimate state to be somewhere in the ballpark of SSB. Freeza literally just trained for a couple months to reach that level and 17 did it without the help of a ritual performed by a God. That's something that Gohan can't lay claim to.

I’m excited for the broly movie. I hope it opens the door to more in universe saiyans laying low and lingering around. I still find it hard to believe that there were only a handful of saiyans who weren’t on the planet when They were sending all these newborns to different planets to conquer them.

Yeah it still is very strange that a race that goes and sends infants to conquer entire planets and is constantly going to planets pirating them, only had a couple of their members of the planet when it was destroyed.

Gohan in the anime became SSB level just in just one day of training (without Whis or any ritual) after he re-unlocked his Ultimate form. Its pretty clear from there that his potential is greater than Freeza's and A17's. Manga Gohan is arguably an even better example, training for a year since BoG and being able to match SSJ1 Kefla in just his base form.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

In Super, Gohans potential is much much higher than 17s and Freezas. He went from weaker than his level of power in the Buu arc to God level in a day. Give him a week of serious training, and put him with Whis at that, and it’s scary to think what he’d become.
Gohans potential, as with almost all the characters in Super, has increased many times greater than anything the original series established.

Well the power Gohan gained in that scene depends on how you interpreted it and it isn't quite as clear cut as you make it out to be. Now, Gohan has still trained for several years prior to becoming rusty in the Buu arc, to train for the 3 years from RoF to now, to then train in his Ultimate state to be somewhere in the ballpark of SSB. Freeza literally just trained for a couple months to reach that level and 17 did it without the help of a ritual performed by a God. That's something that Gohan can't lay claim to.

I’m excited for the broly movie. I hope it opens the door to more in universe saiyans laying low and lingering around. I still find it hard to believe that there were only a handful of saiyans who weren’t on the planet when They were sending all these newborns to different planets to conquer them.

Yeah it still is very strange that a race that goes and sends infants to conquer entire planets and is constantly going to planets pirating them, only had a couple of their members of the planet when it was destroyed.

Gohan in the anime became SSB level just in just one day of training (without Whis or any ritual) after he re-unlocked his Ultimate form. Its pretty clear from there that his potential is greater than Freeza's and A17's. Manga Gohan is arguably an even better example, training for a year since BoG and being able to match SSJ1 Kefla in just his base form.

When? Last time I remember Goku completely whopped his ass and he even fainted.

[ricky84]

Well the power Gohan gained in that scene depends on how you interpreted it and it isn't quite as clear cut as you make it out to be. Now, Gohan has still trained for several years prior to becoming rusty in the Buu arc, to train for the 3 years from RoF to now, to then train in his Ultimate state to be somewhere in the ballpark of SSB. Freeza literally just trained for a couple months to reach that level and 17 did it without the help of a ritual performed by a God. That's something that Gohan can't lay claim to.


Yeah it still is very strange that a race that goes and sends infants to conquer entire planets and is constantly going to planets pirating them, only had a couple of their members of the planet when it was destroyed.

Gohan in the anime became SSB level just in just one day of training (without Whis or any ritual) after he re-unlocked his Ultimate form. Its pretty clear from there that his potential is greater than Freeza's and A17's. Manga Gohan is arguably an even better example, training for a year since BoG and being able to match SSJ1 Kefla in just his base form.

When? Last time I remember Goku completely whopped his ass and he even fainted.

Goku used SSBKKx? to knock out Gohan in the anime.

[Hawk9211]

In Super, Gohans potential is much much higher than 17s and Freezas. He went from weaker than his level of power in the Buu arc to God level in a day. Give him a week of serious training, and put him with Whis at that, and it’s scary to think what he’d become.
Gohans potential, as with almost all the characters in Super, has increased many times greater than anything the original series established.

Well the power Gohan gained in that scene depends on how you interpreted it and it isn't quite as clear cut as you make it out to be. Now, Gohan has still trained for several years prior to becoming rusty in the Buu arc, to train for the 3 years from RoF to now, to then train in his Ultimate state to be somewhere in the ballpark of SSB. Freeza literally just trained for a couple months to reach that level and 17 did it without the help of a ritual performed by a God. That's something that Gohan can't lay claim to.

I’m excited for the broly movie. I hope it opens the door to more in universe saiyans laying low and lingering around. I still find it hard to believe that there were only a handful of saiyans who weren’t on the planet when They were sending all these newborns to different planets to conquer them.

Yeah it still is very strange that a race that goes and sends infants to conquer entire planets and is constantly going to planets pirating them, only had a couple of their members of the planet when it was destroyed.

Gohan in the anime became SSB level just in just one day of training (without Whis or any ritual) after he re-unlocked his Ultimate form. Its pretty clear from there that his potential is greater than Freeza's and A17's. Manga Gohan is arguably an even better example, training for a year since BoG and being able to match SSJ1 Kefla in just his base form.

He was using his ultimate state.

[BlueBasilisk]

I’m excited for the broly movie. I hope it opens the door to more in universe saiyans laying low and lingering around. I still find it hard to believe that there were only a handful of saiyans who weren’t on the planet when They were sending all these newborns to different planets to conquer them.

Yeah it still is very strange that a race that goes and sends infants to conquer entire planets and is constantly going to planets pirating them, only had a couple of their members of the planet when it was destroyed.

Dragon Ball Minus explained that. When Frieza decided to destroy the planet he issued a recall order to all the Saiyans. That was one of the things that made Bardock suspicious. Vegeta, Nappa and Raditz just ignored it.

This also left the door open for more survivors. Kikono told Frieza that most of the Saiyans would be back within a month but they'd have to wait longer for all of them. Frieza didn't want to wait that long and pulled the trigger when the month was up.

[GT_Goten10]

GT as it is doesn't fit at all with Super but I'm pretty sure some of its elements (mostly Ssj4) will get rebooted like Broly is.

I always assumed that they'd end this modern run of DB by having most of it's events erased or something contrived like that. They made a whole deal about everything fitting with EOZ at first. Since they always danced around the subject of GT, I assumed they weren't quite ready to ignore that series, but I guess Super proved to be much more of a money-maker than anticipated, so who knows what they planning now.

Anyway, this is all speculation. If they do announce a new series at Jump Festa I hope it's for the summer season, too. That would indicate they had a lot more time to prepare and work on the episodes. Last time we got like two months warning in advance that a new series was starting,and we all know how that schedule went.

GT was thrown out of the window ever since Battle of the Gods: it was now impossible to reconcile Goku NEVER using his God form and impossible to reconcile 0 mentions/appearances of Beerus and Whis.

EOZ, on the other hand, actually makes MORE sense now that Goku has Ultra Instinct: ANYONE can achieve UI (since it is not a Saiyan-based transformation) and the idea of someone with infinite stamina like Uub mastering UI and becoming a rival excites Goku very much.

lol GT isn‘t COMPLETELY thrown out i mean it still lives on in Heroes,Dokkan,Xenoverse...even Yamamuro said at the time ROF came out that there will be a connection between GT&Super viewtopic.php?t=32494
& Even an Official Event like Tenkaichi Budosai(2017) placed GT&Super in the same continuity(Yes I know that GT as it is dosent fit with Super)

[Lord Frieza]

GT exists as much as any of the stuff not part of the manga dose. Toei makes money off of it to this day so they are never going to just dump it.

It like the movies can exist in it’s own little world apart from Super and they’ll never have to address the issue. Plus if they ever really, I mean REALLY, guntohead had to say anything, they just have to say “different timelines”.

Yes current Super is complete incompatible with GT, but both can exist and you can have ether one as your proffered continuation.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

You know what I'm wondering? What, if any, character development this film will have with regards to tying in with the End of Z.

Will Goku grow as a person in preparation for the arrival of Uub? And what of Vegeta and the others?