"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:30 am

What an absolutely outrageous and self-righteous tone. "Why was my video God's gift to Dragon Ball fans, and why is Toyotaro a disgrace to Art itself? Let's find out!"

Again, he does a fine job of showing that Toyotaro is worse than Toriyama, but that's about all this amounts to. Sure, his clean-up jobs look more clear, but it's easy to go in and polish something. That doesn't mean it was shit to begin with.

The bit at the end was especially absurd. He makes the point that aspiring manga artists should look to certain manga artists for inspiration. That is absolutely not what any great manga artist would tell you. They would tell you to want to become a straight up Artist first and foremost, and to take inspiration from real life rather than the manga you read. Toriyama has been explicit about criticizing this specific aspect of modern manga, and he attributes some of his success as a mangaka to the fact that he didn't/doesn't read much manga.

There's plenty to look up to regarding Toyotaro for getting into the industry. He gained notoriety online by putting out fan-content that resonated with people. He put his foot in the door at Shueisha and was assigned some small projects. He did so well that he was personally selected by Akira Toriyama to draw the sequel to his best-selling manga. Toyotaro's Super is selling well around the world. His manga is currently leading the official Dragon Ball story without an anime announcement in sight, showing he has the confidence of Shueisha to carry one of their most important IPs. He accomplished all of this as a self-taught artist who developed himself by repeatedly drawing what he loved. If TNM wants to talk about the human psyche (a little dramatic, but...fine), let's talk about how - despite all of Toyotaro's technical weaknesses as an artist - his work is overall still high enough quality to resonate in such a way.

Oh, and TNM used an image I actually edited highlighting anatomy...and not for the reason I intended.

....

I'll touch on the content of the newest chapter once we get the Viz translations.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:43 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hw41i-O2ps

Well this video was a good watch. What saddens me a bit is that Toyo can improve if he’s pushed more but there’s no one pushing him.

Toriyama has been approving everything Toyo has done which shows that either Tori cant see these problems or he’s too nice of a guy to really judge Toyo harder. And we know that Toyo has an actual editor but clearly they aren’t pushing him either since the same problems keep popping up in the manga.

So even with these problems, the fact that Toriyama, Toyo’s “hero” is ok with the mistakes Toyo’s manga has and it seems to be the same case with the editor, I fear Toyotaro will never be pushed to improve upon his work. And it would be a shame to have something as big as DB have a manga stay with these flaws.

I’d again suggest he get a more strict editor. Maybe someone who’s had “mangaka experience” but i doubt they’d do it.
This guy did some video '' fixing '' the anime? Just to know
Fix the anime is not popular ... burn n kill the manga it is .
Both of them have a gap to improve .
I found this next quote funny
Ajay wrote: The difference that's causing some visual discomfort for people is the the very prominent jaw and super prominent pointy nose. Tate once did the same thing in the middle of a cut, and that looked similarly off to people... though with good reason considering that episode was a rushed mess.
.
Check the image inside , there’s no good reason for that disgrace
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:51 am

batistabus wrote: There's plenty to look up to regarding Toyotaro for getting into the industry. He gained notoriety online by putting out fan-content that resonated with people. He put his foot in the door at Shueisha and was assigned some small projects. He did so well that he was personally selected by Akira Toriyama to draw the sequel to his best-selling manga. Toyotaro's Super is selling well around the world. His manga is currently leading the official Dragon Ball story without an anime announcement in sight, showing he has the confidence of Shueisha to carry one of their most important IPs. He accomplished all of this as a self-taught artist who developed himself by repeatedly drawing what he loved. If TNM wants to talk about the human psyche (a little dramatic, but...fine), let's talk about how - despite all of Toyotaro's technical weaknesses as an artist - his work is overall still high enough quality to resonate in such a way.
I think most mangakas are self-taught artists, drawing doujinshi is basically a rite of passage for future mangaka at this point. But I highly doubt Toyotarou has never ever taken a single lesson or course on basic drawing fundamentals, or has never practiced drawing basic human anatomy. Drawing manga requires so much effort and time, it's easy to become overlook some drawing errors you'd normally catch. I think he wastes his time drawing lots of unnecessary panels, but for the amount that he does draw, the overall quality is still pretty damn good.

Also, TNM sounds like a complete asshole. That last scene of him yelling at Toyo's avatar was just fucking disgusting and disrespectful. This is why I hate DB YouTubers in general and he seems like one of the worst.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lukmendes » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:33 am

Darkseid wrote:I dont really see the issue with the gun. It seems to be a Taser-like weapon. I mean yeah Goku and Vegeta are insanely powerful beings but does that give them immunity from something that seems to attack the nervous system? Or attacks designed not to hurt but to stun? Attacks that target their senses like Solar Flare? Immeasurable strength doesnt mean they are no longer biological creatures.

Additionally Goku clearly didnt anticipate such a weapon being used and you could handwave Vegeta´s inaction as him being stunned by Goku getting taken down. They simply didnt see any difficulty in beating the Patrolman up.

As for why not using it against Freeza: he is surrounded by an army of grunts most of the time and would probably kill any Patrolman on sight (i never read the Jaco Manga, is Freeza, his attitude toward the GP and such ever mentioned?)
To be fair, the biggest problem with that situation is Goku and Vegeta being off guard enough to be hit by that thing to begin with, they're super fast guys who have been training to react better, and some guy with a taser knocks both of them down, specialy Vegeta who saw it and should've been prepared for it? Come on lol.
Bergamo wrote:I guess that's a good point. I don't know why Toriyama would show Buu getting stronger just to show him getting weaker a few pages later, but I guess that's just how it is.
Always theorized that Toriyama showed that specificaly to make it clear that the Boo the characters will be dealing after is the one with no one else absorved, also to show that Fat Kaioshin isn't the only one he absorved.
Still, the strongest kai was beaten by kid buu, so Dai Kaioshin is automatically weaker than Buu Saga SS3 Goku.

Also, Kibito says that generations of Kais have tried to lift the Z sword but none could do it, so it can be assumed that the vast majority of Supreme Kais are weaker than SS1 Gohan.
Well, whatever the Kaioshins power level is, it's something between Piccolo and a weaker SS1 Gohan (Assuming Shin is still the weaker one), so they are significantly strong.
Cetra wrote:No it was not because it was not said because of King Piccolo but because of Radditz and to show that Piccolo himself was no longer of demonic nature. Radditz' soul was not lost. It was not said at the end of the Piccolo Daimaou saga. And when a plot explains souls are lost then I think them not being easily resurrected is very believable with the victims of Piccolo being ressurected being fishy.
Huh, my dumb mistake then, thought that was mentioned in DB just to make Goku more pissed.

Either way, I checked here, the way Kami talks about people killed by the Demon Clan is that their souls just don't go to Other World and they keep drifting around suffering, doesn't sound like anything that would prevent the dragon balls from bringing them back.
Noah wrote:But the point is: if they will extract Dai Kaioshin from Mr. Boo, don't that means the latter will cease to exist? Which means no Majuub in the future? :cry:
If the fat Kaioshin is removed then he'll be put back, since Fat Boo is still around by EoZ.

It's possible that they'll just try to make Boo use whatever power the fat Kaioshin has, so no need to try to remove him.
Rakurai wrote:Yeah I don't think it's gonna be a Saiyan. But at this point the most interesting parts of the series (to me at least) have always involved Saiyans and I'm only invested in Super for them if not for anything else.
Honestly feeling the opposite, I'm starting to get sick of saiyans, yeah, sure, it's DB so saiyans will always be around, but they could avoid villain saiyans at least...
The prisoner could have associations to the Demon Realm. I wouldn't put it past Toyo to involve them somehow given he loves SDBH, hell everyone in Japan prob does too. And I'd be on board for that 100%.
Canon Towa confirmed :p
PFM18 wrote:Wow, this is going to be a long month waiting for the next manga chapter and for the story to continue.

I hear rumblings of this wreaking of a Bojack reboot. Considering that Bojack was sealed up by the kais apparently and that is why the Kaioshin would be needed to learn more about his escape, the Bojack movie came out right after the Broly movie and was about how Bojack had broken free from his "prison." Also, of all this talk about the Galactic Patrol, Bojack's signature move was called Galactic Buster.

It's probably not going to happen, but there's a connection there and I hope they are wrong about it.
Isn't Anizala based on some movie villains? I say this because this villain could not be exactly a Canon Bojack, but someone based on him and possibly other villains, like, combining Bojack with Turles and Slug, of course, the villain could be something else entirely, but I'm just throwing the possibility out there.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:00 am

TheOne wrote:
BWri wrote:
TheMikado wrote: Basically every fight from here forwards will be only have tension “just because they want a fight”. Rather than there being any number of other ways to resolve things. Every arc just adds more and more to the pile of alternative ways different situations could have been resolved rather than feeling as desperate and universe endangering.
This or just make the cast more and more stupid as has been the trend. I think this started in Z, so I won't blame the new era for it even though there's so much PIS in the new content. If the cast wasn't stupid they would have crammed every broken training method they had in those two days prior to the ToP. I'm talking, sensu farming, gravity chamber, time chamber, kaioken for everyone who can learn it, IT for everyone, potential unlocks for everyone (they can do all this in the time chamber), and kikoho's and spirit bombs for everyone. Or even half of that. Not to mention you have Dende, Kabito, and Whis if there aren't any sensu's to farm. Team U7 should have steamrolled the competition until Jiren, then Jiren takes out most of the team.


That’s what really pissed me off about the ToP. If they really wanted to make everyone stronger, HAVE THEM TRAIN WITH WHIS. Or at least use the crap out of the HBTC. All these power scaling issues could’ve easily been solved by training with a dieties. I would’ve had a less of a problem with Roshis involvement if they would done something besides make it seem like he’s been able to keep up with everyone... They suck at their jobs honestly
Exactly! All off-screen powerups should have been completely unnecessary with a proper training montage. Instead of two days, give them a week, a month, anything but two days. Now any pedantic training can make you incredibly strong if you mean it enough, even Krillin's bowflex training seemed to have put him over Tien. And yeah, they should have shown Roshi re-training with Korin a loooooooong time ago to establish his power increase. Bulma could've upgraded the cyborgs or we could've seen 17's power growth first hand as he trained with the cast. So much potential here.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:59 am

I’m a little annoyed that Goku and Vegeta we’re paralyzed by a freaking pistol.

......what really annoys me is that they were speed blitz.

Now I don’t know who this bowl-cut powder puff is, but come on!

Just garbage.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:39 am

ssj3kakarot wrote:I’m a little annoyed that Goku and Vegeta we’re paralyzed by a freaking pistol.

......what really annoys me is that they were speed blitz.

Now I don’t know who this bowl-cut powder puff is, but come on!

Just garbage.
Sometimes we need to calm down on the power level crap in favor of the story. This is hardly a big deal

At this point I think they need to retcon EoZ. It already doesnt make sense with Bulma not having seen Goku in a long time by the time of EoZ, and there being no Beerus or Whis and neither of them are mentioned.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolyKale » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:23 am

Some of you guys are really underestimating the galactic patrollers... Merusu is the number 1 elite patrolman who is in charge of 104 districts and it's totally understandable that he can, at least, knock out Goku and Vegeta with a "tranquillizer gun".
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:39 am

BrolyKale wrote:Some of you guys are really underestimating the galactic patrollers... Merusu is the number 1 elite patrolman who is in charge of 104 districts and it's totally understandable that he can, at least, knock out Goku and Vegeta with a "tranquillizer gun".
Oh, wow, 104 districts? I didn't know it was that many. I thought it was just like 9 districts. And number one of the elite? Wow!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolyKale » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:46 am

Simere wrote:
BrolyKale wrote:Some of you guys are really underestimating the galactic patrollers... Merusu is the number 1 elite patrolman who is in charge of 104 districts and it's totally understandable that he can, at least, knock out Goku and Vegeta with a "tranquillizer gun".
Oh, wow, 104 districts? I didn't know it was that many. I thought it was just like 9 districts. And number one of the elite? Wow!
Yes, he is the number 1 elite, while Jako is only in charge of 3 districts :lol: https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1064152482094317568
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:51 am

Can someone pin point me the exact clear to this statement:

The Dragon Ball Super “comicalization” began in June 2015 as a promotional tie-in for the television series. I want to shut up some people who said that the manga is not a promotional manga. And who doubt Kanzenshuu for stating that. :problem:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:13 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Can someone pin point me the exact clear to this statement:

The Dragon Ball Super “comicalization” began in June 2015 as a promotional tie-in for the television series. I want to shut up some people who said that the manga is not a promotional manga. And who doubt Kanzenshuu for stating that. :problem:
It started off as a promotional manga, but it kinda got complicated later on (with the new original upcoming arc, Toriyama's constatnt involvement and Toyotaro's creative freedom), I don't think 2015 statements will shut anyone up anymore lol

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Son-Kakaroto » Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:33 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Can someone pin point me the exact clear to this statement:

The Dragon Ball Super “comicalization” began in June 2015 as a promotional tie-in for the television series. I want to shut up some people who said that the manga is not a promotional manga. And who doubt Kanzenshuu for stating that. :problem:
Yeah, I have seen that before, but the only sources I can find that back-up this sight is this website and some off-hand article. I'm very skeptical the manga purpose was just to promote the tv show then after a few months decided to diverge... but how could it have diverged if it was already ahead of the anime during that time? I think the manga started out as promo for the already out movies, but was always planned to be its own thing. Toyotaro said in an interview he is not involved with the anime in 2016, so how could he promo something he was never really apart of? And he works for shueisha, not toei. Basically, I think those articles are fake news. OOF, just called the part-owner's article fake news, I don't think you'll be seeing me for much longer....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolyKale » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:39 am

Freza translated the new arc :
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:08 am

Son-Kakaroto wrote:I don't think you'll be seeing me for much longer....
Why is that ? Anyway I think for my rewritten of Dragon Ball, I'll take more the Dragon Ball Super Anime as reference and enhance it by taking the good idea from the manga and the movies.

As for this new arc, december can't come any faster now :mrgreen:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:20 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:Can someone pin point me the exact clear to this statement:

The Dragon Ball Super “comicalization” began in June 2015 as a promotional tie-in for the television series. I want to shut up some people who said that the manga is not a promotional manga. And who doubt Kanzenshuu for stating that. :problem:
If your objective it is to reinforce an anime stance by downplaying the manga as a promotional tie-in, then I don't think anybody in this thread should help you.

It started off as a promotional tie-in, yes. But clearly it has evolved beyond that, with the different approaches in story-telling, Toriyama's involvement, & new manga arc irrespective of the film (which the manga is skipping over). It's not a promotional manga anymore, it's clearly its own thing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:57 am

BrolyKale wrote:Some of you guys are really underestimating the galactic patrollers... Merusu is the number 1 elite patrolman who is in charge of 104 districts and it's totally understandable that he can, at least, knock out Goku and Vegeta with a "tranquillizer gun".
No we aren't. We were left to believe Frieza was basically left unchecked in the entire universe. If Frieza was such a universal threat and they had these bad-ass Galatic Patrollers running around the entire time, why was Frieza or his low-level henchmen a threat in the first place? Especially in a Universe where there are only 28 planets with intelligent life to begin with...
PFM18 wrote:
ssj3kakarot wrote:I’m a little annoyed that Goku and Vegeta we’re paralyzed by a freaking pistol.

......what really annoys me is that they were speed blitz.

Now I don’t know who this bowl-cut powder puff is, but come on!

Just garbage.
Sometimes we need to calm down on the power level crap in favor of the story. This is hardly a big deal

At this point I think they need to retcon EoZ. It already doesnt make sense with Bulma not having seen Goku in a long time by the time of EoZ, and there being no Beerus or Whis and neither of them are mentioned.
Yeah, no we don't.

The pistol alone isn't a big deal, this is correct. It's just what this reveals mean for the greater story retroactively. Good, consistent stories over long periods of time don't just "happen". Any boob can write a story that lacks consistency. We've expected a certain level of consistency because that's what good story writing is. I think I will use TVtropes because this do a really good job of talking about literary elements.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Consistency
There are, roughly speaking, three kinds of consistency that a viewer expects from a story:

External Consistency: Consistency with the real world.
The fictional universe is Like Reality Unless Noted. Violations of external consistency are "unrealistic."

Genre Consistency: Consistency with other fictional works.
The fictional universe should behave like other works in its genre, unless specifically noted otherwise. Any fictional concepts, characters, or settings borrowed from other works should behave as they do in those works. Tropes are Played Straight. For example, a dragon is generally expected to be a flying reptilian creature that breathes fire; if it's different in your work, the differences should be pointed out before they start affecting the plot.

Internal Consistency: Consistency with itself.
Any rules, events, settings, or characters that have been established within the fictional work continue to exist and function as they did previously, unless otherwise indicated. If your work takes place in an Expanded Universe, you're generally expected to be consistent with the (non-expanded) Canon.

Consistency aids Willing Suspension of Disbelief, while violations of consistency may be jolting and unexpected, which can benefit both humor and drama. The viewer would be quite surprised to learn that in your universe, Hitler was a circus performer, dragons are scared of fire, and that the married couple no longer recognize each other in Act III. Generally, if a work is inconsistent, the viewer expects there to be a good reason for it. On the other hand, sometimes violations of consistency go unnoticed even if they're quite obvious, or may even be expected; e.g. The Coconut Effect violates External Consistency.

Often, a feature in a work is consistent at one level and not at another; for example, maybe your vampires glitter in sunlight, which is not genre consistent with other works featuring vampires, but as long as they always do that, it is internally consistent. If a work forgoes External Consistency in favor of Genre Consistency, you have The Coconut Effect. If conversely a work forgoes Genre Consistency in favor of External Consistency, then you have Reality Ensues.

Sometimes, as in the case of sequels, it can be unclear whether two works are distinct works or part of the same work, making the distinction between Genre Consistency and Internal Consistency a bit fuzzy.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolyKale » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:03 am

No we aren't. We were left to believe Frieza was basically left unchecked in the entire universe. If Frieza was such a universal threat and they had these bad-ass Galatic Patrollers running around the entire time, why was Frieza or his low-level henchmen a threat in the first place? Especially in a Universe where there are only 28 planets with intelligent life to begin with...
You go too much into details... because at that time Toriyama didn't think about creating the Galactic Patrol.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:12 am

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:
Son-Kakaroto wrote:I don't think you'll be seeing me for much longer....
Why is that ? Anyway I think for my rewritten of Dragon Ball, I'll take more the Dragon Ball Super Anime as reference and enhance it by taking the good idea from the manga and the movies.

As for this new arc, december can't come any faster now :mrgreen:
Back in an interview, Toyo said that he doesn’t;t work closely with the anime now but when he passes them, he’ll be working closer with the anime. And apparently back when Toyo was ahead before, the anime staff used some of his manga panels as storyboarding (which imo isn’t that good an idea since a lot of Toyo’s panels have kinda flat angles).

So my guess is that the anime will follow the exact same points as the manga except to keep the manga ahead, the anime will spend more time on each point than the manga does. The anime will expand upon stuff more.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by fexus » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:13 am

Oh wow, I thought the new arc would start of with a bang. Not a whimper. Really? Does Toyotaro really have to start of with something like this. Having the two characters that just fought Broly to get speed blitz and knocked out with a gun. Does the fight need to even happen actually? I'm pretty sure the Galactic King knows who Goku and Vegeta is. I'm really sure they can have Jaco do the talking and this fight wouldn't even happen. I'm absolutely sure that they must have known Goku, Vegeta and a couple more ridiculously strong fighters that are also understanding are on Earth. There is absolutely no reason for the situation to happen. Oh, I'm also sure we just went through an arc about letting your guard down. Why is this happening again actually? Also, why are you guys vehemently defending this like your life are at stake? You know you can criticize Toyotaro right?
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