PFM18 wrote:TheSaiyanGod wrote:This does not mean that Broly's power is bound to grow all the time. Look at Black in the anime, it was said that he got stronger after receiving blows, but that did not always happen, only at specific times.
Black had gained power from fighting/taking damage etc, but we never received any indication that his Saiyan gains had suddenly halted at some point. Broly is the same.
Not to mention that in the case of Broly this seems to have a limit, because after he managed to reach Vegeta SSJ, he was completely dominated by SSG and needed the Rage form, which also did not reach Goku Blue (forcing Freeza to kill Paragus).
This also did not happen against Gogeta, because SSJ Broly was forced to use SSJ Full Power and after Gogeta used the SSB, Broly was almost defeated
All that means is that his gains at that particular time weren't fast enough to catch up to SSG, or Gogeta's SSB or whatever the case may be. Goku and Vegeta can instantly jump into a new form magnitudes stronger than the previous, and Broly's gains can only do so much, so new forms of his own are simply needed.
In fact, we have no indication that Black's gains were constant, despite all that discourse about getting stronger after receiving damage (we saw this happening in specific cases where Black explicitly says he got stronger while raising his Ki and gains the upper hand in the fight).
The same for Broly, the fact that he gets stronger in some moments of the fight (which, as in Black's case, is explicitly said, and an example is the very fight against Vegeta base / SSJ) does not mean that he always had gains . Or at least, they were not really relevant gains. It seemed to me more that he was adapting to the fighting style of humans at the same time that he had a few gains, than actually getting much stronger
PFM18 wrote:emperior wrote:I updated my numbers. I wrongfully considered Broly’s Super Saiyan to stack onto his rage form, but as pointed out there’s no indication it does, not even in the sheets. Which means that now I will consider Broly’s green form to be the Oozaru power stacked upon Super Saiyan (which explains the different hair color and added mass).
I also fixed Gogeta to follow the usual multipliers.
Vegeta: 10
SSJ: 500
SSG: 10.000
SSB: 20.000
Goku: 10
SSJ: 500
SSG: 10.000
SSB: 20.000
Broly: 5, 10, 500, 600
Rage (10x): 6.000, 7.000 and so on until around 12.000 (new regular 1.200)
SSJ: 60.000 (50x of regular 1.200)
LSSJ: 600.000
Freeza: 10.000
Golden Freeza: 20.000
Gogeta: 1.500
SSJ: 75.000
SSB: 3.000.000
With these numbers it’s also shown how not even with their powers combined Goku and Vegeta could reach Broly’s power when they teamed up.
Well, I do disagree with the very conservative multipliers for SSG and SSB, but that's just your choice and it doesn't really explicitly contradict anything. However, it appeared to be clear that Base Gogeta>SSB Goku/Vegeta considering he was able to fairly easily dodge Broly's ki blasts and what not, while Goku and Vegeta individually as SSB's just got curbstomped.
I still think you did a good job though
I agree with that. SSB, for everything we saw during the ToP, really seems to be much stronger than the SSG. And the difference between SSG and SSJ forms is an abyss (though it is difficult to measure how much)
I also agree that Gogeta's base apparently was stronger than Goku / Vegeta SSB, considering he had no trouble keeping up with SSJ Broly's speed and easily bounced his Ki Blasts (though that was something Goku did, too, but he did not with so much ease)
EDIT: Sorry for the double post
