R1: goku/vegetaAvatarReiko wrote:Base Gotenks(Pre) vs SSJ2 Goku & SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu ARc)
SSJ Gogeta vs SSBKKx20 Goku & SBE Vegeta
R2: i can Give this to Ssj gogeta
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R1: goku/vegetaAvatarReiko wrote:Base Gotenks(Pre) vs SSJ2 Goku & SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu ARc)
SSJ Gogeta vs SSBKKx20 Goku & SBE Vegeta
1. I have Base Gotenks stronger than SSJ Goten and Trunks but weaker than SSJ Goku (I also have the multipliers for their fusion different, much smaller). Goku and Vegeta win here.AvatarReiko wrote:Base Gotenks(Pre) vs SSJ2 Goku & SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu ARc)
SSJ Gogeta vs SSBKKx20 Goku & SBE Vegeta
1. Goign with Moro due to his vast knowledge, magic, and his ability to throw around SSG Vegeta.Berserker1921 wrote:-New fights-
1. Moro (now) vs Buuhan?
2. Dr Wheelo vs Vegeta (saiyan saga)?
3. Garlic Jr (GJ saga) vs Third Form Frieza (namek)?
4. Ssjblue Copy Vegeta vs Hit (U6)? (No absorbing)
5. Dyspo vs Ssjgod Goku (BoG)?
6. Gogeta Blue (Black) vs GoD Toppo?
7. Sidra vs Ssjblue kkx10 Goku (ToP)?
8. Suppressed Jiren (109) vs suppressed Beerus (BoG)?
9. Jiren (70%) vs Champa?
10. GoD Toppo vs Corrupted M. Zamasu (no immortality)?
1.If it's anime Aniraza, then Aniraza wins unless Broly gets lucky and destroys his weak spot, if it's manga Aniraza then Broly stomps.ruler9871 wrote:1. Enraged Base Broly vs Aniraza
2. Final Form Freeza (DBS Broly) vs Present Zamasu
3. Enraged Vegeta (BoG) vs Buuhan
4. Krillin (ToP) vs Dabura
5. SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Normal SSB Goku (U6 arc)
And who is the strongest ToP contestant that SSJ1 Broly (DBS, not full power) could beat?
Based off the anime, Vegito stomps.AvatarReiko wrote:Base Vegito(Buu Saga) vs Super Buu
-team stomps due to having actual feats.dragonball0900 wrote:Here are other versus from Z.
Saiyan Arc Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu vs King Kai
Nappa (serious against Goku) vs M3 Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu
Namek Arc Gohan and Krillin (Post Guru) vs Saiyan Arc Vegeta
Namek Arc Gohan and Krillin (Post Guru) vs M3 Piccolo
M3 Piccolo, Namek Arc Gohan and Krillin (Post Guru) vs Namek Arc Vegeta (24K)
-Goku and Vegeta stomp. Ssj Gotenks would be a better fight.AvatarReiko wrote:Base Gotenks(Pre) vs SSJ2 Goku & SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu ARc)
SSJ Gogeta vs SSBKKx20 Goku & SBE Vegeta
Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.RecolorSaiyan wrote:I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.
His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza
I think Dyspo claps no diff
Yeah. Definitely somewhere in that ballpark if not more than thatRecolorSaiyan wrote:BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza
I think Dyspo claps no diff
dragon boss z wrote:Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.RecolorSaiyan wrote:I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.
His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza
I think Dyspo claps no diff
Well said!RecolorSaiyan wrote:dragon boss z wrote:Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.RecolorSaiyan wrote:I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.
His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza
I think Dyspo claps no diff
Goku absorbed the power of ssg into his ssj form in BoG , then after training with whis he got a bunch stronger and then his ssb which stacks on top of his base which was boosted absurdly was inferior to golden freeza in F let alone ToP version.
Dude, Goku & Vegeta's current bases are way stronger than BoG SSG Goku. So Golden Freeza even in RoF has to be at least like 100,000x stronger than BoG SSG Goku.dragon boss z wrote:Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.RecolorSaiyan wrote:I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.
His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza
I think Dyspo claps no diff
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Stop wanking, dude XDruler9871 wrote:Dude, Goku & Vegeta's current bases are way stronger than BoG SSG Goku. So Golden Freeza even in RoF has to be at least like 100,000x stronger than BoG SSG Goku.dragon boss z wrote:Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.RecolorSaiyan wrote:I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.
His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza
I think Dyspo claps no diff
Full Power Dyspo completely overwhelmed Golden Freeza in the ToP to the point that he needed Ultimate Gohan's help to break even. If it was a death match then Dyspo would easily slaughter Freeza, since his speed would allow him to attack his vitals before he could react.
RecolorSaiyan wrote: Goku absorbed the power of ssg into his ssj form in BoG , then after training with whis he got a bunch stronger and then his ssb which stacks on top of his base which was boosted absurdly was inferior to golden freeza in F let alone ToP version.
Goku got a major boost but his base did not become SSG level. If Goku were to go SSG again after the Beerus fight, it would have been almost exactly the same strength as before, not a thousand times stronger, as Goku and Beerus would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost. My point is even further proven how Toriyama originally said SSG was 60% Beerus, so by your guys logic Goku should have stomped Beerus the second he absorbed the god power and went into ssj or SSJ2.PFM18 wrote: Well said!
But yeah, after BoG, Goku's SSJ was ~SSG, and then obviously he achieved SSB on top of that already insane power, and then he got dramatically stronger training with Whis, let alone the rest of Super where he obviously improves too.
That's how you see things like, Goku fodderizing SSJ3 Gotenks, or being able to fight and entertain Beerus in Base, and able to casually fight Good Buu even after Goku is shocked at how much he had improved.
My response to the multiplier stuff is above.ruler9871 wrote:Dude, Goku & Vegeta's current bases are way stronger than BoG SSG Goku. So Golden Freeza even in RoF has to be at least like 100,000x stronger than BoG SSG Goku.dragon boss z wrote:Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.RecolorSaiyan wrote:I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.
His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza
I think Dyspo claps no diff
Full Power Dyspo completely overwhelmed Golden Freeza in the ToP to the point that he needed Ultimate Gohan's help to break even. If it was a death match then Dyspo would easily slaughter Freeza, since his speed would allow him to attack his vitals before he could react.
How is it wrong? The manga CONFIRMED SSB is less than 10x SSG. Any scaling beyond that relies on faulty logic or anime original scenes.p-hyvo wrote:
Stop wanking, dude XD
A x100'000 gap between bog and ROF is way too much. Maybe, with standard moults, you can say that rof's golden freezer is 75-80x goku god from bog highballing, not surely 100'000x.
On the other hand the other guy is doing the completely opposite thing, lowballing insanely.
Mh no, he's not lowballing : he's just wrong.
Manga ≠ animedragon boss z wrote:RecolorSaiyan wrote: Goku absorbed the power of ssg into his ssj form in BoG , then after training with whis he got a bunch stronger and then his ssb which stacks on top of his base which was boosted absurdly was inferior to golden freeza in F let alone ToP version.Goku got a major boost but his base did not become SSG level. If Goku were to go SSG again after the Beerus fight, it would have been almost exactly the same strength as before, not a thousand times stronger, as Goku and Beerus would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost. My point is even further proven how Toriyama originally said SSG was 60% Beerus, so by your guys logic Goku should have stomped Beerus the second he absorbed the god power and went into ssj or SSJ2.PFM18 wrote: Well said!
But yeah, after BoG, Goku's SSJ was ~SSG, and then obviously he achieved SSB on top of that already insane power, and then he got dramatically stronger training with Whis, let alone the rest of Super where he obviously improves too.
That's how you see things like, Goku fodderizing SSJ3 Gotenks, or being able to fight and entertain Beerus in Base, and able to casually fight Good Buu even after Goku is shocked at how much he had improved.My response to the multiplier stuff is above.ruler9871 wrote:Dude, Goku & Vegeta's current bases are way stronger than BoG SSG Goku. So Golden Freeza even in RoF has to be at least like 100,000x stronger than BoG SSG Goku.dragon boss z wrote: Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.
Full Power Dyspo completely overwhelmed Golden Freeza in the ToP to the point that he needed Ultimate Gohan's help to break even. If it was a death match then Dyspo would easily slaughter Freeza, since his speed would allow him to attack his vitals before he could react.
As for Dyspo and Frieza, Frieza wasn’t even going all out yet, when he was about to get knocked out he had a face like he was about to do something. He could logically just hold Dyspo in place with his telekinetic powers, and if he decides to nuke the planet there is nothing Dyspo can do to stop it.How is it wrong? The manga CONFIRMED SSB is less than 10x SSG. Any scaling beyond that relies on faulty logic or anime original scenes.p-hyvo wrote:
Stop wanking, dude XD
A x100'000 gap between bog and ROF is way too much. Maybe, with standard moults, you can say that rof's golden freezer is 75-80x goku god from bog highballing, not surely 100'000x.
On the other hand the other guy is doing the completely opposite thing, lowballing insanely.
Mh no, he's not lowballing : he's just wrong.
That’s head canon. Please show me where it was confirmed to be a 50x multiplier in the anime.p-hyvo wrote: Manga ≠ anime
Talking about the anime, thing that i was doing, it Is wrong . in the anime, ssb Is ssg x 50, no argue
1. Manga and Anime don't have the same power levels and plotting.dragon boss z wrote:That’s head canon. Please show me where it was confirmed to be a 50x multiplier in the anime.p-hyvo wrote: Manga ≠ anime
Talking about the anime, thing that i was doing, it Is wrong . in the anime, ssb Is ssg x 50, no argue
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Neither of the people you were quoting claimed this was the case in the first place.dragon boss z wrote:Goku got a major boost but his base did not become SSG level.
Not sure if you just strawmanned people or you misinterpreted them.If Goku were to go SSG again after the Beerus fight, it would have been almost exactly the same strength as before, not a thousand times stronger, as Goku and Beerus would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost.
Your point is proven by something that only applied to a movie that came out 6 years ago and was overwritten by an entire arc that replaced it? Are you sure that's proof?My point is even further proven how Toriyama originally said SSG was 60% Beerus, so by your guys logic Goku should have stomped Beerus the second he absorbed the god power and went into ssj or SSJ2.
I know, but that is the only official power statement we have between Blue and SSG.ruler9871 wrote: 1. Manga and Anime don't have the same power levels and plotting.
Ssj doesn't always have to be a 50x multiplier, and ssj Kefla beta kaioken SSB Goku, so no the gap wasn't really closed.2. Everything in the anime points to SSB being 50x SSG, since it's SSJ1 (which is 50x base) stacked on top of SSG. Goku's fight with Kefla is the biggest proof of this, since Base Kefla was much stronger than SSG Goku. Yet when Kefla goes SSJ1 and Goku goes SSB the gap shrinks a little bit, so that means SSB being 50x over SSG might even be a lowball.
I'm not saying he wasn't trying, but he couldn't use killing moves and he wasn't throwing supernovas like he was against Toppo. Dypso could absolutely not stop a full power death ball/supernova from Golden Frieza.3. Saying that Freeza was holding back against Dyspo is pure headcanon (where's your proof?). If he was then he wouldn't have needed Gohan's help at all.
He said base Goku was equal to SSG Goku and because of that SSB Goku and Golden Frieza were over 100,000 times stronger than SSG Goku, but you mentioned you saw that later below.PFM18 wrote:[
Neither of the people you were quoting claimed this was the case in the first place.
2. But that would imply Goku's ssj3>SSG which makes no sense.Not sure if you just strawmanned people or you misinterpreted them.
1. Nobody claimed that if Goku had gone SSG right afterwards he would have gotten thousands of times stronger. You are again, disputing a claim that was never made.
2. You have absolutely no idea if the SSG would have been stronger. Intuitively, his SSG should have been stronger, because SSJ was equal to his SSG from a moment's prior, and obviously, SSG>SSJ as a transformation.
3. They would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost? Goku didn't know hot to re-access SSG. What did you think Whis's training accomplished if he could already just used God Ki whenever he wanted?
Disclaimer: after looking at it, I think hundreds of thousands of times difference between BoG SSG and ToP Freeza is too big of a difference. I would put it as more of like twenty thousand or so.
1. My point was if the writers though it made sense then, they probably thought it made sense when they made it again. There is no logical reason Goku should have been able to automatically get stronger after losing the SSG form. He kept the power, but that's it, he could not surpass 100% SSG until after training.Your point is proven by something that only applied to a movie that came out 6 years ago and was overwritten by an entire arc that replaced it? Are you sure that's proof?
Ssj made base form Goku on Namek 50x stronger. That doesn't mean it always does it on all instances. You are basically telling me god ki is as easy to multiply as base ki, which is highly unlikely.Gogeta_Blue wrote:It's literally taking Super Saiyan God, then turning into a Super Saiyan on top of it. Why wouldn't it be 50x?
That means nothing.dragon boss z wrote:Ssj made base form Goku on Namek 50x stronger. That doesn't mean it always does it on all instances. You are basically telling me god ki is as easy to multiply as base ki, which is highly unlikely.Gogeta_Blue wrote:It's literally taking Super Saiyan God, then turning into a Super Saiyan on top of it. Why wouldn't it be 50x?
Not to mention ssj clearly wasn't a 50x multiplier for Goku and Vegeta in the Broly movie considering base Goku could tangle with someone who fought SSG Vegeta.
1. Multipliers are the same at all times. Its pure headcanon to assume otherwise.dragon boss z wrote: snip
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.