The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[p-hyvo]

Base Gotenks(Pre) vs SSJ2 Goku & SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu ARc)
SSJ Gogeta vs SSBKKx20 Goku & SBE Vegeta

R1: goku/vegeta
R2: i can Give this to Ssj gogeta

[dragonball0900]

Base Gotenks(Pre) vs SSJ2 Goku & SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu ARc)
SSJ Gogeta vs SSBKKx20 Goku & SBE Vegeta

1. I have Base Gotenks stronger than SSJ Goten and Trunks but weaker than SSJ Goku (I also have the multipliers for their fusion different, much smaller). Goku and Vegeta win here.

2. SBE Vegeta after his boost against Toppo would win easily. Before the boost, however, and alongside SSBKKX20 Goku, they both would fall short against SSJ Gogeta.

[dragon boss z]

-New fights-

1. Moro (now) vs Buuhan?
2. Dr Wheelo vs Vegeta (saiyan saga)?
3. Garlic Jr (GJ saga) vs Third Form Frieza (namek)?
4. Ssjblue Copy Vegeta vs Hit (U6)? (No absorbing)
5. Dyspo vs Ssjgod Goku (BoG)?
6. Gogeta Blue (Black) vs GoD Toppo?
7. Sidra vs Ssjblue kkx10 Goku (ToP)?
8. Suppressed Jiren (109) vs suppressed Beerus (BoG)?
9. Jiren (70%) vs Champa?
10. GoD Toppo vs Corrupted M. Zamasu (no immortality)?

1. Goign with Moro due to his vast knowledge, magic, and his ability to throw around SSG Vegeta.
2-4. Pass
5.Goku is probably stronger, so if it's a fight to the death I would go with him. His instant transmission could also help him against Dyspo's speed.
6.Gogeta
7. If Sidra is strong enough to fight with the other GoD like in the manga, I would go with him. Post ToP SSB kaikoken x20 Goku might have a chance.
8. Jiren, since he blocked a stronger SSG Goku's attacks with his finger.
9. Champa is a rival to Beerus so I think Jiren would probably need more than 70% of his power to win.
10. Could go either way, but I'll give it to Zamasu do to contending with SSB Vegito.

1. Enraged Base Broly vs Aniraza
2. Final Form Freeza (DBS Broly) vs Present Zamasu
3. Enraged Vegeta (BoG) vs Buuhan
4. Krillin (ToP) vs Dabura
5. SSG Goku (DBS Broly) vs Normal SSB Goku (U6 arc)

And who is the strongest ToP contestant that SSJ1 Broly (DBS, not full power) could beat?

1.If it's anime Aniraza, then Aniraza wins unless Broly gets lucky and destroys his weak spot, if it's manga Aniraza then Broly stomps.
2. Probably Frieza
3. Buuhan should win due to his regen, candy beam, absorption, and possibly more powerful.
4. Dabura stomps
5. Could go either way.

Even initial ssj Broly could beat everyone but UI Goku and Jiren.

Base Vegito(Buu Saga) vs Super Buu

Based off the anime, Vegito stomps.

Here are other versus from Z.

Saiyan Arc Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu vs King Kai
Nappa (serious against Goku) vs M3 Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu
Namek Arc Gohan and Krillin (Post Guru) vs Saiyan Arc Vegeta
Namek Arc Gohan and Krillin (Post Guru) vs M3 Piccolo
M3 Piccolo, Namek Arc Gohan and Krillin (Post Guru) vs Namek Arc Vegeta (24K)

-team stomps due to having actual feats.
-pass
-Vegeta wins due to being a hardened warrior and having his great ape form if needed.
-pass on the last two

Base Gotenks(Pre) vs SSJ2 Goku & SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu ARc)
SSJ Gogeta vs SSBKKx20 Goku & SBE Vegeta

-Goku and Vegeta stomp. Ssj Gotenks would be a better fight.
-Gogeta

[RecolorSaiyan]

I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.

His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza

I think Dyspo claps no diff

[dragon boss z]

I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.

His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza

I think Dyspo claps no diff

Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.

[PFM18]

BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza

I think Dyspo claps no diff

Yeah. Definitely somewhere in that ballpark if not more than that

[RecolorSaiyan]

I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.

His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza

I think Dyspo claps no diff

Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.

Goku absorbed the power of ssg into his ssj form in BoG , then after training with whis he got a bunch stronger and then his ssb which stacks on top of his base which was boosted absurdly was inferior to golden freeza in F let alone ToP version.

[PFM18]

I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.

His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza

I think Dyspo claps no diff

Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.

Goku absorbed the power of ssg into his ssj form in BoG , then after training with whis he got a bunch stronger and then his ssb which stacks on top of his base which was boosted absurdly was inferior to golden freeza in F let alone ToP version.

Well said!

But yeah, after BoG, Goku's SSJ was ~SSG, and then obviously he achieved SSB on top of that already insane power, and then he got dramatically stronger training with Whis, let alone the rest of Super where he obviously improves too.

That's how you see things like, Goku fodderizing SSJ3 Gotenks, or being able to fight and entertain Beerus in Base, and able to casually fight Good Buu even after Goku is shocked at how much he had improved.

[ruler9871]

I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.

His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza

I think Dyspo claps no diff

Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.

Dude, Goku & Vegeta's current bases are way stronger than BoG SSG Goku. So Golden Freeza even in RoF has to be at least like 100,000x stronger than BoG SSG Goku.

Full Power Dyspo completely overwhelmed Golden Freeza in the ToP to the point that he needed Ultimate Gohan's help to break even. If it was a death match then Dyspo would easily slaughter Freeza, since his speed would allow him to attack his vitals before he could react.

[p-hyvo]

I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.

His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza

I think Dyspo claps no diff

Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.

Dude, Goku & Vegeta's current bases are way stronger than BoG SSG Goku. So Golden Freeza even in RoF has to be at least like 100,000x stronger than BoG SSG Goku.

Full Power Dyspo completely overwhelmed Golden Freeza in the ToP to the point that he needed Ultimate Gohan's help to break even. If it was a death match then Dyspo would easily slaughter Freeza, since his speed would allow him to attack his vitals before he could react.

Stop wanking, dude XD
A x100'000 gap between bog and ROF is way too much. Maybe, with standard moults, you can say that rof's golden freezer is 75-80x goku god from bog highballing, not surely 100'000x.
On the other hand the other guy is doing the completely opposite thing, lowballing insanely.
Mh no, he's not lowballing : he's just wrong.

[dragon boss z]

Goku absorbed the power of ssg into his ssj form in BoG , then after training with whis he got a bunch stronger and then his ssb which stacks on top of his base which was boosted absurdly was inferior to golden freeza in F let alone ToP version.

Well said!

But yeah, after BoG, Goku's SSJ was ~SSG, and then obviously he achieved SSB on top of that already insane power, and then he got dramatically stronger training with Whis, let alone the rest of Super where he obviously improves too.

That's how you see things like, Goku fodderizing SSJ3 Gotenks, or being able to fight and entertain Beerus in Base, and able to casually fight Good Buu even after Goku is shocked at how much he had improved.

Goku got a major boost but his base did not become SSG level. If Goku were to go SSG again after the Beerus fight, it would have been almost exactly the same strength as before, not a thousand times stronger, as Goku and Beerus would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost. My point is even further proven how Toriyama originally said SSG was 60% Beerus, so by your guys logic Goku should have stomped Beerus the second he absorbed the god power and went into ssj or SSJ2.

I'm shocked so many people think ssg goku (BoG) has a chance against Dyspo.

His episode 104 ssg self in the ToP was no match against base dyspo speed and slsm dyspo was too fast for even golden freeza. BoG ssg goku is hundreds to thousands of times weaker than golden freeza

I think Dyspo claps no diff

Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.

Dude, Goku & Vegeta's current bases are way stronger than BoG SSG Goku. So Golden Freeza even in RoF has to be at least like 100,000x stronger than BoG SSG Goku.

Full Power Dyspo completely overwhelmed Golden Freeza in the ToP to the point that he needed Ultimate Gohan's help to break even. If it was a death match then Dyspo would easily slaughter Freeza, since his speed would allow him to attack his vitals before he could react.

My response to the multiplier stuff is above.
As for Dyspo and Frieza, Frieza wasn’t even going all out yet, when he was about to get knocked out he had a face like he was about to do something. He could logically just hold Dyspo in place with his telekinetic powers, and if he decides to nuke the planet there is nothing Dyspo can do to stop it.

Stop wanking, dude XD
A x100'000 gap between bog and ROF is way too much. Maybe, with standard moults, you can say that rof's golden freezer is 75-80x goku god from bog highballing, not surely 100'000x.
On the other hand the other guy is doing the completely opposite thing, lowballing insanely.
Mh no, he's not lowballing : he's just wrong.

How is it wrong? The manga CONFIRMED SSB is less than 10x SSG. Any scaling beyond that relies on faulty logic or anime original scenes.

[p-hyvo]

Goku absorbed the power of ssg into his ssj form in BoG , then after training with whis he got a bunch stronger and then his ssb which stacks on top of his base which was boosted absurdly was inferior to golden freeza in F let alone ToP version.

Well said!

But yeah, after BoG, Goku's SSJ was ~SSG, and then obviously he achieved SSB on top of that already insane power, and then he got dramatically stronger training with Whis, let alone the rest of Super where he obviously improves too.

That's how you see things like, Goku fodderizing SSJ3 Gotenks, or being able to fight and entertain Beerus in Base, and able to casually fight Good Buu even after Goku is shocked at how much he had improved.

Goku got a major boost but his base did not become SSG level. If Goku were to go SSG again after the Beerus fight, it would have been almost exactly the same strength as before, not a thousand times stronger, as Goku and Beerus would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost. My point is even further proven how Toriyama originally said SSG was 60% Beerus, so by your guys logic Goku should have stomped Beerus the second he absorbed the god power and went into ssj or SSJ2.

Where are you getting that? Golden Frieza isn't more than 10-20x times stronger than BoG SSG Goku imo. And Dypso would have stood no chance against Frieza in a fight to the death. All he would have had to do is make a giant explosion he can't dodge.

Dude, Goku & Vegeta's current bases are way stronger than BoG SSG Goku. So Golden Freeza even in RoF has to be at least like 100,000x stronger than BoG SSG Goku.

Full Power Dyspo completely overwhelmed Golden Freeza in the ToP to the point that he needed Ultimate Gohan's help to break even. If it was a death match then Dyspo would easily slaughter Freeza, since his speed would allow him to attack his vitals before he could react.

My response to the multiplier stuff is above.
As for Dyspo and Frieza, Frieza wasn’t even going all out yet, when he was about to get knocked out he had a face like he was about to do something. He could logically just hold Dyspo in place with his telekinetic powers, and if he decides to nuke the planet there is nothing Dyspo can do to stop it.

Stop wanking, dude XD
A x100'000 gap between bog and ROF is way too much. Maybe, with standard moults, you can say that rof's golden freezer is 75-80x goku god from bog highballing, not surely 100'000x.
On the other hand the other guy is doing the completely opposite thing, lowballing insanely.
Mh no, he's not lowballing : he's just wrong.

How is it wrong? The manga CONFIRMED SSB is less than 10x SSG. Any scaling beyond that relies on faulty logic or anime original scenes.

Manga ≠ anime
Talking about the anime, thing that i was doing, it Is wrong . in the anime, ssb Is ssg x 50, no argue

[dragon boss z]

Manga ≠ anime
Talking about the anime, thing that i was doing, it Is wrong . in the anime, ssb Is ssg x 50, no argue

That’s head canon. Please show me where it was confirmed to be a 50x multiplier in the anime.

[Gogeta_Blue]

It's literally taking Super Saiyan God, then turning into a Super Saiyan on top of it. Why wouldn't it be 50x?

And even if Regular SSJB in the manga is <10x, it's an incomplete transformation. Perfected SSJB is the true version that utilizes all of its power, which was shown to be a massive increase. That could easily cover the rest.

The anime merely has SSJB with no bells or whistles, then the separate SSJBE. There's nothing that says it can't be 50x.

[ruler9871]

Manga ≠ anime
Talking about the anime, thing that i was doing, it Is wrong . in the anime, ssb Is ssg x 50, no argue

That’s head canon. Please show me where it was confirmed to be a 50x multiplier in the anime.

1. Manga and Anime don't have the same power levels and plotting.

2. Everything in the anime points to SSB being 50x SSG, since it's SSJ1 (which is 50x base) stacked on top of SSG. Goku's fight with Kefla is the biggest proof of this, since Base Kefla was much stronger than SSG Goku. Yet when Kefla goes SSJ1 and Goku goes SSB the gap shrinks a little bit, so that means SSB being 50x over SSG might even be a lowball.

3. Saying that Freeza was holding back against Dyspo is pure headcanon (where's your proof?). If he was then he wouldn't have needed Gohan's help at all.

[PFM18]

Goku got a major boost but his base did not become SSG level.

Neither of the people you were quoting claimed this was the case in the first place.

If Goku were to go SSG again after the Beerus fight, it would have been almost exactly the same strength as before, not a thousand times stronger, as Goku and Beerus would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost.

Not sure if you just strawmanned people or you misinterpreted them.

1. Nobody claimed that if Goku had gone SSG right afterwards he would have gotten thousands of times stronger. You are again, disputing a claim that was never made.
2. You have absolutely no idea if the SSG would have been stronger. Intuitively, his SSG should have been stronger, because SSJ was equal to his SSG from a moment's prior, and obviously, SSG>SSJ as a transformation.
3. They would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost? Goku didn't know hot to re-access SSG. What did you think Whis's training accomplished if he could already just used God Ki whenever he wanted?

Disclaimer: after looking at it, I think hundreds of thousands of times difference between BoG SSG and ToP Freeza is too big of a difference. I would put it as more of like twenty thousand or so.

My point is even further proven how Toriyama originally said SSG was 60% Beerus, so by your guys logic Goku should have stomped Beerus the second he absorbed the god power and went into ssj or SSJ2.

Your point is proven by something that only applied to a movie that came out 6 years ago and was overwritten by an entire arc that replaced it? Are you sure that's proof?

[dragon boss z]

1. Manga and Anime don't have the same power levels and plotting.

I know, but that is the only official power statement we have between Blue and SSG.

2. Everything in the anime points to SSB being 50x SSG, since it's SSJ1 (which is 50x base) stacked on top of SSG. Goku's fight with Kefla is the biggest proof of this, since Base Kefla was much stronger than SSG Goku. Yet when Kefla goes SSJ1 and Goku goes SSB the gap shrinks a little bit, so that means SSB being 50x over SSG might even be a lowball.

Ssj doesn't always have to be a 50x multiplier, and ssj Kefla beta kaioken SSB Goku, so no the gap wasn't really closed.

3. Saying that Freeza was holding back against Dyspo is pure headcanon (where's your proof?). If he was then he wouldn't have needed Gohan's help at all.

I'm not saying he wasn't trying, but he couldn't use killing moves and he wasn't throwing supernovas like he was against Toppo. Dypso could absolutely not stop a full power death ball/supernova from Golden Frieza.

[
Neither of the people you were quoting claimed this was the case in the first place.

He said base Goku was equal to SSG Goku and because of that SSB Goku and Golden Frieza were over 100,000 times stronger than SSG Goku, but you mentioned you saw that later below.

Not sure if you just strawmanned people or you misinterpreted them.

1. Nobody claimed that if Goku had gone SSG right afterwards he would have gotten thousands of times stronger. You are again, disputing a claim that was never made.
2. You have absolutely no idea if the SSG would have been stronger. Intuitively, his SSG should have been stronger, because SSJ was equal to his SSG from a moment's prior, and obviously, SSG>SSJ as a transformation.
3. They would have instantly had a rematch due to the massive boost? Goku didn't know hot to re-access SSG. What did you think Whis's training accomplished if he could already just used God Ki whenever he wanted?

Disclaimer: after looking at it, I think hundreds of thousands of times difference between BoG SSG and ToP Freeza is too big of a difference. I would put it as more of like twenty thousand or so.

2. But that would imply Goku's ssj3>SSG which makes no sense.
3. He still had the six good hearted saiyans on Earth, so they literally could have just done the ritual again, no need for Whis training, lol.

Your point is proven by something that only applied to a movie that came out 6 years ago and was overwritten by an entire arc that replaced it? Are you sure that's proof?

1. My point was if the writers though it made sense then, they probably thought it made sense when they made it again. There is no logical reason Goku should have been able to automatically get stronger after losing the SSG form. He kept the power, but that's it, he could not surpass 100% SSG until after training.
2. BoG wasn't retconned, it just isn't the anime versions of the events. If anything it's actually more canon to the original manga than the anime version of the arc.

So basically what I'm saying is lets say if SSG Goku was a 6, and suppressed Beerus was a 7, when Goku dropped to ssj it would have maybe been like a 5, and going ssj3 could have possibly squeezed him back up to 6 but it would be a waist of energy so there would have been no point to transform. Then one of two things could have happened. His ssj being that strong could have been somewhat temporary, and after recovering from the fight he would need ssj3 to reach a 5/6, or two his ssj stayed a 5, but he needed some training to get used to the power so he could properly access ssj2 and ssj3 which would be a 10 and 40 respectively, but his body wouldn't be ready for those kinds of powers until more training. As Beerus said, his body learned from the experience and could access the SSG power, but he wouldn't be able to just pass it without training.
If we accepted the second option, which is more along the lines of what you are saying, then after training with Whis, Goku's new ssj3 would be at least 8x SSG, and lets say his new SSG would be at least 10x ssj, and SSB 5x SSB, so 50x ssj. So basically if Goku didn't get stronger at all I would think RoF SSB is 50x SSG in the BoG arc. But that just doesn't seem like what the story is going for imo. SSG Goku should still be somewhat relative to Golden Frieza in the RoF arc. I think he would be stomped pretty badly, but it's not like comparing Krilling to Frieza for example.

[dragon boss z]

It's literally taking Super Saiyan God, then turning into a Super Saiyan on top of it. Why wouldn't it be 50x?

Ssj made base form Goku on Namek 50x stronger. That doesn't mean it always does it on all instances. You are basically telling me god ki is as easy to multiply as base ki, which is highly unlikely.
Not to mention ssj clearly wasn't a 50x multiplier for Goku and Vegeta in the Broly movie considering base Goku could tangle with someone who fought SSG Vegeta.

[p-hyvo]

It's literally taking Super Saiyan God, then turning into a Super Saiyan on top of it. Why wouldn't it be 50x?

Ssj made base form Goku on Namek 50x stronger. That doesn't mean it always does it on all instances. You are basically telling me god ki is as easy to multiply as base ki, which is highly unlikely.
Not to mention ssj clearly wasn't a 50x multiplier for Goku and Vegeta in the Broly movie considering base Goku could tangle with someone who fought SSG Vegeta.

That means nothing.
Exactly like when he faced hit, goku saw the fight between broly and Vegeta, and simply adapted to broly's movements.
Your point proves nothing.
Plus, whatever the ssj multiplier is, ssb is god times that multiplier In the anime, and the proof of that has already been exposed there previously.
Stop imposing your broken headcanon

[ruler9871]

snip

1. Multipliers are the same at all times. Its pure headcanon to assume otherwise.

2. SSB Goku was able to put up a better fight against SSJ1 Kefla than SSG Goku did against Base Kefla. That right there is evidence of a 50x boost over SSG on the anime. And the "Goku was fatigued" argument has been debunked several times already.

3. The newer Transformations of Super don't have the same power and boost between anime and manga. The biggest example is SSJ Rose. In the anime its only as strong as SSJ1 (on top of Goku Black's extremely powerful Base), while in the manga it's equal to normal SSB (and Black's base there is only equal to Goku's).