Viz's Print Edition of the "Full Colour Comics" Discussion

[KBABZ]

Yes, it actually takes less time to learn an entire foreign language and just read the originals than it does waiting for Viz to continue publishing these.

We need this recorded for the record books and held up to ViZ to put their A into G!

[Hyena_Yamcha]

Man, has there really been no updates on these?

I really wanted those DB full color english editions too...

Haven't read any updates from Viz.

Well, if you know Spanish then you can order it from Amazon.es, as they've completed their release, iirc. Either that or wait until 2040 and we might get it all in English.

Including Dragonball ?!

[JohnnyCashKami]

Including Dragonball ?!

Yes, includes Dragon Ball, too. One of the volumes below, as example:



https://www.amazon.es/Dragon-Color-Orig ... 491467076/

My God, this cover is brutal and doubt Viz would dare to use it themselves (because.. think of the children!).

[jrdemr]

Yes, includes Dragon Ball, too.

If I'm not mistaken, the Spanish edition is the same size as the Japanese one, right (i.e. tankoubon-sized)? Only the Viz edition got bumped up to Shonen Jump-size, if I have it right.

[Char Aznable]

So it seems like this is effectively cancelled, that's a shame but glad I didn't start buying it. What's the best way to own the manga in English with the least (preferably none at all) censoring and no stupid translations (like 'Hercule') to roll my eyes at?

[JohnnyCashKami]

Yes, includes Dragon Ball, too.

If I'm not mistaken, the Spanish edition is the same size as the Japanese one, right (i.e. tankoubon-sized)? Only the Viz edition got bumped up to Shonen Jump-size, if I have it right.

Um, yeah, looks so.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm_Nff9ZbF0

The only reason I've not bought the Spanish Full Color version is because they're all €12 each and in that case, then I just might visit Spain/Andorra sooner or later and buy them from a store instead.

Viz Media's Full Color are a lot nicer in that they're far bigger and the pages have premium-built quality (unlike the 3-in-1) but it is partly censored and no one knows if or when it'll be finished. Mr. Popo looks really weird without his lips.

[jrdemr]

So it seems like this is effectively cancelled, that's a shame but glad I didn't start buying it. What's the best way to own the manga in English with the least (preferably none at all) censoring and no stupid translations (like 'Hercule') to roll my eyes at?

The Full Color Edition would have been the best had they bothered to actually finish up all of it, but next to that would be the Vizbig edition. The pages are big and glossy and you even have most of the color pages (though not all of them, for some reason). Do be aware, though, they do have some censorship like Bulma's tatas, gun violence (future 17's and the one from those guys that nearly killed Boo's dog) and obviously, Mr. Popo.

The 3-in-1's have better covers and less censorship (I believe only Popo remains censored), but the print quality is so bad, you're better off just skipping it and never looking back.

Do be aware that all English editions have "Hercule" and "Djinn Boo".

Um, yeah, looks so.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm_Nff9ZbF0

The only reason I've not bought the Spanish Full Color version is because they're all €12 each and in that case, then I just might visit Spain/Andorra sooner or later and buy them from a store instead.

Viz Media's Full Color are a lot nicer in that they're far bigger and the pages have premium-built quality (unlike the 3-in-1) but it is partly censored and no one knows if or when it'll be finished. Mr. Popo looks really weird without his lips.

Yeah, I also really liked the Viz Full Colors. Since it's an edition that emphasizes the artwork, the bigger size really worked wonders for it. Shame about Mr. Popo and the keeping of the old translation, though. If there's a Viz series that desperately needed a retranslation, it's Dragon Ball. If they'd continued, we'd most likely still get crap like "Hercule", "Djinn Boo" and "Vegerot".

[KBABZ]

Yeah, I also really liked the Viz Full Colors. Since it's an edition that emphasizes the artwork, the bigger size really worked wonders for it.

I like the Full Colours so much I'm happy to have them even incomplete, they look THAT good! They're also, as far as I'm aware, the ONLY way to buy the manga in the original Shonen Jump size outside of the Digest Editions, which you'd think would be a bigger deal around here!

[jrdemr]

I like the Full Colours so much I'm happy to have them even incomplete, they look THAT good! They're also, as far as I'm aware, the ONLY way to buy the manga in the original Shonen Jump size outside of the Digest Editions, which you'd think would be a bigger deal around here!

When I was further back in my reading of the Full Color edition in Japanese and just about to end the Piccolo Daimao arc, I seriously considered reading the Saiyan and Namek arcs in English just to be able to appreciate the bigger artwork and then coming back to the Japanese edition with the Android arc... but then I reminded myself that I was also doing this as a way to increase my reading speed before taking the JLPT N2 back in December, so I just kept reading the whole thing through in Japanese.

(But yes, they're that good, even incomplete)

[KBABZ]

I like the Full Colours so much I'm happy to have them even incomplete, they look THAT good! They're also, as far as I'm aware, the ONLY way to buy the manga in the original Shonen Jump size outside of the Digest Editions, which you'd think would be a bigger deal around here!

When I was further back in my reading of the Full Color edition in Japanese and just about to end the Piccolo Daimao arc, I seriously considered reading the Saiyan and Namek arcs in English just to be able to appreciate the bigger artwork and then coming back to the Japanese edition with the Android arc... but then I reminded myself that I was also doing this as a way to increase my reading speed before taking the JLPT N2 back in December, so I just kept reading the whole thing through in Japanese.

(But yes, they're that good, even incomplete)

The art just looks so good at that size, it's like an art book with a story!

[jrdemr]

The art just looks so good at that size, it's like an art book with a story!

Wholeheartedly agree, hence me being so distraught at its premature cancellation.

I mean, the Japanese edition is fine and all... but at tankoubon size, it's just not the same.

Viz effectively just ruined my standards for good print editions.

[Fizzer]

Damn, these were an amazing release that I was really looking forward to buying in its entirety. The size and quality of the pages makes the art look amazing. It's also the only release of the manga that my partner is actually able to read, due to the size.

[Robo4900]

So it seems like this is effectively cancelled, that's a shame but glad I didn't start buying it.

Damn, these were an amazing release that I was really looking forward to buying in its entirety. The size and quality of the pages makes the art look amazing. It's also the only release of the manga that my partner is actually able to read, due to the size.

Full Colour is not cancelled.

The problem appears to be that Shueisha licenses each arc to Viz individually, and are continually dragging their feet in the negotiations; either that, or Viz and Shueisha are generally butting heads over certain things in regards to the release.

Viz have repeatedly stated variations of "Full Colour is not cancelled! We have to negotiate each arc separately, so it takes time." over the past two years whenever asked about this.

So... It's not cancelled, but like Half-Life 3, you're going to be waiting a while.

What's the best way to own the manga in English with the least (preferably none at all) censoring and no stupid translations (like 'Hercule') to roll my eyes at?

The Full Color Edition would have been the best had they bothered to actually finish up all of it, but next to that would be the Vizbig edition. The pages are big and glossy and you even have most of the color pages (though not all of them, for some reason). Do be aware, though, they do have some censorship like Bulma's tatas, gun violence (future 17's and the one from those guys that nearly killed Boo's dog) and obviously, Mr. Popo.

People somewhat overstate the censorship on the VizBigs; they're only slightly more censored than the least-censored releases, and really they aren't any more censored than the average.
The VizBigs really are ultimately the best way to go; not only do you get the entire 519-chapter run (remember, even if Full Colour goes into Cell and Boo, we'll still be missing Boyhood and Piccolo; those could take a few years to license, given Boyhood is much longer than the other arcs since they lumped the entire pre-Piccolo period into one big "Boyhood arc"), but you get tons of it in colour, the print is nice, the books are quite large so the artwork really pops... It's nice.

The 3-in-1's have better covers and less censorship (I believe only Popo remains censored), but the print quality is so bad, you're better off just skipping it and never looking back.

The first 3-in-1 is uncensored, and I think a couple after that are too, but as I'm given to understand it, the vast majority of 3-in-1s are just as censored as any other release, and the stuff that's rendered uncensored is usually only the visuals, with the dialogue still being toned down.
People say "The 3-in-1s are uncensored" because it says so on the back of the books, and admittedly they are probably the least-censored release, but there's really nothing between the least-censored and most-censored releases.

But, I would counter your assertion about the print quality and skipping it; I've spoken against these in the past, but I flicked through a few of them in a comic book shop recently, and honestly I couldn't fault them as a budget release. If you can pick them up for fairly cheap, they're nicely-sized -- small enough to carry in your hands nicely and not take up too much shelf space, but big enough that the artwork is still very nicely-rendered -- and the print quality issues people talk about are rather heavily overblown.
If you're expecting VizBig print quality, you're going to be very disappointed, but if you're expecting something akin to the individual volumes, you'll find that while the pages are thinner, thus there's a tiny bit of bleed in a page or two if you're reading under a bright light, and if you don't read with care, you might rip the pages (unlikely unless you're a really rough reader), but... If you're looking to pick up the Dragon Ball manga for a good price, and you don't mind reading in black and white, this is a perfectly solid release.

The VizBigs are still better, but price is a big consideration; the VizBigs are out of print IIRC, so prices can vary wildly, and so if you're looking for a good deal, it could take you some time to collect it all, meanwhile the 3-in-1s are always pretty reasonably priced.

Of course, there is the third option of just buying the volumes digitally on Kindle or something; means you have to read them on a PC, a tablet, or -- if you're insane -- a phone, but it's a very convenient way to own it, you'll get no print issues, and it takes up no shelf space. Though this route is usually more expensive than either the VizBigs or the 3-in-1s; maybe see if Amazon do a really great sale on this.

If you're looking to read for cheap, though, the best way is to just pick up a Shounen Jump subscription from Viz. You pay $2 and can read as much Shounen Jump manga online as you like for a month. So, if you read any more than about a quarter of a volume in a month, you're getting a better deal than if you bought the individual volumes digitally. Chances are you'll read much faster than that, so... The price really can't be beaten here; if you like reading digitally, this is definitely the way to go.

Do be aware that all English editions have "Hercule" and "Djinn Boo".

[...] we'd most likely still get crap like "Hercule", "Djinn Boo" and "Vegerot".

Hercule is worth noting as censorship, but Djinn-Boo is a correct localisation of Majin Boo's name. Some people pass around nonsense about Majin meaning "Demon man" and Djinn meaning "Genie" and thus the two are vastly different and Viz were dumb, but in actual fact, the way the terms are used in Japanese and the way it all works out, the context of everything...
Look, I'm no expert, so you'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than myself to give you a more in-depth explanation of this, but as I'm given to understand it, Djinn-Boo is a perfectly accurate rendering of his name, and while it is weird if you're used to Majin Boo, that's the only potential stumbling point -- the fact that it's a rendering you're not used to.

Of course, if the name being different bothers you that much, the various major differences in how the manga progresses compared to the anime will be far more bothersome -- yes, I know the story is still essentially the same, but if you're used to it with all the anime's filler, you'll find a lot of the manga to be a really weird read.

As for Vegerot... Again, it sounds weird, but it's a perfectly logical change to make, and I find it preferable to keeping "Vegetto" in a situation where that name makes no sense whatsoever. And in a world where we have crap localisations from Funi like "Bulla", "Olibu", "Destruco-Disc", "Krillin", "Jiren", "Jeice", "Burter", or "Syn Shenron", I don't see why anyone would single out Viz's "Vegerot" as some kind of abomination unto god; it's weird if you're not used to it, but y'know... It makes sense, just let it sink in and enjoy it for what it is. It's not like a couple of names that sound odd ruin a translation.

And to be clear, a few names sounding odd, and the censorship lingering is really all that's "Wrong" with Viz's translation. De-censor it, and you have a really solid uncensored translation right there.
Fix a couple of the actual non-censorship problems it has (a couple of names are indeed stupid; "Full Metal Jacket", a lot of the chapter titles, and a handful of translation errors that crept in throughout the run...), and you have a pretty ideal manga translation.

[JohnnyCashKami]

Agreed. The Full Color comics aren't cancelled, they just take forever to be released whether that may be 10 or 20 years from now so you might as well look for an alternative.

Someone else should buy the license off Viz and release the Full Color comics in English.

[jrdemr]

Hercule is worth noting as censorship, but Djinn-Boo is a correct localisation of Majin Boo's name. Some people pass around nonsense about Majin meaning "Demon man" and Djinn meaning "Genie" and thus the two are vastly different and Viz were dumb, but in actual fact, the way the terms are used in Japanese and the way it all works out, the context of everything...
Look, I'm no expert, so you'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than myself to give you a more in-depth explanation of this, but as I'm given to understand it, Djinn-Boo is a perfectly accurate rendering of his name, and while it is weird if you're used to Majin Boo, that's the only potential stumbling point -- the fact that it's a rendering you're not used to.

Of course, if the name being different bothers you that much, the various major differences in how the manga progresses compared to the anime will be far more bothersome -- yes, I know the story is still essentially the same, but if you're used to it with all the anime's filler, you'll find a lot of the manga to be a really weird read.

As for Vegerot... Again, it sounds weird, but it's a perfectly logical change to make, and I find it preferable to keeping "Vegetto" in a situation where that name makes no sense whatsoever. And in a world where we have crap localisations from Funi like "Bulla", "Olibu", "Destruco-Disc", "Krillin", "Jiren", "Jeice", "Burter", or "Syn Shenron", I don't see why anyone would single out Viz's "Vegerot" as some kind of abomination unto god; it's weird if you're not used to it, but y'know... It makes sense, just let it sink in and enjoy it for what it is. It's not like a couple of names that sound odd ruin a translation.

And to be clear, a few names sounding odd, and the censorship lingering is really all that's "Wrong" with Viz's translation. De-censor it, and you have a really solid uncensored translation right there.
Fix a couple of the actual non-censorship problems it has (a couple of names are indeed stupid; "Full Metal Jacket", a lot of the chapter titles, and a handful of translation errors that crept in throughout the run...), and you have a pretty ideal manga translation.

I guess they wouldn't really need to change all that much. The translation does need at least a revision, however, especially compared to the other Viz titles. I mean, for God's sake, they left in the reference to the original Dragon Ball in the first chapter of the Full Color edition despite it no longer being called "Dragon Ball Z".

"Hercule" obviously has no excuse, but "Djinn Boo"... eh... you could argue that Boo has a lot of that Arabic theme going on, coming out of a seal and all, and that it might even be a reference to the last villain in Dr. Slump, which was indeed Arabic-themed (and also called "Majin" in the original), but still... it's quite possibly overreaching. It's a valid translation... but certainly not one I would go with. I'd just leave it as "Majin" or translate it as "Monster", perhaps even omitting the "Majin" part altogether.

Regarding "Vegerot"... this is one translation that there's no good answer for. It's valid, for sure, but certainly not would I'd go with, however, it just reminds me way too much of rotten vegetables. My personal policy is: when in doubt, don't change the original, especially when it concerns character names.

[eledoremassis02]

I actually didnt mind the 3in1s and they good.for the price. I miss them even tho i upgraded to the mooks

[KBABZ]

I actually didnt mind the 3in1s and they good.for the price. I miss them even tho i upgraded to the mooks

Yeah, I have one of them given by my girlfriend and the pictures are quite sharp with good (as in, you can't see through them) paper quality. About the only downside is the fact that the sheer page count means you feel like you're tearing the book in half opening it fully!

[Robo4900]

I guess they wouldn't really need to change all that much. The translation does need at least a revision, however, especially compared to the other Viz titles. I mean, for God's sake, they left in the reference to the original Dragon Ball in the first chapter of the Full Color edition despite it no longer being called "Dragon Ball Z".

Agreed.
It does need a once-over/TLC, and it's sad we'll probably never get that.

"Hercule" obviously has no excuse, but "Djinn Boo"... eh... you could argue that Boo has a lot of that Arabic theme going on, coming out of a seal and all, and that it might even be a reference to the last villain in Dr. Slump, which was indeed Arabic-themed (and also called "Majin" in the original), but still... it's quite possibly overreaching. It's a valid translation... but certainly not one I would go with. I'd just leave it as "Majin" or translate it as "Monster", perhaps even omitting the "Majin" part altogether.

Regarding "Vegerot"... this is one translation that there's no good answer for. It's valid, for sure, but certainly not would I'd go with, however, it just reminds me way too much of rotten vegetables. My personal policy is: when in doubt, don't change the original, especially when it concerns character names.

Still, the guys who did the Viz translation are/were pros, so assuming you know better than those guys is...
Well...
At the very least, while it's definitely perfectly valid to question the decision, I wouldn't call it bad/wrong without being pretty damn sure. And given translation is what these guys did/do for a living... I find things like Djinn-Boo very hard to dismiss, even if obvious censorship changes like "Hercule" are indisputably dumb.

And in cases like Vegerot where it's 100% just personal opinion... I find it hard to make a strong case against it other than "A handful of people anecdotally don't like it and would prefer if it was more like the anime version", which you'll find will apply to every single name Viz uses that isn't the same as what Funimation uses.

[jrdemr]

Still, the guys who did the Viz translation are/were pros, so assuming you know better than those guys is...
Well...
At the very least, while it's definitely perfectly valid to question the decision, I wouldn't call it bad/wrong without being pretty damn sure. And given translation is what these guys did/do for a living... I find things like Djinn-Boo very hard to dismiss, even if obvious censorship changes like "Hercule" are indisputably dumb.

And in cases like Vegerot where it's 100% just personal opinion... I find it hard to make a strong case against it other than "A handful of people anecdotally don't like it and would prefer if it was more like the anime version", which you'll find will apply to every single name Viz uses that isn't the same as what Funimation uses.

I do have a master's degree in translation and have worked professionally as a translator. But either way, saying they're beyond reproach just because they're professionals isn't much of an argument. Being a professional doesn't make you infallible and just because you're not a professional doesn't mean you can't criticize the work of those who are. There's nothing wrong with having a little critical thinking - as long as you have some arguments to back up your claims, of course.

[Robo4900]

Still, the guys who did the Viz translation are/were pros, so assuming you know better than those guys is...
Well...
At the very least, while it's definitely perfectly valid to question the decision, I wouldn't call it bad/wrong without being pretty damn sure. And given translation is what these guys did/do for a living... I find things like Djinn-Boo very hard to dismiss, even if obvious censorship changes like "Hercule" are indisputably dumb.

And in cases like Vegerot where it's 100% just personal opinion... I find it hard to make a strong case against it other than "A handful of people anecdotally don't like it and would prefer if it was more like the anime version", which you'll find will apply to every single name Viz uses that isn't the same as what Funimation uses.

I do have a master's degree in translation and have worked professionally as a translator. But either way, saying they're beyond reproach just because they're professionals isn't much of an argument. Being a professional doesn't make you infallible and just because you're not a professional doesn't mean you can't criticize the work of those who are. There's nothing wrong with having a little critical thinking - as long as you have some arguments to back up your claims, of course.

I made a concerted effort to avoid saying exactly what you're pointing out there. What I was going for wasn't "They are professional so all criticisms are invalid", more a case of criticising it is valid, but at the end of the day, a lot of this is just "I personally wouldn't render it as Djinn", which is hardly more substantial than any other case of personal preference; as I alluded to at several points, such as "At the very least, while it's definitely perfectly valid to question the decision"...

Anyway, given these guys are pros, the point is, it isn't just some guys making a bad/stupid call, it's a choice that has a reasonable obvious thinking behind it, so I would say dismissing it as bad just because that's not your preferred way is a bit silly, and not a particularly insightful contribution to a discussion.

For instance, it's worth criticising the official subtitles' choice of rendering "Kami-sama" as-is; there's plenty of cases one could point to where it's clunky and weird, and there's a strong argument that translating it to "God" would work better.
Presenting such a case is fine, but calling it in the terms you're calling out Vegerot, Djinn-Boo etc., very much in the same tone people talk about stuff like "Mondo cool", at least from where I'm standing... Well, to me it seems needlessly harsh, at the very least.

Translation isn't an exact art, especially where names are concerned; should we say Bulma, as on her shirt, Blooma/Bloomer, as in the English root word, or Buruma, as in a direct romanisation? There was a thread not long ago where people -- including myself -- argued reasonably in all three directions.
Is there one correct answer? No. Every approach will have its supporters and detractors, its share of praise and criticism. Does that mean any given one of these approaches is bad? No, not necessarily. And, as you rightly point out, are any of these beyond criticism? Of course not. In my mind, nothing is beyond criticism, just as long as it is indeed criticism, not just slagging something off.

Ultimately, the point here is that Viz's translation only really tends to draw ire for its name choices -- 99% of which are just a case of "it's different therefore I don't like it" -- and its censorship. While I think it's perfectly valid to say Viz's translation is flawed for its censorship, I just don't see how the names (censorship cases like Hercule, and a few other odd ones like Full Metal Jacket, aside) are anything more than just personal preferences getting mixed in with legitimate criticism.
Again, criticise something all you like, but coming to the conclusion that a name is bad just because that's not your preferred way of phrasing it, out of the several ways that are all perfectly justified... Well, in the immortal words of Mr. Sonic T. Hedgehog, "That's no good!"