Funimation's 30th anniversary collectible home video release

[Robo4900]

Price is the biggest reason.

Source?

If you've seen any of my posts Robo4900 you'll know I'm against how awful this remaster is too. I take issue with his comparing it to relationship abuse. It's stupid and ignorant.

Fair. However, responding to tone is a logical fallacy. Feel free to call out his tone for being offside, but using it against the points his making is poor form.

I'm NOT arguing his points!! What the hell man? I think this remaster is awful and shouldn't be purchased! Did you hear me?! I DON'T disagree with the remaster being awful. Read all of the words before replying.

Sorry. I think I'm probably mixing some of ABED's posts up as yours.

Price is the biggest reason.

Source?

If you've seen any of my posts Robo4900 you'll know I'm against how awful this remaster is too. I take issue with his comparing it to relationship abuse. It's stupid and ignorant.

Fair. However, responding to tone is a logical fallacy. Feel free to call out his tone for being offside, but using it against the points his making is poor form.

So is clear false equivalency.

I don't have one, but price is ALWAYS at the top of the list of people's buying decisions for what should be obvious reasons. Why do you think the Season sets sold so well?

It is not obvious, and there are many reasons.

Again, the Levels were in 2011. 2011, Kai was still going and still the big cheese, the DBoxes were still going, we'd just got done with the OBs which follwed up after the canned UUEs which were the tail end of the DVD singles we'd been getting since the '90s.

No one wanted to buy the Levels at that price in 2011. Yes, price very likely factored in. Was it the main reason? Was it the sole reason?... I'm sure it factored in, but you're making a lot of assumptions here buddy; DBZ was utterly saturated in 2011.

2014, the BDs were cheaper. But, the market had had some time. Kai was losing its flavour, the DBoxes were scalpers' territory already, the OBs had a bad reputation online, and in 2014, Blu-Ray adoption was stronger than in 2011.
I'm sure price factored in. I'm sure it was a major factor. Saying it's the only reason, or the biggest reason... Again, there's a lot at play here. It's foolish to assume one factor is the core reason just because it seems obvious to you.

What about the factor of Level 1.1 and 1.2 happening within a couple of monts, then a gap, then cancellation, while the Season BDs took about a year to get out, came out regularly, and have been on the market for like 5 goddamn years.

[Forte224]

It's fine, I thought I was going insane for a second or something.

[Char Aznable]

A lot of people here being unnecessarily nasty toward their fellow fans. I think it’s a small chance at best, but I’m really going to laugh if the ‘footage isn’t final’ ends up being the case.

They're just in denial; can't face the fact they've likely wasted $350 on something arguably worse than the Season BDs that you could probably get for half that price or less.

Well full disclosure, I did pre-order the set. Truth be told even though I own the Dragon Boxes, I've wanted a Blu-ray version for awhile and I didn't want it in widescreen. If this does turn out to be the same bad footage shown in the trailer at least I'll have options to mull over - cancel my order, sell the box (and would likely get more than $350), or just keep it anyway because this'll likely be the first and last 4:3 Blu-ray for awhile at least. You have to admit though, it's strange they would use Level and Season (before cropping) footage in the same trailer. We'll see what happens. I think it's more unlikely than likely, but we'll see what happens.

In other words, I ordered knowing it was a gamble. The sheer vitriol this thread has turned into over - once again - a Blu-ray box set of a Japanese cartoon meant for young boys is rather hilarious to read, really.

[KBABZ]

In other words, I ordered knowing it was a gamble. The sheer vitriol this thread has turned into over - once again - a Blu-ray box set of a Japanese cartoon meant for young boys is rather hilarious to read, really.

I hate how people are attacking each other in here. I get strong disagreements but there's no need to throw insults and venom over this stuff.

[ABED]

I know what the market was like at that point but if the price point was the same as the season sets and had the same number of episodes, it's a moot point. I'm not making a ton of assumptions. Any intro marketing course will tell you the same. Oversaturation didn't help, but the price point is the key here. Why pay more and get less when an easily purchasable alternative is close by?

Nowhere did I ever say it was the only reason.

Again, there's a lot at play here. It's foolish to assume one factor is the core reason just because it seems obvious to you.

You're overthinking this. It's not complicated at all. The home video market isn't what it once was and even though BD adoption was higher, it's still has yet to overtake DVD.

What about the factor of Level 1.1 and 1.2 happening within a couple of monts, then a gap, then cancellation, while the Season BDs took about a year to get out, came out regularly, and have been on the market for like 5 goddamn years.

Price point! The gap helped, certainly, but the cost of producing the set was a hell of a lot lower and the deal to the consumer was better as the price per episodes on the discs was a much better deal.

[Char Aznable]

In other words, I ordered knowing it was a gamble. The sheer vitriol this thread has turned into over - once again - a Blu-ray box set of a Japanese cartoon meant for young boys is rather hilarious to read, really.

I hate how people are attacking each other in here. I get strong disagreements but there's no need to throw insults and venom over this stuff.

Exactly, it’s ridiculous. Your favorite piece of Dragon Ball ever could be dubbed GT with that glorious Mark Menza soundtrack and you have ‘Step Into the Grand Tour’ on loop for all hours of the day and I’ll disagree with you, probably look at you weirdly, but I’m not going to start slinging insults.

[Robo4900]

Well full disclosure, I did pre-order the set. Truth be told even though I own the Dragon Boxes, I've wanted a Blu-ray version for awhile and I didn't want it in widescreen. If this does turn out to be the same bad footage shown in the trailer at least I'll have options to mull over - cancel my order, sell the box (and would likely get more than $350), or just keep it anyway because this'll likely be the first and last 4:3 Blu-ray for awhile at least. You have to admit though, it's strange they would use Level and Season (before cropping) footage in the same trailer. We'll see what happens. I think it's more unlikely than likely, but we'll see what happens.

If you're not convinced by the evidence now, I assure you you won't believe it until it's far too late, the boxes will be in your hands, and you'll have supported Funi in never striving to do better.

I hate how people are attacking each other in here. I get strong disagreements but there's no need to throw insults and venom over this stuff.

Exactly, it’s ridiculous. Your favorite piece of Dragon Ball ever could be dubbed GT with that glorious Mark Menza soundtrack and you have ‘Step Into the Grand Tour’ on loop for all hours of the day and I’ll disagree with you, probably look at you weirdly, but I’m not going to start slinging insults.

This isn't about people's opinions being challenged, this is about people being willfully ignorant and supporting an official release that's a significant step-down from the previous one, already hated as one of the worst pieces of anime home video, which itself was a follow-up to much the same thing in much the same way, and so many people simply refusing to do the bare minimum required to say "No, I do not support this release."

Dragon Ball fans have a tendency to roll over and take it whatever crap happens, and any time someone tries to point out how ridiculous it is, the response is always the same: oh you're just getting unreasonably angry. calm down. it's not like it matters.

If this crap happened to Star Wars, they'd start a cultural revolution. Oh wait, they bloody did. Han Shot First is a catchphrase everyone knows, and every Star Wars fan is pretty much united in being really angry whenever Lucasfilm put out a new release that doesn't have the option of watching without all the crappy CG and such.
The Buffy fandom is in the midst of an online campaign against its crappy remaster.

So, I think you can probably understand why a lot of people are really annoyed that so many people are not just rolling over and taking it, but outright criticising anyone who's standing up against this crap.

In other words, I ordered knowing it was a gamble. The sheer vitriol this thread has turned into over - once again - a Blu-ray box set of a Japanese cartoon meant for young boys is rather hilarious to read, really.

Yes, how pathetic and ridiculous we are for being frustrated that Funimation has continually promised big and then taken a massive shit on one of the most popular, beloved Japanese franchises in the western world. They've been doing this since 1995, when the franchise was just getting its humble start on syndication when they cancelled Dragon Ball half-way through its 26-episode order then suddenly skipped to DBZ, then said that despite all the cutting and censorship they'd have Pioneer put out an uncut version with the same cast (and we got a taste of what this meant with Pioneer's movie dubs), then they dumped the cast everyone watching the dub had grown to love in favour of cheap impressionists, and cut their ties with Pioneer, then they continued to censor and generally really poorly-translate the show despite it being an uncut dub and them clearly having good translations on hand at the time.

And then all the home video crap happened in 2005-present.

Anyone who's a hardcore enough fan to be posting in this thread almost certainly has so much resentment to Funi already, and were giving them the benefit of the doubt, hoping they'd finally get it right, then... This disappointment. We really shouldn't be disappointed by this anymore, and yet here we are.

You know what I have to say if a friend asks me "hey that dragon ball show you like. what if i want to give it a go?"
I have to go into a whole thing explaining precisely why and how each release is bad, and somehow figure out some way of getting the show to them in a decent form. I shouldn't have to do a TedTalk to explain how to pick up this highly-influential anime, I should just be able to point to a Crunchyroll stream, or throw them a link to a solid DVD release, or whatever.
Even if they hadn't royally screwed up the home video, we'd still have all the issues to do with redubbing, the poor "Remastered" dub mixing, and the jarring switch from episode 67 to 68.

Getting into Dragon Ball is a mess, and it's a mess Funimation made right in front of its fans as they desperately begged them to just do something competent like every company -- including Funi themselves -- have done with every other goddamn show.

So yes, we're a little peeved, and we're going to complain and argue about it, and people excusing this crap are going to get an earfull.

But y'know... For whatever it's worth, I'm not that angry. And I'm not angry at you. I'm mostly just disappointed. Pretty sad actually. I'm just... Done with this crap. I don't think we're ever going to get a release of Dragon Ball that's even remotely worth buying, and what's available to the masses will continue to be a bastardisation of one of my favourite things. And that's just... Sad.

[ABED]

It's not much of a revolution if they can't convince Lucasfilm or Disney to release the original. I get it, I want a proper unedited release of both SW and DB (I have the latter, not the former), and I can understand petitions and voting with your wallet, but the vitriol for something like this is unwarranted. It's trivial in the scheme of things.

[Robo4900]

It's not much of a revolution if they can't convince Lucasfilm or Disney to release the original. I get it, I want a proper unedited release of both SW and DB (I have the latter, not the former), and I can understand petitions and voting with your wallet, but the vitriol for something like this is unwarranted. It's trivial in the scheme of things.

Some people are getting really riled up at people who are preordering this thing, man. People should be kind, but can you really blame them when literally the entire premise of this release is that it won't happen if it doesn't get to 3000 preorders?

It's kind of like this release was specially assembled to cause division, and to give a middle-finger to the hardcore fans; everyone who preorders this is working against the wishes of anyone who cares about the integrity of the show. And at the same time, anyone who doesn't preorder it is working against the idea of a 4:3 release. It's a bloody nightmare, and there's no way to win: Either the boxset succeeds, and Funi have put out their nominally hardcore-orientated release, and everyone who isn't crazy enough to spend $350 on some collectible boxset can stick to the 16:9 flavour of this crappy mastering but it's also cheaper than the box of all the Season BDs on Amazon; $350 instead of $400. But that's a crazy, overpriced thing for people who don't do their research, because buying the BDs individually only comes to about $200... And anyway, even if this 4:3 release wasn't crap, it's a limited thing anyway, like the Dragon Boxes (which was in theory a good release, but its low numbers and thus collectible nature takes away any of the good aspects of it), but it's also crap, so every aspect of this, the fans lose. Or, this fails, and Funi can say "well we tried 4:3 but no one wanted it." So, if this fails, the fans still kind of lose, even if we win the moral victory. But Funi marketing can easily just ignore us and pretend there was no backlash; the casual masses who buy up the Season BDs will be none the wiser. This whole thing just... Ugh.

This is just... It's the worst. We're being pitted against each-other, and it's probably a no-win scenario anyway. We can protest it all we like, but like Star Wars fans, we're doomed to be stuck with this atrocity that has no respect for the original classic work, but unlike Star Wars fans, we're fighting each-other over it because so many people have been taken in by the crap, and don't understand the problem. And there's the simple factor of: This release sucks, and if you buy it you're wasting your money. I don't want people to waste their money on this crap; it's a bad decision, they're being manipulated into buying something that's at best on the same level as the Season BDs, but they're spending nearly twice as much on it. Naturally, everyone's free to spend their money as they please, but there's also the element that if this doesn't get to 3000, then it sends the message to Funi, especially given how many people are saying stuff on Twitter, YouTube, etc. against this... But so many people simply don't care, and it'll probably reach 3000 anyway, and all this will have fallen on deaf ears.

... God I'm tired.

[KBABZ]

It's not much of a revolution if they can't convince Lucasfilm or Disney to release the original. I get it, I want a proper unedited release of both SW and DB (I have the latter, not the former), and I can understand petitions and voting with your wallet, but the vitriol for something like this is unwarranted. It's trivial in the scheme of things.

Some people are getting really riled up at people who are preordering this thing, man. People should be kind, but can you really blame them when literally the entire premise of this release is that it won't happen if it doesn't get to 3000 preorders?

I think his point is "but kids are starving in Africa, this dumb anime doesn't matter".

[PremiumSalt]

2061/3000

Less than a thousand away.

deep, prolonged sigh

[Robo4900]

It's not much of a revolution if they can't convince Lucasfilm or Disney to release the original. I get it, I want a proper unedited release of both SW and DB (I have the latter, not the former), and I can understand petitions and voting with your wallet, but the vitriol for something like this is unwarranted. It's trivial in the scheme of things.

Some people are getting really riled up at people who are preordering this thing, man. People should be kind, but can you really blame them when literally the entire premise of this release is that it won't happen if it doesn't get to 3000 preorders?

I think his point is "but kids are starving in Africa, this dumb anime doesn't matter".

I try to assume good faith when people are arguing with me, and I've always found that to be the case with ABED to my recollections, so I discounted that possibility.

2061/3000

Less than a thousand away.

deep, prolonged sigh

... God, I'm tired.

I'm gonna go appreciate how nice all of Doctor Who's DVDs are for a while.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

2061/3000

Less than a thousand away.

deep, prolonged sigh

Yep i knew it, they can always depend on that casual part of the fanbase who don't give a rat's ass about preserving the intended version of the show, unlike the majority of us on this here website that care (aspect ratio, grain.etc) and will take whatever cheap stuff FUNi dishes out no matter how crappy the video or other things are.

[Scsigs]

Just wanted to say, I truly believe this is more so the doing of Toei Animation than FUNimation. FUNi had no issues releasing older properties like Yu Yu Hakusho and Cowboy Bebop on Blu-ray in great quality. Then there's Toei, responsible for blocking One Piece episodes on Blu-ray because it's not a thing in Japan and withholding better masters of Sailor Moon episodes from Viz Media. The difference between the Blu-rays we got here to the ones released in Japan are like night and day.

Unless it's being withheld until a later date, there was no mention of the broadcast audio being utilized. Seems like Toei would block. Toei hasn't been afraid to put a hamper on things FUNimation tried giving us, like the TFS cameo in Kai Final Chapters and preventing Mark de Groot from dubbing one of Super's songs at the request of Sabat.

I just wish back when Level sets were being produced, it was handled with a reservation minimum like this collection had. Then maybe we could have gotten the remaster DBZ deserved.

No, it's FUNi. Everything about this is their fault, my guy.

First, start the ultimate uncut releases, put those out of print.
Second, put out the shitty Orange Bricks, sell them extremely well through false advertising & a cheap price.
Third, put out the Dragon Boxes to appease fans who hated the Orange Bricks & have them be a limited release & don't bother making a version in-print of only the episodes in good packaging.
Fourth, start dubbing Kai & release that to home media.
Fifth, start GOOD Blu-Rays then cancel them 2 sets in because their higher price tag & less episodes, as well as flooding the market for the last 4 years, causes not a lot of interest, confusion, &, thus, not generate a lot of revenue versus costs of production.
Sixth, produce new Blu-Rays 3 years later that suck & make a lot of money off of them when Dragon Ball hasn't been put on home media in a while & the new DBZ movie's out in Japan & being dubbed for a US release.
Seventh: Put out NEW Blu-Rays where their only selling point, seemingly, is the fact that they're in 4:3 finally.
Eighth: ???
Ninth: Profit.

FUNi cucked themselves HARD with these things & they keep doing it for some reason. Makes me feel like they have a fetish for doing so. On the other things, One piece is because of reverse importation, since they're not the only company to be denied to release a big anime series on Blu-Ray *cough* Naruto Shippuden *cough*. And, apparently the Japanese remasters for Sailor Moon aren't any better. The only country to have good masters for that series is Italy, so I don't know where you're getting that.

When it comes to the TFS cameo, they have a right to not allow anyone in the dub as they see fit. They HATE TFS, so it makes sense. Granted, they weren't against them in their dub of One Piece or Res F, but it wasn't as obvious. Where was it ever said that Mark was contacted by Sabat to produce a cover of the first Super theme song? I've never seen anyone say that that was a thing in any of these forums or otherwise. The only place I've seen the 2 connected is TV Tropes & that was misinformation on them eventually replacing the version they had with his cover. Other than that, what you just said seems like hearsay at best. And getting Natewantstobattle to do the second one doesn't indicate otherwise to me, since he's at least WORKED at FUNi before & is a voice actor part time.

[KBABZ]

I try to assume good faith when people are arguing with me, and I've always found that to be the case with ABED to my recollections, so I discounted that possibility.

You have a lot more patience then I do.

Yes, how pathetic and ridiculous we are for being frustrated that Funimation has continually promised big and then taken a massive shit on one of the most popular, beloved Japanese franchises in the western world.

What gets me is that they've had six attempts to do this, and of them, only three have been done right (Saban, UUE and Levels) but only one of those was ever seen through to completion. That Funi have a 1/6 hit ratio with arguably the most popular and iconic anime in the world speaks volumes to how inept they are with this stuff.

This is probably the thousandth time this has been brought up, but if they had just packaged together the Singles for the DVDs and done a one-and-done faithful master for the Blu-Ray we wouldn't even be in this situation. I mean, look at the DVD situation for this franchise in Japan: one release, and despite the colouring issues, it's a pretty good release of the classic run. Meanwhile Funi have tried it six times and every single one have multiple significant caveats, failing to just hit the spot correctly and do due diligence. It's like Donald Trump trying to do archery.

[PremiumSalt]

When it comes to the TFS cameo, they have a right to not allow anyone in the dub as they see fit. They HATE TFS, so it makes sense. Granted, they weren't against them in their dub of One Piece or Res F, but it wasn't as obvious.

TFS is in the Res F dub? Huh. TIL. Where exactly in the film are they?

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I try to assume good faith when people are arguing with me, and I've always found that to be the case with ABED to my recollections, so I discounted that possibility.

You have a lot more patience then I do.

Yes, how pathetic and ridiculous we are for being frustrated that Funimation has continually promised big and then taken a massive shit on one of the most popular, beloved Japanese franchises in the western world.

What gets me is that they've had six attempts to do this, and of them, only three have been done right (Saban, UUE and Levels) but only one of those was ever seen through to completion. That Funi have a 1/6 hit ratio with arguably the most popular and iconic anime in the world speaks volumes to how inept they are with this stuff.

This is probably the thousandth time this has been brought up, but if they had just packaged together the Singles for the DVDs and done a one-and-done faithful master for the Blu-Ray we wouldn't even be in this situation. I mean, look at the DVD situation for this franchise in Japan: one release, and despite the colouring issues, it's a pretty good release of the classic run. Meanwhile Funi have tried it six times and every single one have multiple significant caveats, failing to just hit the spot correctly and do due diligence. It's like Donald Trump trying to do archery.

I just shake my head because they've dropped the ball with the series over and over, and just about every release since the Ultimate Uncuts were unceremoniously killed off and the Orange Bricks came out in 2007 barring the Dragon Boxes have been pure crap. Like you it makes me wish that they had simply just put the same masters as the singles into the sets (though with some slight touching up) and they still would've sold like crazy, so the faux widescreen cropping and DNR'ing were pointless and stupid decisions in my eyes because they could have still made a lot of money by just leaving things as is.

[SqueakyBoots]

If you missed out on the Dragon Boxes that is your fault.

Let's say you're currently 15 years old and you recently started getting into Dragon Ball after seeing some episodes of Super or playing FighterZ with a friend. Ruling Kai out because you want to see the original uncut version of the show, your only options are tracking down dozens of old single disc releases with only four episodes a piece or getting the cropped smeary season sets. What's that? You didn't buy the limited run collectors editon sets that came out when you were seven? Sucks to be you, then.


And generally speaking, the type of people that are okay with it being cropped are also the people that will have their tvs stretch 4:3 images into 16:9 anyway so that's kind of a moot point. I have never seen anyone complain when any given 90s or earlier show under the sun gets released in its proper ratio.

Here's my question to those 15 year olds. Would additional footage at the top and bottom of the screen help in your experience? Would it radically change the DBZ Experience? Would it suddenly turn into something 10x better because of the additional footage?

Those are all rhetorical questions, the answer to all of them is no. If you're 15, and want to watch the show, the blu-rays will do just fine and you won't really miss out on anything.

I'm not sure why most of you can't be more open minded, I went out of my way to collect the Japanese and American Versions of the DragonBoxes because of the purist within me, but even then I realize that there isn't a significant upgrade to my experience of watching them on the Dragon Boxes.

I first got into Dragon Ball at age 17 during the Summer of 2010 after watching Kai on Nicktoons Network. I was instantly hooked and wanted to start getting dvds of the original shows. After going online and seeing that there were multiple different releases, I decided to do some research to try and figure out which release was the best. After seeing multiple reviews from people on youtube and this forum, I was very easily persuaded into getting the Dragon Boxes. Fortunately, this was when they were still being released in the US and I was able to afford getting them as they came out. I watched the Cell and Buu sagas for the first time through the Dragon Box sets with dub audio. I even held off on buying original Dragon Ball thinking they were going to release Dragon Box sets for that series as well.

I hadn't even seen the show before and I thought the orange bricks were the worst looking dvd set I had ever seen. They are that bad. It wasn't about purism, it was about wanting to have a version of the show that was watchable.

[bkev]

Gotta agree with Char Aznable over here about the way people have reacted to this set. It's not... an ideal release - it's not even close to it - but the vitriol here rivals the Star Wars fandom.

Personally, I don't find this nearly as disrespectful as the 16:9 releases. I'm miffed this is their idea of a collector's edition, and I won't buy it, but let's face it. They'll be making these sets until the end of time. People who act like this is a malicious choice... I just don't understand the attitude. As much as I agree with y'all about what we've seen, at the end of the day, we are the minority voice in a socially-accepted entertainment niche. Most folks will think this is fine.

Truthfully I'm not sure I'd ever be the audience. If I want DragonBall on my (one day organized, I promise!) physical media shelf it's the first series, that's what's imprinted on me. Maybe that's why I'm not mad.

[clutchins]

It's not much of a revolution if they can't convince Lucasfilm or Disney to release the original. I get it, I want a proper unedited release of both SW and DB (I have the latter, not the former), and I can understand petitions and voting with your wallet, but the vitriol for something like this is unwarranted. It's trivial in the scheme of things.

Some people are getting really riled up at people who are preordering this thing, man. People should be kind, but can you really blame them when literally the entire premise of this release is that it won't happen if it doesn't get to 3000 preorders?

I think his point is "but kids are starving in Africa, this dumb anime doesn't matter".

If that is his point, then that's another fallacy. Just because bigger problems exist doesn't minimize this problem whatsoever. Our concerns are valid.