Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

When did Vegeta say that he'd passed Gohan at the Cell Games?

It's obvious he did upon becoming Majin Vegeta but where was it said before that power up?

[p-hyvo]

When did Vegeta say that he'd passed Gohan at the Cell Games?

It's obvious he did upon becoming Majin Vegeta but where was it said before that power up?

He literally told gohan something like "once you were stronger than me, but now you've slacked and I'm stronger"
I mean, that was obvious imo. Even without statements, you can get it by logic.
Plus, both Goku and vegeta talks about dabra as "nothing special, nothing dangerous", when a gohan that even underwent a big zenkai was having a really hard time against him. This would prove it.
Goku >vegeta>Gohan zenkai>>Gohan ( vs kibito)

And
Goku ssj2>vegeta ssj2>>Dabra>>Goku ssj>vegeta ssj>dabra(vs Gohan)>Gohan ssj zenkai

[Hugo Boss]

He literally told gohan something like "once you were stronger than me, but now you've slacked and I'm stronger"

That’s not exactly what he said. He said that he was training while Gohan wasn’t, he isn’t sure what would happen. That, and there is the implication that Dabra is much weaker than Gohan when he fought Cell.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, we're never exactly told how pre-Bobbidi Vegeta compared to 7-years-ago Gohan. It seems to me like he's at least in that same ballpark, considering how confident he seemed even when all he noted was that Gohan "looked soft." It wasn't until later when Gohan actually powered up to fight people did Vegeta start instead saying, "this kid's pathetic compared to back then, I'm definitely stronger than him now."

[p-hyvo]

He literally told gohan something like "once you were stronger than me, but now you've slacked and I'm stronger"

That’s not exactly what he said. He said that he was training while Gohan wasn’t, he isn’t sure what would happen. That, and there is the implication that Dabra is much weaker than Gohan when he fought Cell.

Yes, and vegeta was like " Gohan, you weakling!now I'll step in and kick that dabra guy's ass no diff"

[Hugo Boss]

He literally told gohan something like "once you were stronger than me, but now you've slacked and I'm stronger"

That’s not exactly what he said. He said that he was training while Gohan wasn’t, he isn’t sure what would happen. That, and there is the implication that Dabra is much weaker than Gohan when he fought Cell.

Yes, and vegeta was like " Gohan, you weakling!now I'll step in and kick that dabra guy's ass no diff"

This has nothing to do with Vegeta being/not being stronger than Gohan at Cell Games though. It only implies that Vegeta is stronger than Dabra and than that version of Gohan.

[p-hyvo]

That’s not exactly what he said. He said that he was training while Gohan wasn’t, he isn’t sure what would happen. That, and there is the implication that Dabra is much weaker than Gohan when he fought Cell.

Yes, and vegeta was like " Gohan, you weakling!now I'll step in and kick that dabra guy's ass no diff"

This has nothing to do with Vegeta being/not being stronger than Gohan at Cell Games though. It only implies that Vegeta is stronger than Dabra and than that version of Gohan.

Yes, but dabra being >=super perfect cell makes that obvious.
Even saying that ssj2 vegeta = ssj2 Gohan (cell games), means that base to base vegeta is easily at least 2 times stronger, because Gohan had a rageboost in that occasion, making ssj2 in that case more than a x2 ssj

[Hugo Boss]

dabra being >=super perfect cell makes that obvious.

Cell was actually much stronger than Dabra. One could damage a SS2 while the other couldn’t even damage a SS.

[p-hyvo]

dabra being >=super perfect cell makes that obvious.

Cell was actually much stronger than Dabra. One could damage a SS2 while the other couldn’t even damage a SS.

Goku literaly told us that cell and dabra are about as strong, so...
Plus, dabra was clearly suppressed agonist gohan, and gohan was having a really hard time.
To not consider that, at that point of the story, Gohan had surpassed his cell games self by far.
To be precise, cell damaged ssj2 gohan only in the moment he had lost his rageboost, making him a lot weaker ( probably even weaker than standard perfect cell)

[Hugo Boss]

Goku literaly told us that cell and dabra are about as strong, so...
Plus, dabra was clearly suppressed agonist gohan, and gohan was having a really hard time.
To not consider that, at that point of the story, Gohan had surpassed his cell games self by far.
To be precise, cell damaged ssj2 gohan only in the moment he had lost his rageboost, making him a lot weaker ( probably even weaker than standard perfect cell)

What exactly had Dabra accomplished? Failing to inflict considerable damage to Gohan, discovering Gohan was even weaker than the other two and that Vegeta would be much more useful for Babidi.

So, Dabra wasn’t even stronger than SS Goku, let alone SS2 Gohan or Cell. And it was actually stated that Gohan was far weaker than when he fought Cell.

[p-hyvo]

Goku literaly told us that cell and dabra are about as strong, so...
Plus, dabra was clearly suppressed agonist gohan, and gohan was having a really hard time.
To not consider that, at that point of the story, Gohan had surpassed his cell games self by far.
To be precise, cell damaged ssj2 gohan only in the moment he had lost his rageboost, making him a lot weaker ( probably even weaker than standard perfect cell)

What exactly had Dabra accomplished? Failing to inflict considerable damage to Gohan, discovering Gohan was even weaker than the other two and that Vegeta would be much more useful for Babidi.

So, Dabra wasn’t even stronger than SS Goku, let alone SS2 Gohan or Cell. And it was actually stated that Gohan was far weaker than when he fought Cell.

Dabra is stronger than ssj Goku buu saga, no debate.
He's 4000+ kiri, Goku only 3000 as a ssj

Plus, obviously by logic ssj Gohan vs dabra <Gohan ssj2 cell games, but I intended that he's stronger base to base. You should have lost my point.
Gohan as a ssj2 vs dabra would still be weaker than his cell games counterpart, even considerably, but this wasn't my point.
Base to base, Gohan vs dabra>>Gohan cell games

[Hugo Boss]

Dabra is stronger than ssj Goku buu saga, no debate.
He's 4000+ kiri, Goku only 3000 as a ssj

There are only two “kiri” readings, which are SS Goku’s 3,000 and Yakon’s 800. There is no mention of Dabra’s number. Actually, Dabra implies Goku is more powerful than him, but he can make up for that with something else, probably his techniques. Anyway, whatever he dished on SS Gohan had little to no impact.

[DanielSSJ]

Moreover, I'm not convinced that Goku's 3,000 kiri rating even represents his full power. He only turned Super Saiyan to light up the room, not because Yakon had him outmatched.

[Grand Marshal 1]

How do Kiris tie with PLs? Somewhere I heard that each kiri is equal to a pl of 5k and that in order to destroy a planet (whether it is the surface or the entire celestial object, I cannot say for sure), you need 10 kiri or 50k pl.

[p-hyvo]

How do Kiris tie with PLs? Somewhere I heard that each kiri is equal to a pl of 5k and that in order to destroy a planet (whether it is the surface or the entire celestial object, I cannot say for sure), you need 10 kiri or 50k pl.

There isn't an official and credible equivalence between kiri and pl.
I mean, vjump once told 1 kiro= 50'000, but do your math and you'll get to the conclusion that it is totally nosense.
I mean, it's vjump after all. Who believes in it?

[p-hyvo]

Moreover, I'm not convinced that Goku's 3,000 kiri rating even represents his full power. He only turned Super Saiyan to light up the room, not because Yakon had him outmatched.

He was fullpower indeed. We know for a fact that he surpassed ssj2 Gohan from the cell games only as a ssj2 and clearly not by much voting by logic

[p-hyvo]

Dabra is stronger than ssj Goku buu saga, no debate.
He's 4000+ kiri, Goku only 3000 as a ssj

There are only two “kiri” readings, which are SS Goku’s 3,000 and Yakon’s 800. There is no mention of Dabra’s number. Actually, Dabra implies Goku is more powerful than him, but he can make up for that with something else, probably his techniques. Anyway, whatever he dished on SS Gohan had little to no impact.

Dabra himself told us he's 4000+ kiri after the reading of goku's power

[Hugo Boss]

Dabra himself told us he's 4000+ kiri after the reading of goku's power

He never told that. I suggest you check the manga. Anyway, even if we assume that Dabra wasn’t fighting seriously against Gohan, it’s implied that Gohan should be capable of defeating him with the power he used against Cell. So, Dabra isn’t really stronger than Super Perfect Cell, but rather Perfect Cell, the one that Gohan pummeled.

[Bullza]

So when Vegeta said he wasn't as strong as Goku before his Majin power up, was that because Vegeta just wasn't as strong as Goku in the same form or because Goku had Super Saiyan 2 but Vegeta didn't?

In other words did Babidi's power up make Vegeta stronger all around or did it just give him access to Super Saiyan 2?

He never told that.

It was said in the anime I think.

[Hugo Boss]

did Babidi's power up make Vegeta stronger all around or did it just give him access to Super Saiyan 2?

He seemed confident that he was stronger than Gohan after seeing his SS2’s energy level. He probably already could use SS2 as well.