Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
eledoremassis02 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:19 am
Yea, I'm getting to the point where I need to say, who cares if people buy this.
*I* care if people buy this because every single person that buys this is a literal vote of confidence against the artistic integrity of the show and future potential for a faithful one.
Every single word you've stated in your post here is "eeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh whatever." OK, well you can go buy whatever's already on store shelves then. Your apathy is actively working against the best interest of the show, and actively working against everything this website stands for. I can't even remotely imagine how you can possibly be surprised when people have a rather firm reaction to that.
I cannot abide the "better the devil I know" standpoint here. They have it. They can do it. They just won't. Demand better.
Then that would be the case about every FUNimation release since the singles and we shouldn't support FUNimation at all. What are we supposed to do? And as other users stated, if this set fails then it could backs up FUNimations claim that people don't want 4:3. I also don't agree with belittling others and name calling them because they're ok with what this set or just want it as a shelf piece (again, people on this forum supported the orange bricks for the same reasons). At this point we're just overreacting, assuming FUNimation isn't going to find some other gimmick to repackage Dragon Ball Z because let's be honest, that's all they do. And what is a "potential for a faithful [release]? Are missing Japanese title cards (because we're catering to a English market] ok? Did TOEI not pick a specific font, and had people hand do most of the episode titles? Is any release without them trash? Or color correction? Specific colors were designed to look a certain way and almost all releases disregard that.
Id also like to state that when everyone was flipping out about the zoomed in the blue brick style of episode one, I was one of the few who was actively discouraging the DNR but no one wanted to talk about that. After the zoomin issue (which still isnt as big of an issue as the DNR) was "resolved" everyone all of sudden flipped out about the DNRing.
The reason why I'm take the "whatever" stance is the fact the Level sets didn't get the support, so we helped this happen and don't want to take part ownership. I was someone that was getting both the Dragon Boxes and the Level sets. They did it right the first time and we crapped on it. I, as the rest of the forum, was hoping for a level style release but again, I think we all are expecting too much from FUNimation.
So I just want to make one thing clear. Anyone who has an orange brick (no more excuses about that being the only way to of bought the entire series uncut. We should have voted with our wallet), or season bluray or big green or Ocean Dub release are fake fans? Because all of the above disregard the original intent of the show.
Last edited by eledoremassis02 on Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
I had a really long post typed out but in the end I've decided just to ask a question:
If the preorders for this set failed, would FUNimation actually see the complaints, go back to do it right, and try again? Or would they take it to mean nobody actually wants the series in 4:3, look what we tried to offer and they didn't want it, everybody loves it in 16:9? Which of these two scenarios was more likely going to happen?
FUNimation moronically released the Level Sets just after they had finished the final Dragon Box Z and back then I was like: "I just spent $400 on a complete boxset of Dragon Ball Z so why should I buy another one again?" and therefore I didn't buy the Level Sets until much later but I do regret, I would have preferred to get them new than used but for the price I bought I can't complain.
The picture quality on the Level Sets is far better than the Dragon Boxes Z and I don't even mind it didn't have the NEPs, the proper remaster was worth it. Sadly they only remastered the first 39 episodes in HD.
JohnnyCashKami wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:24 am
FUNimation moronically released the Level Sets just after they had finished the final Dragon Box Z and back then I was like: "I just spent $400 on a complete boxset of Dragon Ball Z so why should I buy another one again?" and therefore I didn't buy the Level Sets until much later but I do regret, I would have preferred to get them new than used but for the price I bought I can't complain.
The picture quality on the Level Sets is far better than the Dragon Boxes Z and I don't even mind it didn't have the NEPs, the proper remaster was worth it. Sadly they only remastered the first 39 episodes in HD.
Sadly tho, you said yourself to not underestimate the power and money of the fanbase (that's a paraphrase) and it was Dragon Ball Z in HD for the first time and done right (which is why I bought it regardless). But when it came out, we did what we go best and complained that they didn't have NEP (cause the Dboxes had them) or Japanese title cards and people were complaining about the crushed blacks (which is a thing this new set also has but people dont seem to be fussing about) So yes, it was bad timing but fans didn't have enough reason to support it either and those that did were far and few
eledoremassis02 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:19 am
Yea, I'm getting to the point where I need to say, who cares if people buy this.
*I* care if people buy this because every single person that buys this is a literal vote of confidence against the artistic integrity of the show and future potential for a faithful one.
Every single word you've stated in your post here is "eeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh whatever." OK, well you can go buy whatever's already on store shelves then. Your apathy is actively working against the best interest of the show, and actively working against everything this website stands for. I can't even remotely imagine how you can possibly be surprised when people have a rather firm reaction to that.
I cannot abide the "better the devil I know" standpoint here. They have it. They can do it. They just won't. Demand better.
Then that would be the case about every FUNimation release since the singles and we shouldn't support FUNimation at all. What are we supposed to do? And as other users stated, if this set fails then it could backs up FUNimations claim that people don't want 4:3. I also don't agree with belittling others and name calling them because they're ok with what this set or just want it as a shelf piece (again, people on this forum supported the orange bricks for the same reasons). At this point we're just overreacting, assuming FUNimation isn't going to find some other gimmick to repackage Dragon Ball Z because let's be honest, that's all they do. And what is a "potential for a faithful [release]? Are missing Japanese title cards (because we're catering to a English market] ok? Did TOEI not pick a specific font, and had people hand do most of the episode titles? Is any release without them trash? Or color correction? Specific colors were designed to look a certain way and almost all releases disregard that.
Id also like to state that when everyone was flipping out about the zoomed in the blue brick style of episode one, I was one of the few who was actively discouraging the DNR but no one wanted to talk about that. After the zoomin issue (which still isnt as big of an issue as the DNR) was "resolved" everyone all of sudden flipped out about the DNRing.
The reason why I'm take the "whatever" stance is the fact the Level sets didn't get the support, so we helped this happen and don't want to take part ownership. I was someone that was getting both the Dragon Boxes and the Level sets. They did it right the first time and we crapped on it. I, as the rest of the forum, was hoping for a level style release but again, I think we all are expecting too much from FUNimation.
So I just want to make one thing clear. Anyone who has an orange brick (no more excuses about that being the only way to of bought the entire series uncut. We should have voted with our wallet), or season bluray or big green or Ocean Dub release are fake fans? Because all of the above disregard the original intent of the show.
They already know that fans wanted 4/3 i remember you that the 4/3 win the poll, they CHOOSE DELIBERATELY to ignore it , only that should make you understand that it's not a matter of understanding coming from them but a matter of their own taste and marketting stuffs. Funimation know how to trick people and they make their trailers in that goal.
Season sets sold well cause it was low cost and the only full bluray release on the market.
Level sets sold bad cause it was high prices for low episodes number, meaning too much expensive for most people
when you check people opinion, level sets are the better in all point, so why they didn't buy it? the prices that's all
- Why their trailer show rock the dragon dvd instead of level sets for the cropping? because they know it's more crop
when they have made the level sets one, they use the latest release as a reference but strangely in that new trailer, you only have the season sets one and the rock the dragon one (deliberately ignoring dragon box and level sets) it show that funi like to lie and trick people with their release, THEY DELIBERATELY ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They know everything about grain, color correction etc that people want but they don't want to do it.
If no one would have buyed the 30th bluray, they would have probably don't release anything BUT it's better than getting countless shit cause funimation will have loose the arm wrestling against fan, now they win and know that they can do whatever they want as long as they want, there will allways be idiot to buy
something i found strange is that "answerman"
this guy know what we want, know what funimation did wrong (crush black, crop etc) and try to justify using the same kind of trick and lie than funimation
from this technician, funimation masters could only lead to blurry footage, but what are the sharp level sets then? where did they came from? i feel and i am pretty sure that this guy have been paid by funimation to spread shit about what ajay and other show them in the only goal to discredit them
VegettoEX wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:41 am *I* care if people buy this because every single person that buys this is a literal vote of confidence against the artistic integrity of the show and future potential for a faithful one.
Every single word you've stated in your post here is "eeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh whatever." OK, well you can go buy whatever's already on store shelves then. Your apathy is actively working against the best interest of the show, and actively working against everything this website stands for. I can't even remotely imagine how you can possibly be surprised when people have a rather firm reaction to that.
I cannot abide the "better the devil I know" standpoint here. They have it. They can do it. They just won't. Demand better.
Then that would be the case about every FUNimation release since the singles and we shouldn't support FUNimation at all. What are we supposed to do? And as other users stated, if this set fails then it could backs up FUNimations claim that people don't want 4:3. I also don't agree with belittling others and name calling them because they're ok with what this set or just want it as a shelf piece (again, people on this forum supported the orange bricks for the same reasons). At this point we're just overreacting, assuming FUNimation isn't going to find some other gimmick to repackage Dragon Ball Z because let's be honest, that's all they do. And what is a "potential for a faithful [release]? Are missing Japanese title cards (because we're catering to a English market] ok? Did TOEI not pick a specific font, and had people hand do most of the episode titles? Is any release without them trash? Or color correction? Specific colors were designed to look a certain way and almost all releases disregard that.
Id also like to state that when everyone was flipping out about the zoomed in the blue brick style of episode one, I was one of the few who was actively discouraging the DNR but no one wanted to talk about that. After the zoomin issue (which still isnt as big of an issue as the DNR) was "resolved" everyone all of sudden flipped out about the DNRing.
The reason why I'm take the "whatever" stance is the fact the Level sets didn't get the support, so we helped this happen and don't want to take part ownership. I was someone that was getting both the Dragon Boxes and the Level sets. They did it right the first time and we crapped on it. I, as the rest of the forum, was hoping for a level style release but again, I think we all are expecting too much from FUNimation.
So I just want to make one thing clear. Anyone who has an orange brick (no more excuses about that being the only way to of bought the entire series uncut. We should have voted with our wallet), or season bluray or big green or Ocean Dub release are fake fans? Because all of the above disregard the original intent of the show.
They already know that fans wanted 4/3 i remember you that the 4/3 win the poll, they CHOOSE DELIBERATELY to ignore it , only that should make you understand that it's not a matter of understanding coming from them but a matter of their own taste and marketting stuffs. Funimation know how to trick people and they make their trailers in that goal.
Season sets sold well cause it was low cost and the only full bluray release on the market.
Level sets sold bad cause it was high prices for low episodes number, meaning too much expensive for most people
when you check people opinion, level sets are the better in all point, so why they didn't buy it? the prices that's all
- Why their trailer show rock the dragon dvd instead of level sets for the cropping? because they know it's more crop
when they have made the level sets one, they use the latest release as a reference but strangely in that new trailer, you only have the season sets one and the rock the dragon one (deliberately ignoring dragon box and level sets) it show that funi like to lie and trick people with their release, THEY DELIBERATELY ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They know everything about grain, color correction etc that people want but they don't want to do it.
If no one would have buyed the 30th bluray, they would have probably don't release anything BUT it's better than getting countless shit cause funimation will have loose the arm wrestling against fan, now they win and know that they can do whatever they want as long as they want, there will allways be idiot to buy
I know that FUNimation disregarded the survey and thus was my whole point of " we're assuming FUNimation isn't going to find some other gimmick to repackage Dragon Ball Z, because that's what they do". They've been doing it since the Orange Brick.
Price wasn't all tho, the lack of NEP and Japanese title cards and crushed blacks also played a hand. And yes, people complained about price per-episode count and that was a huge issue as well, but I stand with what I said then now. It's still better than getting 3 episodes for about the price of one whole season (the UUE's were canceled because season boxsets were becoming popular) and the fact it was an actual full (to the best they could) remaster and that took time and money, so i think they feel now its not worth that time or money and hence why we have this 30th set. Not to mention, Dragon Boxes were for "Hardcore fans" and the Level sets were for everyone.
Also just found this looking back,
Funimation confirmed with ANN that sales were not a factor in its decision to discontinue production on the Dragon Ball Z Blu-rays. Funimation added that "the cost incurred to restore these shows has outweighed the suggested retail price we were able to pass along to our fans." https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... production
and sadly they're restoring is just "refreshing" and not restoring. This 30th set is burning at both ends trying to please two parts of a vastly different fanbase
Dragon Ball has a history of being "Modernized/westernized" here in the U.S. The Ocean Dub made it more "Saturday morning cartoony" and the in-house made it WWF. The orange bricks were an attempt with keeping up with that modernization because shows here were starting to get that same treatment (which continues today *the Simpsons, Seinfeld, friends*) Hence why, I brought up if anyone who has any release that isnt the original Japanese version/presentation are "fake fans"
I think the comparison if from the UUE DVD (hence launch). I also had the problem of them using the Dragon Box comparison on the Level sets trailer and stated that a few pages back. But it shows (in that trailer and the O'Hara interview) that they were proud of what they did with the level sets (only to reneg on everything later on).
I think they knew they could do whatever they want when the orange bricks sold. And again, TOEI did the same to a lesser extent and now we have to little hold for a proper release with color correction and we're even now getting green tinted modern animation and wrong color DNRed releases. At what point do we say "well, I'm not buying this?" If Dragon ball demands to be treated with love, we shouldn't be supporting any releases until we get it?
eledoremassis02 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:35 pm
Also just found this looking back,
Funimation confirmed with ANN that sales were not a factor in its decision to discontinue production on the Dragon Ball Z Blu-rays. Funimation added that "the cost incurred to restore these shows has outweighed the suggested retail price we were able to pass along to our fans." https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... production
Funny enough when you go to the ANN forum post on that story, here's what you get (emphases my own):
Restoring the original series frame by frame must have been an insane amount of work, even keeping all of the original grain for whatever reason. I'm shocked that they didn't quit after episode 1.
had no intention of buying these as i have no nostalgic love for DBZ and the orange bricks ,cut to 16:9 and everything, are good enough for me.
It's an unfortunate sad truth that some of the diehards here (as much as I may agree with you) will have to accept. Most people out there do not care. I think this lends some credence to my belief that if this had failed, we would never see a 4:3 release of the show again. Period.
At least FUNi knows that people out there will buy a 4:3 Blu-ray if it's offered to them. You can call me a fake fan and a big fucking idiot and chase me off the site with ridicule, that's cool, you do you. I truly think if this failed that would be the end, but because it didn't fail there will be another, superior release later. They obviously have listened to the backlash, so take that as you will. If you think that's not possible, remember Otakon 2009 when the entire fanbase was flipping out in sheer disbelief that we were actually getting Dragon Boxes in the U.S. after the orange bricks were done. I remember that day well. I thought it was some elaborate prank, I couldn't believe it. Surprises do happen!
There are also people out there that just want the show in its original ratio without the ability to spend upwards of $1,000 on Dragon Boxes. I've seen them in Facebook groups, and I feel for them.
Then that would be the case about every FUNimation release since the singles and we shouldn't support FUNimation at all. What are we supposed to do? And as other users stated, if this set fails then it could backs up FUNimations claim that people don't want 4:3. I also don't agree with belittling others and name calling them because they're ok with what this set or just want it as a shelf piece (again, people on this forum supported the orange bricks for the same reasons). At this point we're just overreacting, assuming FUNimation isn't going to find some other gimmick to repackage Dragon Ball Z because let's be honest, that's all they do. And what is a "potential for a faithful [release]? Are missing Japanese title cards (because we're catering to a English market] ok? Did TOEI not pick a specific font, and had people hand do most of the episode titles? Is any release without them trash? Or color correction? Specific colors were designed to look a certain way and almost all releases disregard that.
Id also like to state that when everyone was flipping out about the zoomed in the blue brick style of episode one, I was one of the few who was actively discouraging the DNR but no one wanted to talk about that. After the zoomin issue (which still isnt as big of an issue as the DNR) was "resolved" everyone all of sudden flipped out about the DNRing.
The reason why I'm take the "whatever" stance is the fact the Level sets didn't get the support, so we helped this happen and don't want to take part ownership. I was someone that was getting both the Dragon Boxes and the Level sets. They did it right the first time and we crapped on it. I, as the rest of the forum, was hoping for a level style release but again, I think we all are expecting too much from FUNimation.
So I just want to make one thing clear. Anyone who has an orange brick (no more excuses about that being the only way to of bought the entire series uncut. We should have voted with our wallet), or season bluray or big green or Ocean Dub release are fake fans? Because all of the above disregard the original intent of the show.
They already know that fans wanted 4/3 i remember you that the 4/3 win the poll, they CHOOSE DELIBERATELY to ignore it , only that should make you understand that it's not a matter of understanding coming from them but a matter of their own taste and marketting stuffs. Funimation know how to trick people and they make their trailers in that goal.
Season sets sold well cause it was low cost and the only full bluray release on the market.
Level sets sold bad cause it was high prices for low episodes number, meaning too much expensive for most people
when you check people opinion, level sets are the better in all point, so why they didn't buy it? the prices that's all
- Why their trailer show rock the dragon dvd instead of level sets for the cropping? because they know it's more crop
when they have made the level sets one, they use the latest release as a reference but strangely in that new trailer, you only have the season sets one and the rock the dragon one (deliberately ignoring dragon box and level sets) it show that funi like to lie and trick people with their release, THEY DELIBERATELY ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They know everything about grain, color correction etc that people want but they don't want to do it.
If no one would have buyed the 30th bluray, they would have probably don't release anything BUT it's better than getting countless shit cause funimation will have loose the arm wrestling against fan, now they win and know that they can do whatever they want as long as they want, there will allways be idiot to buy
I know that FUNimation disregarded the survey and thus was my whole point of " we're assuming FUNimation isn't going to find some other gimmick to repackage Dragon Ball Z, because that's what they do". They've been doing it since the Orange Brick.
Price wasn't all tho, the lack of NEP and Japanese title cards and crushed blacks also played a hand. And yes, people complained about price per-episode count and that was a huge issue as well, but I stand with what I said then now. It's still better than getting 3 episodes for about the price of one whole season (the UUE's were canceled because season boxsets were becoming popular) and the fact it was an actual full (to the best they could) remaster and that took time and money, so i think they feel now its not worth that time or money and hence why we have this 30th set. Not to mention, Dragon Boxes were for "Hardcore fans" and the Level sets were for everyone.
Also just found this looking back,
Funimation confirmed with ANN that sales were not a factor in its decision to discontinue production on the Dragon Ball Z Blu-rays. Funimation added that "the cost incurred to restore these shows has outweighed the suggested retail price we were able to pass along to our fans." https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... production
and sadly they're restoring is just "refreshing" and not restoring. This 30th set is burning at both ends trying to please two parts of a vastly different fanbase
Dragon Ball has a history of being "Modernized/westernized" here in the U.S. The Ocean Dub made it more "Saturday morning cartoony" and the in-house made it WWF. The orange bricks were an attempt with keeping up with that modernization because shows here were starting to get that same treatment (which continues today *the Simpsons, Seinfeld, friends*) Hence why, I brought up if anyone who has any release that isnt the original Japanese version/presentation are "fake fans"
I think the comparison if from the UUE DVD (hence launch). I also had the problem of them using the Dragon Box comparison on the Level sets trailer and stated that a few pages back. But it shows (in that trailer and the O'Hara interview) that they were proud of what they did with the level sets (only to reneg on everything later on).
I think they knew they could do whatever they want when the orange bricks sold. And again, TOEI did the same to a lesser extent and now we have to little hold for a proper release with color correction and we're even now getting green tinted modern animation and wrong color DNRed releases. At what point do we say "well, I'm not buying this?" If Dragon ball demands to be treated with love, we shouldn't be supporting any releases until we get it?
Yes but.... No
You take the raw scan, only do short crop (like level sets) and that will be hundred times better than this set.
They said that they already have all 291 episodes in raw scan films so the scanning cost isn't the matter) what is needed to be released and what aditionnal cost?
- Cropping (the new one is far than fine and they know it very well), cropping correctly cost nothing as it's a setting
- DNR is an additionnal process that no one want , even if they think it's fine, they could lower the filter so nothing more in cost
- image cleaning was done for season sets for what i know and it seems it will also be on this one , so doing it on the raw film instead of the new one is the same cost
- Color correction can be done by cheap software, they did it as this new sets don't have the same colors as the raw film, so why not doing it correctly on the raw film? cost nothing
No matter what it don't cost anything more to do it properly , what is despicable is to hide behind fake reason and lies like remaster cost but doing it properly cost nothing, it's only one time again a BIG FUCK YOU to the fans or hire answerman to defends funimation side
if an amateur can clearly see that level sets are sharp, so called professional talking about multi gen footage only can lead to blury things is nonsense. or he is idiot , or he really trust what he said (and show how low are his technical skills) or he deliberately lie cause someone give him money for
supporting this release "joke" is supporting funimation lies and fooling custumers (what is also illegal) it's not following the right path, it's support a big scam
if funimation don't want to release dragon ball properly then fans should say a BIG FUCK YOU FUNIMATION and download it as illegaly as they are doing it themselves
The 4:3 AR matters very little if the image itself is so disgusting that i would still rather watch the Dragon Boxes or the Level Sets.
That's my biggest issues here. Funimation, HAS ALREADY DONE THIS RIGHT BEFORE! Now they are actively selling you an inferior version of something that we all saw them do right, back in 2011. Sure, the Level Sets didn't include the Next Episode Previews and the Original title cards but this set could have been a opportunity to fix all of that. Instead this is inferior in every single way and Funimation knows it.
Yes i do find it irritating that fans who know better chose to support this set. While i can excuse the average Joe for buying this because "Shinny box", somewhat. I can't say the same for someone who knows that they are purchasing shit and sill decides to reward, shit. It's kind of inconceivable to me that the hardcore fans who want this show in the best possible way it can possibly look, chose to still hand over money to Funimation for such a abysmal cash grab of a product. It just shows Funimation that the hardcore fans who are complaining about this, will buy anything that has Dragon Ball Z on the cover anyway and will continue to do so in the future.
So from Funimation's perspective, why would they put any effort into making something that's on par with something that already used to exist? This hurts everybody in the long run, well except Funimation. Point is, don't give your money to something that you know is garbage.
Really if this set didn't reach it's goal and the only conclusion that Funimation did reach from that is that the "fans don't want 4:3", then they might as well be the most tone deaf company to ever exist. They are 100% aware that this set is inferior to the Level Sets but they just don't want to spend the cash to remaster this series properly. Don't reward such lazy behavior.
Casual Hardcore Western Fans won, I think you mean.
---
I understand where VegettoEX is coming from, but I'm with Car Aznable on this one. Similarly to the horrible working conditions at Telltale, both buying and not buying the product can be interpreted as support for either direction. Buying the product can be taken as "Hey 4:3 was great, keep this up" or "I don't care you do poor DNR and colour grades", and not buying the product can be taken as "Do better than this" or "4:3 doesn't sell, Orange Brick approach does". As fans we're caught in a rock and a hard place in terms of Vote With Your Wallet.
Casual Hardcore Western Fans won, I think you mean.
---
I understand where VegettoEX is coming from, but I'm with Car Aznable on this one. Similarly to the horrible working conditions at Telltale, both buying and not buying the product can be interpreted as support for either direction. Buying the product can be taken as "Hey 4:3 was great, keep this up" or "I don't care you do poor DNR and colour grades", and not buying the product can be taken as "Do better than this" or "4:3 doesn't sell, Orange Brick approach does". As fans we're caught in a rock and a hard place in terms of Vote With Your Wallet.
And that’s the main problem of all of this. We the fanbase which have endured so many different issues, triumphs, and confusion over the years, some of us fans since the initial syndicated run in the late 90s, are now being divided worse than ever over a Blu-ray boxset. It’s a tough conundrum to pass.
eledoremassis02 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:35 pm
Also just found this looking back,
Funimation confirmed with ANN that sales were not a factor in its decision to discontinue production on the Dragon Ball Z Blu-rays. Funimation added that "the cost incurred to restore these shows has outweighed the suggested retail price we were able to pass along to our fans." https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... production
Funny enough when you go to the ANN forum post on that story, here's what you get (emphases my own):
Restoring the original series frame by frame must have been an insane amount of work, even keeping all of the original grain for whatever reason. I'm shocked that they didn't quit after episode 1.
had no intention of buying these as i have no nostalgic love for DBZ and the orange bricks ,cut to 16:9 and everything, are good enough for me.
It's an unfortunate sad truth that some of the diehards here (as much as I may agree with you) will have to accept. Most people out there do not care. I think this lends some credence to my belief that if this had failed, we would never see a 4:3 release of the show again. Period.
At least FUNi knows that people out there will buy a 4:3 Blu-ray if it's offered to them. You can call me a fake fan and a big fucking idiot and chase me off the site with ridicule, that's cool, you do you. I truly think if this failed that would be the end, but because it didn't fail there will be another, superior release later. They obviously havent listened to the backlash, so take that as you will. If you think that's not possible, remember Otakon 2009 when the entire fanbase was flipping out in sheer disbelief that we were actually getting Dragon Boxes in the U.S. after the orange bricks were done. I remember that day well. I thought it was some elaborate prank, I couldn't believe it. Surprises do happen!
There are also people out there that just want the show in its original ratio without the ability to spend upwards of $1,000 on Dragon Boxes. I've seen them in Facebook groups, and I feel for them.
I looked myself and you also see the "I have my Dragon Boxes don't need this" and the "missing NEP and wrong opening". So I think that goes to show they yes it was bad time to release it, but the "Hardcore fans" were too nit-picky and the casual fans were happy with the orange bricks. Thinking about it, we should be lucky were getting any bluray releases at all
They already know that fans wanted 4/3 i remember you that the 4/3 win the poll, they CHOOSE DELIBERATELY to ignore it , only that should make you understand that it's not a matter of understanding coming from them but a matter of their own taste and marketting stuffs. Funimation know how to trick people and they make their trailers in that goal.
Season sets sold well cause it was low cost and the only full bluray release on the market.
Level sets sold bad cause it was high prices for low episodes number, meaning too much expensive for most people
when you check people opinion, level sets are the better in all point, so why they didn't buy it? the prices that's all
- Why their trailer show rock the dragon dvd instead of level sets for the cropping? because they know it's more crop
when they have made the level sets one, they use the latest release as a reference but strangely in that new trailer, you only have the season sets one and the rock the dragon one (deliberately ignoring dragon box and level sets) it show that funi like to lie and trick people with their release, THEY DELIBERATELY ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They know everything about grain, color correction etc that people want but they don't want to do it.
If no one would have buyed the 30th bluray, they would have probably don't release anything BUT it's better than getting countless shit cause funimation will have loose the arm wrestling against fan, now they win and know that they can do whatever they want as long as they want, there will allways be idiot to buy
I know that FUNimation disregarded the survey and thus was my whole point of " we're assuming FUNimation isn't going to find some other gimmick to repackage Dragon Ball Z, because that's what they do". They've been doing it since the Orange Brick.
Price wasn't all tho, the lack of NEP and Japanese title cards and crushed blacks also played a hand. And yes, people complained about price per-episode count and that was a huge issue as well, but I stand with what I said then now. It's still better than getting 3 episodes for about the price of one whole season (the UUE's were canceled because season boxsets were becoming popular) and the fact it was an actual full (to the best they could) remaster and that took time and money, so i think they feel now its not worth that time or money and hence why we have this 30th set. Not to mention, Dragon Boxes were for "Hardcore fans" and the Level sets were for everyone.
Also just found this looking back,
Funimation confirmed with ANN that sales were not a factor in its decision to discontinue production on the Dragon Ball Z Blu-rays. Funimation added that "the cost incurred to restore these shows has outweighed the suggested retail price we were able to pass along to our fans." https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... production
and sadly they're restoring is just "refreshing" and not restoring. This 30th set is burning at both ends trying to please two parts of a vastly different fanbase
Dragon Ball has a history of being "Modernized/westernized" here in the U.S. The Ocean Dub made it more "Saturday morning cartoony" and the in-house made it WWF. The orange bricks were an attempt with keeping up with that modernization because shows here were starting to get that same treatment (which continues today *the Simpsons, Seinfeld, friends*) Hence why, I brought up if anyone who has any release that isnt the original Japanese version/presentation are "fake fans"
I think the comparison if from the UUE DVD (hence launch). I also had the problem of them using the Dragon Box comparison on the Level sets trailer and stated that a few pages back. But it shows (in that trailer and the O'Hara interview) that they were proud of what they did with the level sets (only to reneg on everything later on).
I think they knew they could do whatever they want when the orange bricks sold. And again, TOEI did the same to a lesser extent and now we have to little hold for a proper release with color correction and we're even now getting green tinted modern animation and wrong color DNRed releases. At what point do we say "well, I'm not buying this?" If Dragon ball demands to be treated with love, we shouldn't be supporting any releases until we get it?
Yes but.... No
You take the raw scan, only do short crop (like level sets) and that will be hundred times better than this set.
They said that they already have all 291 episodes in raw scan films so the scanning cost isn't the matter) what is needed to be released and what aditionnal cost?
- Cropping (the new one is far than fine and they know it very well), cropping correctly cost nothing as it's a setting
- DNR is an additionnal process that no one want , even if they think it's fine, they could lower the filter so nothing more in cost
- image cleaning was done for season sets for what i know and it seems it will also be on this one , so doing it on the raw film instead of the new one is the same cost
- Color correction can be done by cheap software, they did it as this new sets don't have the same colors as the raw film, so why not doing it correctly on the raw film? cost nothing
No matter what it don't cost anything more to do it properly , what is despicable is to hide behind fake reason and lie like remaster cost but doing it properly cost nothing, it's only one time again a BIG FUCK YOU to the fans
supporting this release is supporting funimation lies and fooling custumers and that's can't be forgiven
if funimation don't want to release dragon ball properly then fans should say a BIG FUCK YOU FUNIMATION and download dragon ball series fan release
The "zooming" in the new sets are fine (albiet episode one *which I think is not that big of an issue compared to the sets other issues*)
DNRing allows hiding issues that the grain reveals from cramming in so many episodes on a disc (which is the same issue the Batman TAS set has) and thus is cost saving.
The color correction is trying to find a medium to please both fans. It's poppy but not as poppy as the season blurays and in some shots they try to make it look more like the Dragon Box (with the pinkish skintones)
Id love a raw release or Steves tranfer. (I even made covers for a proposed made on demand release years ago or having another company do a niche relese viewtopic.php?t=33490) but clearly that wont happen.
They already know that fans wanted 4/3 i remember you that the 4/3 win the poll, they CHOOSE DELIBERATELY to ignore it , only that should make you understand that it's not a matter of understanding coming from them but a matter of their own taste and marketting stuffs. Funimation know how to trick people and they make their trailers in that goal.
Season sets sold well cause it was low cost and the only full bluray release on the market.
Level sets sold bad cause it was high prices for low episodes number, meaning too much expensive for most people
when you check people opinion, level sets are the better in all point, so why they didn't buy it? the prices that's all
- Why their trailer show rock the dragon dvd instead of level sets for the cropping? because they know it's more crop
when they have made the level sets one, they use the latest release as a reference but strangely in that new trailer, you only have the season sets one and the rock the dragon one (deliberately ignoring dragon box and level sets) it show that funi like to lie and trick people with their release, THEY DELIBERATELY ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING. They know everything about grain, color correction etc that people want but they don't want to do it.
If no one would have buyed the 30th bluray, they would have probably don't release anything BUT it's better than getting countless shit cause funimation will have loose the arm wrestling against fan, now they win and know that they can do whatever they want as long as they want, there will allways be idiot to buy
I know that FUNimation disregarded the survey and thus was my whole point of " we're assuming FUNimation isn't going to find some other gimmick to repackage Dragon Ball Z, because that's what they do". They've been doing it since the Orange Brick.
Price wasn't all tho, the lack of NEP and Japanese title cards and crushed blacks also played a hand. And yes, people complained about price per-episode count and that was a huge issue as well, but I stand with what I said then now. It's still better than getting 3 episodes for about the price of one whole season (the UUE's were canceled because season boxsets were becoming popular) and the fact it was an actual full (to the best they could) remaster and that took time and money, so i think they feel now its not worth that time or money and hence why we have this 30th set. Not to mention, Dragon Boxes were for "Hardcore fans" and the Level sets were for everyone.
Also just found this looking back,
Funimation confirmed with ANN that sales were not a factor in its decision to discontinue production on the Dragon Ball Z Blu-rays. Funimation added that "the cost incurred to restore these shows has outweighed the suggested retail price we were able to pass along to our fans." https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2 ... production
and sadly they're restoring is just "refreshing" and not restoring. This 30th set is burning at both ends trying to please two parts of a vastly different fanbase
Dragon Ball has a history of being "Modernized/westernized" here in the U.S. The Ocean Dub made it more "Saturday morning cartoony" and the in-house made it WWF. The orange bricks were an attempt with keeping up with that modernization because shows here were starting to get that same treatment (which continues today *the Simpsons, Seinfeld, friends*) Hence why, I brought up if anyone who has any release that isnt the original Japanese version/presentation are "fake fans"
I think the comparison if from the UUE DVD (hence launch). I also had the problem of them using the Dragon Box comparison on the Level sets trailer and stated that a few pages back. But it shows (in that trailer and the O'Hara interview) that they were proud of what they did with the level sets (only to reneg on everything later on).
I think they knew they could do whatever they want when the orange bricks sold. And again, TOEI did the same to a lesser extent and now we have to little hold for a proper release with color correction and we're even now getting green tinted modern animation and wrong color DNRed releases. At what point do we say "well, I'm not buying this?" If Dragon ball demands to be treated with love, we shouldn't be supporting any releases until we get it?
Yes but.... No
You take the raw scan, only do short crop (like level sets) and that will be hundred times better than this set.
They said that they already have all 291 episodes in raw scan films so the scanning cost isn't the matter) what is needed to be released and what aditionnal cost?
- Cropping (the new one is far than fine and they know it very well), cropping correctly cost nothing as it's a setting
- DNR is an additionnal process that no one want , even if they think it's fine, they could lower the filter so nothing more in cost
- image cleaning was done for season sets for what i know and it seems it will also be on this one , so doing it on the raw film instead of the new one is the same cost
- Color correction can be done by cheap software, they did it as this new sets don't have the same colors as the raw film, so why not doing it correctly on the raw film? cost nothing
No matter what it don't cost anything more to do it properly , what is despicable is to hide behind fake reason and lies like remaster cost but doing it properly cost nothing, it's only one time again a BIG FUCK YOU to the fans or hire answerman to defends funimation side
if an amateur can clearly see that level sets are sharp, so called professional talking about multi gen footage only can lead to blury things is nonsense. or he is idiot , or he really trust what he said (and show how low are his technical skills) or he deliberately lie cause someone give him money for
supporting this release "joke" is supporting funimation lies and fooling custumers (what is also illegal) it's not following the right path, it's support a big scam
if funimation don't want to release dragon ball properly then fans should say a BIG FUCK YOU FUNIMATION and download it as illegaly as they are doing it themselves
This set could have fixed that, the season sets could have fixed that. Heck, FUNimation could have fixed the colors on the Dbox (didn't they reduce the greens on BuuKai?) and they didn't. Dragon Ball now has to have dub names in the subtitles, so with all this, we as fans should now not buy any Dragon ball media? If that's what you choose to do, then that's fine but I hit a point where I bought and sold so many releases of Dragon Ball Z (Singles, VHS, Dragon Boxes (US), Dragon Box singles, even an orange brick (season 2). Trying to find the perfect release just to find out none exist. Id love a color correct full grain HD all the bells and whistles but I know FUNi, this is nothing new, and they never listen, they just try to find a new way to repackage a 30 year old show and TOEI has proven to drop the ball too. In fact FUNi was open about the Season Blurays and look where we are now (https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/11/07/f ... questions/)
So I must repeat, anyone who has bought the Orange Bricks or season sets or the Ocean Dub on this forum are not real fans and are supporting FUNimation on their quest to ruin Dragon ball Z. Kanzenshuu seems to have supported such releases and I dont see this release being any worse and any more harmful (except it's actually one 1/2 steps back) https://twitter.com/kanzenshuu/status/4 ... 1747928064
Also dont find it to be honest that this site is posting affiliate links to the purchase things like the season blurays and even just supplying a link supports the release. (https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2014/03/14/d ... ring-2014/ the link for amazon amazon.com/gp/product/B00HXEWG2G/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00HXEWG2G&linkCode=as2&tag=daiex-20
Spoiler:
look for your Store ID or Tracking ID in the URL. Most often, it will appear as “&tag=(store/tracking ID)”
if we have to put our money where our mouth is, you should too.
Rejecting this release, refusing to purchase it and making it known to Funimation that we want better is fine.
Calling people out as being morons for sucking it up and going with the least worst version available is not fine and some of you need to learn to treat people with better respect than that. Kindly cease with this "you're not a true fan" nonsense please. That has always been an asinine argument.
Let's be honest with ourselves here. This is Dragon Ball Z. One of the most popular and well known anime series in the world, has appeal to audiences young and old, both in and out of the anime community and is coming off of a highly successful new series of films and a sequel series. The fact that this set didn't sell out within a couple days is a failure in my eyes. The fact that Funimation has never once mentioned the set again on any of their social media channels after the day it went live tells me that they are aware that people are frustrated about this. All that can be done for now is to continue voicing complaints to Funimation (in a respectful manner, please) and to wait and see how they handle things in the future.
Communities and deals' websites survive by getting a tip/commission from a sale done through a link with the referral ID. It's sort of like those short link urls where you wait like 5secs and then you can access the actual website page, that person is getting a tip regardless of how small it may be.
Anyway, everyone should just accept that the Dragon Ball Z: 30th Anniversary Blu-ray release is happening and it's too late to change anything. Had there been a time, it was before it reached 3000 orders.
JohnnyCashKami wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:08 pm
Communities and deals' websites survive by getting a tip/commission from a sale done through a link with the referral ID. It's sort of like those short link urls where you wait like 5secs and then you can access the actual website page, that person is getting a tip regardless of how small it may be.
Anyway, everyone should just accept that the Dragon Ball Z: 30th Anniversary Blu-ray release is happening and it's too late to change anything. Had there been a time, it was before it reached 3000 orders.
I have no problem with affiliate programs, but to sit here and support people who are bashing those who bought this and agreeing with said retoric while on the other hand, getting money from those same people who have bought releses that are worse than this 30th one is wrong. There are enough decent dragon ball related products thru amazon and cdjapan that not using a affiliate link or even linking to sets (yes it's still supporting) that damange the series could be done but wasnt because lefts face it, these sets are big sellers.
I agree. The Season Sets on DVD and Blu-ray, and the 30th Anniversary Blu-ray release should not be supported at all here but rather offer alternatives or "Wait for a proper release in the future" or "Watch Dragon Ball Kai". Dragon Ball Kai is its own product but at least it's more loyal than FUNimation's remasters will ever be.
Yes, FUNimation made an amazing Dragon Ball Z remaster but they shortly cancelled it so that kind of doesn't count.
I've been buying R1 anime for 20 years. I own probably around (or at least) 100 Funi titles. At no point have I ever felt that Funi wasn't the absolute worst US company, aside from the years when Mangle Entertainment existed. Their quality and practices are routinely dogshit (nowhere near to the same extreme as with DBZ, so at least I can still justify their purchases when heavily discounted). Even now, among the wider anime fanbase it's widely known and simply accepted (out of exhaustion) that their releases will constantly be plagued by banding and compression noise (the latter due to shitty bitrate and encoding), with DNR tomfoolery seemingly whenever they think it possible.
You guys are absolutely cracked if you think Funi cares, at all, whatsoever. Or that your frustration and anger amounts to anything more than eye rolls and laughter from their staff, thinking hardcore videophiles can never be pleased (certainly not when they've never once tried throughout the entirety of their existence), and knowing full well that the names of their properties alone are enough to catapult them to endless financial success. They don't care because they don't have to care. And given their properties and the size of the casual US anime market, they'll never have to.
Buy or don't buy this release, out of moral principle, resentment, or simply because it's sub-par as usual. But your voices are only heard in so much as Funi needs to enact some light damage control and spin, before moving on to half-ass their next release/property. Boycotting accomplishes absolutely nothing, as many of us predicted from the start of this whole affair, and has been proven time and time again with every single one of their other shitty DBZ releases. They'll make their bank no matter what.
There's an old saying in Tennessee... I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says: fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again.
Except you guys have been. About half a dozen times now. I'm not even upset about this whole thing because I was predicting it from the start, as some of you may remember. Because no shit, because this is Funi. It sucks, but that's the way it is, and it's unlikely you'll ever change that reality. I'm not necessarily saying to give up and simply accept it, as sure, voicing displeasure at least gets the issues on potential buyers' radar, and that in turn at least makes Funi stop and think for exactly one microsecond, before returning to their business as usual. But if you at least accept the reality of this shit company as most other anime fans have, then at least your perpetual lividness will be replaced with mild disdain and annoyance. Then you can roll your eyes and move on, just as I do. Because otherwise, you're just pissing into the wind, fifteen years later. Funi didn't care back then, and it still doesn't care now. Total shocker.
Sucks, but that's the reality.
Last edited by Spoofer on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Realistically speaking it doesn't matter whether people support or boycott this release, because it's likely to be the last, as far as physical media goes anyway. I just can't see them bothering to do yet another release/remaster further down the line, so whether this succeeds or fails is probably inconsequential. Super seems to be doing well as its own brand, so there will less incentive for companies to revisit Z for the millionth time.
I could see them doing an eventual 4k release. Doubt 8k will ever catch on enough to be worthwhile though, lol...
But they'll likely have the exact same mindset: "We're releasing a product on televisions that are more crystal clear than ever before. Who would want that expensive and marvelous screen muddied up with gross grain and dirt? Certainly not us! It's our duty to clean up the image and smooth it out so it shines as brightly as it possibly can! And with 4 and 8k televisions being bigger than ever before, does the average DBZ fan really want to be wasting all that precious pixel space they paid top dollar for? Prolly not. We sure wouldn't! Time to go to work to give the fans the best DBZ release possible, yet again! Praise be to Us!"
It's been their MO with the property for 13 years, after all.
The only people who seem to be going hard on this "real fan" rhetoric and actually using those words are the people feeling defensive about purchasing this set and telling other people not to say it.
We ain't made pennies on any season set Blu-rays, but OK, yeah, those links were affiliate ones...? You... got me, I guess? There are also banner ads on the forum for discussions about the English dub, about Faulconer music, and so on and so forth. That this is even a conversation is... let's be honest and clear here, absolutely absurd.
To some degree, I get the "we've seen this all and I can't be moved to have emotions" kinda thing. I talked about that very thing on the most recent podcast episode. But as someone who's literally been here with FUNimation's DBZ since Day 2, I can't get behind Spoofer's "seen it, whatever, don't care, nothing will change, nothing ever does" standpoint. We HAVE gotten things that have been sufficient/good, and we HAVE seen positive changes in the way they've produced things over the years. Rolling over does nothing, whereas at least making very clear and pointed arguments has actually accomplished a few things.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
