Should the Z-fighters split up after the Broly movie?

[zarmack]

Na. People complain about the Goku and Vegeta show but realistically, no other Z-Fighter can really hold their own in their own arc. Not in terms of strength, but in terms of interest. No one is interested enough in Roshi, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, etc for them to have their own arc. And tbh, all these characters are done developing already. Doing any more would feel kinda forced.

Speak for yourself - Krillin is my favourite Z Fighter and he was the reason I was watching original Dragon Ball back in the day. I don't give a flying f*&k about Goku, Vegeta or the Saiyans in general.

Anyways, the only reason Goku and Vegeta 'hold their own' is that the show creator(s) have brainwashed the audience into thinking that by shoving them into our throats in every single episode. If they could give us 2-3 arcs with #17, Frieza and maybe Gohan perform similar awe-inspiring feats as they did in the ToP, the audience would consider them must-have additions into every single arc afterwards. The only reason Tien isn't as popular as Vegeta is because Toriyama and Toei simply chose to treat Earthlings like garbage. DB is a shonen, and in shonen power boosts popularity. And despite that, the mere fact that Krillin still has a fandom despite the fact that he is completely useless for the past 300 episodes speaks volumes of how much of a popular character he is and his potential.

And I can't help but shake my head at the posters who play the 'fanservice' card whenever they talk about Krillin, Frieza, #17, etc. being in the series once more. As if Vegeta's role from the android saga and afterwards isn't the very DEFINITION of fanservice. The Wolverine Effect in full force.

Anyway, I said it once and I'll say it again - limiting the power level potential of Earthlings (and heck, almost all non-saiyans) was the biggest writing sin Toriyama committed. But I guess he wanted a good chunk of characters to be useless next to Goku in order to show us what an amazing, bona fine hero he is and how much everything is depending on him and that only he can do our today's Villain.

1. Its odd being a DB fan and not caring about the Saiyans. The Saiyans are objectively the most interesting and developed cast members in the franchise. Just on concept alone, they are inherently cooler than the rest of the cast, which is why even minor, one-off Saiyan characters like Nappa have big fanbases.

2. Shoving a character in the audience's face doesn't automatically make a character popular. There are many series and movies were the main character(s) are the least popular and most hated among the fans and critics.

3. Tien was relatively unpopular compared to the other main fighters even before Z (likely due to there not being much to him), and Toriyama already stopped making him relevant after the 22nd TB arc. Krillin's popularity post-Namek arc comes from being the likable weakling who still shows bravery and tries his best despite being way outclassed by nearly everyone around him (he was still relatively strong before the Android arc). And Yamcha's popularity comes from being a meme character (which was a thing even before Z).

4. And your fanservice/author bias argument holds no weight, since Toriyama made it clear that he didn't like Vegeta back in the day and only kept him around after the Saiyan arc because he thought he was narratively useful (despite being the overall 2nd most popular character in series since debut), while Piccolo (who is Toriyama's favorite character and popular in his own right) gets sidelined compared to the Saiyans.

[BWri]

Many people in the fandom are tired of DB being "The Goku show, featuring Vegeta" and want ALL of the recurring fighters to get important roles and arcs for themselves. One way this could be done is that when Super comes back to TV, have the Z-crew split up and travel to the other Universes in pairs.

Goku & Vegeta (and Broly if he survives) can go to U6 for the long awaited Planet Sadala arc with Caulifla, Cabba and Kale. Bulma might go along if them.

Gohan can go to U11 for a Pride Trooper saga. His Great Saiyaman persona and his massive potential would be perfect here, and it could give Jiren, Toppo and the other Troopers more development.

Piccolo could have his own tourney that involves Zalama, the Namekian Book of Legends and the lore around it.

A18 and Krillin could go to U2 for a Kamikaze Fireballs arc.

Freeza could go to either U9 and/or U4 to expand his empire and continue his plot to overthrow the divine hierarchy.

Future Trunks & Future Mai could go to U12 to encounter the 1st timetravel for an arc.

A17 could go to U3, Tien & Yamcha could go to U10, Roshi could go to U4, Hit and the pair of Goten & Present Trunks could each go to one of the unexplored universes (1, 5, 8 or 12)

Then they could all reunite for the series' grand finale arc, likely involving the Universes 13-18.

Any ideas?

This would be a great idea. It kinda reminds me of those One Piece arcs where the characters get split up. Early DBZ used to do this a lot too like early Saiyan and Namek arcs. I'd pair up Goku and Vegeta for the Sadala arc. Piccolo decides to go with them to visit the Namekians there and Gohan seeing how determined and solemn Piccolo is about this decides to partner up with him. That gives us an A and B Team story split.

I like your other ideas. Let's keep those and say the reason they are happening is due to a larger plot that our protagonists don't know about. Someone is trying to take out Universe 7 and they are splitting the cast up to do it. Divide and conquer. I think other people can take this idea and run with it, so I won't say any more for now cuz I think you all can add more cool stuff to it.

My dream scenario though is for Frieza to revive his former underlings, train them, and go invade universe 11 due to how Toppo treated him in the tournament. This wasn't in the manga but I don't care. I want to see Frieza and the Ginyus vs. Jiren and the Pride Troopers. In 4 months, I think these guys can take Jiren and his squad

No, because most of the “Z Fighters” shouldn’t be playing an active role in the story anymore. I see no real benefit to shoving Tenshinhan or Yamcha back into the spotlight. Their arcs are done and the Tournament of Power basically showed that there’s no meaningful ground left to tread with most of the cast.

Not that that’s a bad thing, mind you. The original series came to a complete, definitive end. This is just a byproduct of Super continuing a story that already reached its natural conclusion. That said, let’s let sleeping arcs lie.

I never understand this sort of thinking. Its rather small and shortsighted, no offense. These characters have infinite potential and when you think about it, Toriyama has barely scratched the surface with any of them. We don't know a darn thing about Tien and Yamcha when you really get down to it. All due respect to Toriyama san, but I do think he has definitely dropped the ball with many of his characters and I think he is rather limited as a storyteller when he doesn't have proper assistance, but credit where it is due, most of his characters intrigue the heck out of me and if used properly many could have a whole arc (or at least a mini-arc) to themselves if fully fleshed out.

[Nickolaidas]

1. Its odd being a DB fan and not caring about the Saiyans. The Saiyans are objectively the most interesting and developed cast members in the franchise. Just on concept alone, they are inherently cooler than the rest of the cast, which is why even minor, one-off Saiyan characters like Nappa have big fanbases.

2. Shoving a character in the audience's face doesn't automatically make a character popular. There are many series and movies were the main character(s) are the least popular and most hated among the fans and critics.

3. Tien was relatively unpopular compared to the other main fighters even before Z (likely due to there not being much to him), and Toriyama already stopped making him relevant after the 22nd TB arc. Krillin's popularity post-Namek arc comes from being the likable weakling who still shows bravery and tries his best despite being way outclassed by nearly everyone around him (he was still relatively strong before the Android arc). And Yamcha's popularity comes from being a meme character (which was a thing even before Z).

4. And your fanservice/author bias argument holds no weight, since Toriyama made it clear that he didn't like Vegeta back in the day and only kept him around after the Saiyan arc because he thought he was narratively useful (despite being the overall 2nd most popular character in series since debut), while Piccolo (who is Toriyama's favorite character and popular in his own right) gets sidelined compared to the Saiyans.

1. Their concept - for me - is an absolute bore. They just want to fight without a care in the world who pays for it in the process, and they're literal hax machines, breaking and making up rules about their PL increasing on the go, making all other races look like incompetent louts.

2. No, it doesn't automatically make them popular. But it helps. A lot.

3. Again, your opinion. I find Tien a lot more interesting than Vegeta. And you have to understand that the second a fighter character in DB is not top-tier, Toriyama immediately stops expanding him as a character. While Super did a lot of things right for the second and third tier characters, we still have a long way to go before Dragon Ball makes itself as well as the fandom understand that power =/= everything and characters can still do shit and be interesting even if they don't become SSGSS.

4. Actually, you kind of making my point here. Toriyama didn't like Vegeta but I bet he was 'forced' to use him more and more because he was the 2nd most popular character (I have read that interview as well where he talks about Vegeta). But, I - personally - refuse to believe that Vegeta doing what he did and having the presence he had in the Cell and Boo sagas didn't have anything to do with his popularity and it was just because Toriyama wanted to kill off #19 and the Ginew force in order for Goku's hands to stay clean. Or because he wanted to help Cell get perfect (as if he couldn't have Trunks stall somewhere and allow semi-perfect Cell to absorb 18 without anyone contesting him).

[zarmack]

1. Its odd being a DB fan and not caring about the Saiyans. The Saiyans are objectively the most interesting and developed cast members in the franchise. Just on concept alone, they are inherently cooler than the rest of the cast, which is why even minor, one-off Saiyan characters like Nappa have big fanbases.

2. Shoving a character in the audience's face doesn't automatically make a character popular. There are many series and movies were the main character(s) are the least popular and most hated among the fans and critics.

3. Tien was relatively unpopular compared to the other main fighters even before Z (likely due to there not being much to him), and Toriyama already stopped making him relevant after the 22nd TB arc. Krillin's popularity post-Namek arc comes from being the likable weakling who still shows bravery and tries his best despite being way outclassed by nearly everyone around him (he was still relatively strong before the Android arc). And Yamcha's popularity comes from being a meme character (which was a thing even before Z).

4. And your fanservice/author bias argument holds no weight, since Toriyama made it clear that he didn't like Vegeta back in the day and only kept him around after the Saiyan arc because he thought he was narratively useful (despite being the overall 2nd most popular character in series since debut), while Piccolo (who is Toriyama's favorite character and popular in his own right) gets sidelined compared to the Saiyans.

1. Their concept - for me - is an absolute bore. They just want to fight without a care in the world who pays for it in the process, and they're literal hax machines, breaking and making up rules about their PL increasing on the go, making all other races look like incompetent louts.

2. No, it doesn't automatically make them popular. But it helps. A lot.

3. Again, your opinion. I find Tien a lot more interesting than Vegeta. And you have to understand that the second a fighter character in DB is not top-tier, Toriyama immediately stops expanding him as a character. While Super did a lot of things right for the second and third tier characters, we still have a long way to go before Dragon Ball makes itself as well as the fandom understand that power =/= everything and characters can still do shit and be interesting even if they don't become SSGSS.

4. Actually, you kind of making my point here. Toriyama didn't like Vegeta but I bet he was 'forced' to use him more and more because he was the 2nd most popular character (I have read that interview as well where he talks about Vegeta). But, I - personally - refuse to believe that Vegeta doing what he did and having the presence he had in the Cell and Boo sagas didn't have anything to do with his popularity and it was just because Toriyama wanted to kill off #19 and the Ginew force in order for Goku's hands to stay clean. Or because he wanted to help Cell get perfect (as if he couldn't have Trunks stall somewhere and allow semi-perfect Cell to absorb 18 without anyone contesting him).

1. Saiyans fit the theme of the series (and the genre) more than everyone else in the franchise.

2. Then explain why Future Trunks and Bardock (who each before Super only appeared in one arc or movie) remained so popular over the years without being in the spotlight?

3. Tien is a 2nd rate Hit. The only time he was ever interesting was when he was the main villain (22nd TB arc). And Tien was still in the top-tiers of power in the Piccolo/23rd TB arcs, yet Toriyama stopped developing him there. Roshi, Krillin and Yamcha as well as pretty much any Saiyan all have more personality to them than Tien does.

4. Then you are in denial. Nobody "forced" Toriyama to keep using Vegeta. That's just as stupid as the myth that Toriyama was "forced" to make Goku the hero again in the Buu saga, or that he was "forced" to keep writing the series after the Namek arc. These myths have been debunked hundreds of times.

[BWri]

3. Tien is a 2nd rate Hit. The only time he was ever interesting was when he was the main villain (22nd TB arc). And Tien was still in the top-tiers of power in the Piccolo/23rd TB arcs, yet Toriyama stopped developing him there. Roshi, Krillin and Yamcha as well as pretty much any Saiyan all have more personality to them than Tien does.

Hit is essentially Tien done over. It's like Toriyama basically reintroduced Tien into the series with a new look and new techniques. Their personalities are very similar and neither are fully fleshed out. Hit is even less fleshed out than Tien, since at least Tien had a major character arc in his introduction. Outside of cool factor (and Hit is a really REALLY cool character), Hit is really just a second rate Tien. His personality is even flatter than the Triclops, who at least had personality back in DB and early DBZ and the wow factor of his techniques doesn't even last as long as Tien's who had a presence throughout his whole tournament arc and not just at the end like Hit. Tien was so good that they gave Krillin all his gimmicks. The main difference in the two characters is that Hit can give the top tiers somewhat of a challenge while Tien cannot. Well, that and Toei and Toriyama have hollowed out Tien's character more and more as the series progressed due to indifference and poor memory. We all know power = popularity in this franchise so Toriyama and Toei can just keep recycling beloved character archetypes as new characters, change them up ever so slightly, and give them bigger numbers to keep us interested. Its great sleight of hand

[PFM18]

No, because most of the “Z Fighters” shouldn’t be playing an active role in the story anymore. I see no real benefit to shoving Tenshinhan or Yamcha back into the spotlight. Their arcs are done and the Tournament of Power basically showed that there’s no meaningful ground left to tread with most of the cast.

Not that that’s a bad thing, mind you. The original series came to a complete, definitive end. This is just a byproduct of Super continuing a story that already reached its natural conclusion. That said, let’s let sleeping arcs lie.

What is so fundamentally wrong with continuing the original series?

[Kataphrut]

Anything can happen. We already got mini-arcs for characters like Gohan, Krillin and Roshi in the Tournament of Power and big focus on Freeza and 17. That, plus the group showing up to help in Resurrection F (as opposed to Cell and Buu where every non-Saiyan cowards out by the end) suggests Toriyama is interested in using the old favourites, but only in certain situations and as supporting characters. Which is fine. Like it or not, Goku and Vegeta are the protagonists, the best most of the others can hope for is an elevated secondary role in an arc. Trunks got it, Gohan, Freeza and 17 got it. Maybe they’ll eventually find a use for Piccolo again, who knows.

[Waluigiman]

Many people in the fandom are tired of DB being "The Goku show, featuring Vegeta" and want ALL of the recurring fighters to get important roles and arcs for themselves. One way this could be done is that when Super comes back to TV, have the Z-crew split up and travel to the other Universes in pairs.

Goku & Vegeta (and Broly if he survives) can go to U6 for the long awaited Planet Sadala arc with Caulifla, Cabba and Kale. Bulma might go along if them.

Gohan can go to U11 for a Pride Trooper saga. His Great Saiyaman persona and his massive potential would be perfect here, and it could give Jiren, Toppo and the other Troopers more development.

Piccolo could have his own tourney that involves Zalama, the Namekian Book of Legends and the lore around it.

A18 and Krillin could go to U2 for a Kamikaze Fireballs arc.

Freeza could go to either U9 and/or U4 to expand his empire and continue his plot to overthrow the divine hierarchy.

Future Trunks & Future Mai could go to U12 to encounter the 1st timetravel for an arc.

A17 could go to U3, Tien & Yamcha could go to U10, Roshi could go to U4, Hit and the pair of Goten & Present Trunks could each go to one of the unexplored universes (1, 5, 8 or 12)

Then they could all reunite for the series' grand finale arc, likely involving the Universes 13-18.

Any ideas?

like this idea. So in order to be perfect all it needs is a reason of why some of them are doing this.

As an alternative they should just randomly select like 5 characters along with Goku. This will easily will help the existing characters have more depth and will make them more likeable if done right. I really wanted to see Majin Buu interact with the androids or have Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha, and Tien interact with each other again. Something like Dragon Ball fighterz would be nice to see.

[Michsi]

I haven't read the entire thread, but a response I've seen here a couple of times is that old characters should be retired because they are already fleshed out and have nothing else to offer - by that logic Goku and Vegeta should be retired as well since, aside from new color coded transformations, there's nothing new being done with them either.

As for the topic itself- it's a nice thought, and One Piece managed to pull that off, but I'm not sure about DB. In order for each character to have a proper side story, you need to have writers interested in making those, and it's already been confirmed that there's this idea within the studio that if Goku is not on the screen, people lose interest.

[zarmack]

I haven't read the entire thread, but a response I've seen here a couple of times is that old characters should be retired because they are already fleshed out and have nothing else to offer - by that logic Goku and Vegeta should be retired as well since, aside from new color coded transformations, there's nothing new being done with them either.

As for the topic itself- it's a nice thought, and One Piece managed to pull that off, but I'm not sure about DB. In order for each character to have a proper side story, you need to have writers interested in making those, and it's already been confirmed that there's this idea within the studio that if Goku is not on the screen, people lose interest.

Takao Koyama was the type of writer who could give other characters (besides Goku) their own main stories. He was the one who wrote the Piccolo & Vegeta side stories. Aya Matsui (the head writer for GT) wrote the Future Trunks side story.

[snpaa]

Ideally yes from a story telling perspective , I mean look at hunter x hunter togashi make's sure to flesh out even the most seemingly insignificant character and gives them task to which helps keep the characters interesting and seem like a fully functioning character instead of a one note lazy archtype that serves one purpose for the particular arc they are in. but if you're looking for support for this idea on this forum just take in note that dragon ball just tries to pander to the lowest common denominator(fan service) now so fans expectations have changed. Some people would rather have the same content with a new pallete slapped on and superficial growth, rinse and repeat ad nausem.

I'm personally not expecting anything of value from the sadala arc, since dragonball super has not improved on their story telling ability at all, if anything I can predict that it's just gonna be goku and vegeta curb stomping the villians of universe 6 while all the other saiyans in that universe have their mouths agape sprinkle in beerus and whis just to help remove any tension or the thought that something irreversibly bad could happen.

[Michsi]

Takao Koyama was the type of writer who could give other characters (besides Goku) their own main stories. He was the one who wrote the Piccolo & Vegeta side stories. Aya Matsui (the head writer for GT) wrote the Future Trunks side story.

It was still based on what was being done with them in the main story-line, so the writers didn't have too much freedom. When I say writers I mean both Toriyama and Toei writers, as this time around it's a collective effort, so there seems to be lack on interest from both sides.

[AnzuMazaki]

As a fan of the people of earth, I will say this and I will say this only once.

I want to see the humans fight again, I want to see Yamcha, Kuririn , Tenshinhan, Chaozu and Yajirobe travel to other universes if they have too.
I know their character arcs have been finished since Cell arc at the very latest, but I want to see the Z-Fighters have some relevance in future Super Arcs and not be three party goers and a meme.

I have now given my two cents.

[TobyS]

This would be rad but they won't do it.

Just like the anime top everyone will stand around and wait for Goku before they. At best, share the spotlight with him (creating timing and continuity problems.)

Goku and Vegeta will visit the other unis one by one and we will be lucky if they bring anyone else along at all.

[ruler9871]

Many people in the fandom are tired of DB being "The Goku show, featuring Vegeta" and want ALL of the recurring fighters to get important roles and arcs for themselves. One way this could be done is that when Super comes back to TV, have the Z-crew split up and travel to the other Universes in pairs.

Goku & Vegeta (and Broly if he survives) can go to U6 for the long awaited Planet Sadala arc with Caulifla, Cabba and Kale. Bulma might go along if them.

Gohan can go to U11 for a Pride Trooper saga. His Great Saiyaman persona and his massive potential would be perfect here, and it could give Jiren, Toppo and the other Troopers more development.

Piccolo could have his own tourney that involves Zalama, the Namekian Book of Legends and the lore around it.

A18 and Krillin could go to U2 for a Kamikaze Fireballs arc.

Freeza could go to either U9 and/or U4 to expand his empire and continue his plot to overthrow the divine hierarchy.

Future Trunks & Future Mai could go to U12 to encounter the 1st timetravel for an arc.

A17 could go to U3, Tien & Yamcha could go to U10, Roshi could go to U4, Hit and the pair of Goten & Present Trunks could each go to one of the unexplored universes (1, 5, 8 or 12)

Then they could all reunite for the series' grand finale arc, likely involving the Universes 13-18.

Any ideas?

These are all great ideas. Idk why anyone would disagree.

[Dbzfan94]

No, because they are boring and uninteresting. I'd rather see them go to U6 and train with the new superior saiyans.

I feel like U6 Saiyans are the boring ones. If we never saw them again I’d be happy.


But unrelated to what you said, I don’t want Freeza to do anything. Toriyama and Toei slowly adding Freeza to the main cast legit hurts. I hate it so much.

[ruler9871]

No, because they are boring and uninteresting. I'd rather see them go to U6 and train with the new superior saiyans.

I feel like U6 Saiyans are the boring ones. If we never saw them again I’d be happy.


But unrelated to what you said, I don’t want Freeza to do anything. Toriyama and Toei slowly adding Freeza to the main cast legit hurts. I hate it so much.

The U6 Saiyans have more personality and appeal than most of the original cast.

[Rubens]

Or simply, if Goku, Vegeta and few others left to visit universe 6, something could happen in universe 7 that forces the remaining z warriors to step up and fight some threat, relying on themselves alone.

That's two arcs in one go.

[Dbzfan94]

No, because they are boring and uninteresting. I'd rather see them go to U6 and train with the new superior saiyans.

I feel like U6 Saiyans are the boring ones. If we never saw them again I’d be happy.


But unrelated to what you said, I don’t want Freeza to do anything. Toriyama and Toei slowly adding Freeza to the main cast legit hurts. I hate it so much.

The U6 Saiyans have more personality and appeal than most of the original cast.

Completely disagree.

Strong Tarble, Female Goku and Female Broly aren't really appealing to me.

[DestructoDisc]

Many people in the fandom are tired of DB being "The Goku show, featuring Vegeta" and want ALL of the recurring fighters to get important roles and arcs for themselves. One way this could be done is that when Super comes back to TV, have the Z-crew split up and travel to the other Universes in pairs.

Goku & Vegeta (and Broly if he survives) can go to U6 for the long awaited Planet Sadala arc with Caulifla, Cabba and Kale. Bulma might go along if them.

Gohan can go to U11 for a Pride Trooper saga. His Great Saiyaman persona and his massive potential would be perfect here, and it could give Jiren, Toppo and the other Troopers more development.

Piccolo could have his own tourney that involves Zalama, the Namekian Book of Legends and the lore around it.

A18 and Krillin could go to U2 for a Kamikaze Fireballs arc.

Freeza could go to either U9 and/or U4 to expand his empire and continue his plot to overthrow the divine hierarchy.

Future Trunks & Future Mai could go to U12 to encounter the 1st timetravel for an arc.

A17 could go to U3, Tien & Yamcha could go to U10, Roshi could go to U4, Hit and the pair of Goten & Present Trunks could each go to one of the unexplored universes (1, 5, 8 or 12)

Then they could all reunite for the series' grand finale arc, likely involving the Universes 13-18.

Any ideas?

I like these ideas. Only thing I would change is have 17 go with 18 and Krillin to Universe 2. Heck, maybe even take Marron with them too, to show Ribrianne and her crew what came out of 18's love with Krillin.