Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
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- Grand Marshal 1
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Random opinion: End of FT arc Blue Goku=Pre ToP Blue Goku.
He never got any stronger and he even stated that he was getting rusty and although this can be interpreted in many different ways, this is what I get. So even if he did become slightly stronger, his statement would make it like he was even below his FT arc power. (And to be honest, I doubt that he reached his peak power from the FT arc, while against Merged Zamasu, until the fight with Jiren, KK out of the equation).
No need for hundreds or thousands of times for someone to get stronger. Anyway, I went off point. But yes, if a character can become stronger, they can become weaker too.
Random opinion 2: KK×10 Blue (TotD arc) > any Blue incarnatiom prior to the ToP, except from Blue KK used against Merged Zamasu, which is equal to it.
I find it unlikely that Blue Goku from the FT arc was above his KK×10 Blue from the TotD arc. That was a limit at the time. In the meantime he could only try and master the stable variant of said form, and get stronger to face off against new opponents, but nowhere near that level.
I think that his power became comparable in the FT arc, when he activated a normal KK on top of his full power as Blue, which is above pretty much all the incarnations of Blue (plus the Quake of Fury variant), before the ToP comes and gives some zenkais.
He never got any stronger and he even stated that he was getting rusty and although this can be interpreted in many different ways, this is what I get. So even if he did become slightly stronger, his statement would make it like he was even below his FT arc power. (And to be honest, I doubt that he reached his peak power from the FT arc, while against Merged Zamasu, until the fight with Jiren, KK out of the equation).
No need for hundreds or thousands of times for someone to get stronger. Anyway, I went off point. But yes, if a character can become stronger, they can become weaker too.
Random opinion 2: KK×10 Blue (TotD arc) > any Blue incarnatiom prior to the ToP, except from Blue KK used against Merged Zamasu, which is equal to it.
I find it unlikely that Blue Goku from the FT arc was above his KK×10 Blue from the TotD arc. That was a limit at the time. In the meantime he could only try and master the stable variant of said form, and get stronger to face off against new opponents, but nowhere near that level.
I think that his power became comparable in the FT arc, when he activated a normal KK on top of his full power as Blue, which is above pretty much all the incarnations of Blue (plus the Quake of Fury variant), before the ToP comes and gives some zenkais.
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- wolflonnie
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Annoyed by Beerus. Which started to happen more and more towards the end of Super.Kenneth La Torre wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 2:08 am You know. In the situation that UI Goku battles beerus, and loses, or barely edges out a fight, I wonder how people who put UI Goku far above beerus would feel. It's not like the rematch would be one sided at all.
- PerhapsTheOtherOne
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I do seriously hope we'll see Beerus stop being put on a pedestal. It's crazy enough that he's in the same ballpark as SSB Fusion, and I feel like we need to dial down the crazy for the time being.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I don't mind Beerus still being a powerhouse, but not to the extent of overshadowing both the other GoDs and other stabilished powerhouses like SSFP Broly, the SSB Fusions, MUI Goku and Jiren.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Goku got stronger. He told Freeza so after they both KO'd each other. Not to mention before that he fought in the exhibition matches and trained a little bit with Whis in the gravity chamber.Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am Random opinion: End of FT arc Blue Goku=Pre ToP Blue Goku.
He never got any stronger and he even stated that he was getting rusty and although this can be interpreted in many different ways, this is what I get. So even if he did become slightly stronger, his statement would make it like he was even below his FT arc power. (And to be honest, I doubt that he reached his peak power from the FT arc, while against Merged Zamasu, until the fight with Jiren, KK out of the equation).
No need for hundreds or thousands of times for someone to get stronger. Anyway, I went off point. But yes, if a character can become stronger, they can become weaker too.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I recall Goku training with Whis and some blows exchanged with Buu, Gohan, 17, etc which count as some sort of work out, but about Goku's comment, wasn't it regarding the last time they met, meaning RoF? there is no doubt about that.Miracles wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 2:55 pmGoku got stronger. He told Freeza so after they both KO'd each other. Not to mention before that he fought in the exhibition matches and trained a little bit with Whis in the gravity chamber.Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am Random opinion: End of FT arc Blue Goku=Pre ToP Blue Goku.
He never got any stronger and he even stated that he was getting rusty and although this can be interpreted in many different ways, this is what I get. So even if he did become slightly stronger, his statement would make it like he was even below his FT arc power. (And to be honest, I doubt that he reached his peak power from the FT arc, while against Merged Zamasu, until the fight with Jiren, KK out of the equation).
No need for hundreds or thousands of times for someone to get stronger. Anyway, I went off point. But yes, if a character can become stronger, they can become weaker too.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
All that transpired since RoF until they met again before the TOP.Koitsukai wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 4:07 pmI recall Goku training with Whis and some blows exchanged with Buu, Gohan, 17, etc which count as some sort of work out, but about Goku's comment, wasn't it regarding the last time they met, meaning RoF? there is no doubt about that.Miracles wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 2:55 pmGoku got stronger. He told Freeza so after they both KO'd each other. Not to mention before that he fought in the exhibition matches and trained a little bit with Whis in the gravity chamber.Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am Random opinion: End of FT arc Blue Goku=Pre ToP Blue Goku.
He never got any stronger and he even stated that he was getting rusty and although this can be interpreted in many different ways, this is what I get. So even if he did become slightly stronger, his statement would make it like he was even below his FT arc power. (And to be honest, I doubt that he reached his peak power from the FT arc, while against Merged Zamasu, until the fight with Jiren, KK out of the equation).
No need for hundreds or thousands of times for someone to get stronger. Anyway, I went off point. But yes, if a character can become stronger, they can become weaker too.
- ZombieVito
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
While I do agree that Goku got a stronger (He mastered Kaioken after all), he was referring in that quote to his RoF self since that was the last time Freeza saw him.Miracles wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 2:55 pmGoku got stronger. He told Freeza so after they both KO'd each other. Not to mention before that he fought in the exhibition matches and trained a little bit with Whis in the gravity chamber.Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am Random opinion: End of FT arc Blue Goku=Pre ToP Blue Goku.
He never got any stronger and he even stated that he was getting rusty and although this can be interpreted in many different ways, this is what I get. So even if he did become slightly stronger, his statement would make it like he was even below his FT arc power. (And to be honest, I doubt that he reached his peak power from the FT arc, while against Merged Zamasu, until the fight with Jiren, KK out of the equation).
No need for hundreds or thousands of times for someone to get stronger. Anyway, I went off point. But yes, if a character can become stronger, they can become weaker too.
- Kenneth La Torre
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Some "leaks" (not really leaks, more like reactions) about the next chapter has come out. What MShadows from naruto forums got from it was that this arc will likely conclude rather soon, and that possibly Moro isn't the main threat, or isn't a main threat, don't know which one it is.
Tho since this is a power scaling thread, let's talk about this.
To me, I think we are not going to be seeing hakaishin+ level antagonists lioe Broly or Jiren for a while. I feel like UI and Fusion will sit out for a while, and without them, they aren't scrarching any of the hakaishins any time soon. I'm probably wrong, but the Moro arc is giving me a feeling that's how it's going to be for now, until a big major arc. I feel like Goku will have his rematch with beerus first before stepping into a territory higher than Jiren or Broly.
Tho since this is a power scaling thread, let's talk about this.
To me, I think we are not going to be seeing hakaishin+ level antagonists lioe Broly or Jiren for a while. I feel like UI and Fusion will sit out for a while, and without them, they aren't scrarching any of the hakaishins any time soon. I'm probably wrong, but the Moro arc is giving me a feeling that's how it's going to be for now, until a big major arc. I feel like Goku will have his rematch with beerus first before stepping into a territory higher than Jiren or Broly.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Goku said "WHILE FREEZA WAS IN HELL..."He has been fighting strong guys from other universes. That includes the exhibition matches, that means all that has happened during Freeza's stay in Hell. Not just referring to his RoF self.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 12:16 amWhile I do agree that Goku got a stronger (He mastered Kaioken after all), he was referring in that quote to his RoF self since that was the last time Freeza saw him.Miracles wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 2:55 pmGoku got stronger. He told Freeza so after they both KO'd each other. Not to mention before that he fought in the exhibition matches and trained a little bit with Whis in the gravity chamber.Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am Random opinion: End of FT arc Blue Goku=Pre ToP Blue Goku.
He never got any stronger and he even stated that he was getting rusty and although this can be interpreted in many different ways, this is what I get. So even if he did become slightly stronger, his statement would make it like he was even below his FT arc power. (And to be honest, I doubt that he reached his peak power from the FT arc, while against Merged Zamasu, until the fight with Jiren, KK out of the equation).
No need for hundreds or thousands of times for someone to get stronger. Anyway, I went off point. But yes, if a character can become stronger, they can become weaker too.
- ZombieVito
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Maybe I was confusing.Miracles wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 3:22 pmGoku said "WHILE FREEZA WAS IN HELL..."He has been fighting strong guys from other universes. That includes the exhibition matches, that means all that has happened during Freeza's stay in Hell. Not just referring to his RoF self.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 12:16 amWhile I do agree that Goku got a stronger (He mastered Kaioken after all), he was referring in that quote to his RoF self since that was the last time Freeza saw him.
All I'm trying to say is that Goku could have not gotten stronger after the FT arc and that line still works.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Was there ever a clear statement in or outside the series of how much stronger Whis is compared to Beerus?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
That was retconned (and only applies to the Z movie version). I'm talking about generally how much stronger the Angels are compared to the Hakaishin.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
How can something Toriyama came up with be "retconned" unless he did so himself? Was it ever stated that the movie scale is retconned?
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Though never directly stated by an official source, the numbers Toriyama came up to SSGod and Beerus are difficult to reconcile with the events of Dragon Ball Super, because that would require Goku to be at less than 10 by the time he prepares to fight Jiren.
Since Goku fought Beerus, he has acquired SSBlue and on top of that he blended Blue with kaioken in the anime, which literally multiplies battle power, making it impossible for Goku to be still weaker than Beerus, despite having direct implications that he was still weaker.
The manga is a little easier to reconcile, because it doesn’t have kaioken in it, and SSGod is still implied to rival the Gods, despite having stronger forms.
Since Goku fought Beerus, he has acquired SSBlue and on top of that he blended Blue with kaioken in the anime, which literally multiplies battle power, making it impossible for Goku to be still weaker than Beerus, despite having direct implications that he was still weaker.
The manga is a little easier to reconcile, because it doesn’t have kaioken in it, and SSGod is still implied to rival the Gods, despite having stronger forms.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
All that means is goku rivals/surpasses beerus in power now which is obvious when you factor in MUI in which case he definitely surpasses and most likely one shots.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 1:15 pm Though never directly stated by an official source, the numbers Toriyama came up to SSGod and Beerus are difficult to reconcile with the events of Dragon Ball Super, because that would require Goku to be at less than 10 by the time he prepares to fight Jiren.
Since Goku fought Beerus, he has acquired SSBlue and on top of that he blended Blue with kaioken in the anime, which literally multiplies battle power, making it impossible for Goku to be still weaker than Beerus, despite having direct implications that he was still weaker.
The manga is a little easier to reconcile, because it doesn’t have kaioken in it, and SSGod is still implied to rival the Gods, despite having stronger forms.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
There's no way the 6-10-15 scale from the BoG movie is still valid, because even if you downplay SSB to being only 2x SSG, it would still mean that Goku & Vegeta surpassed Beerus in RoF.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
The scale don't need to be read like that, but yeah. Godku being a 6 makes no sense anymore since it's been regarded in Super as useless against a serious GoD, both in the ToP and Broly.
With Blue being unable to match a suppressed Jiren and a SS Broly, it's also pretty clear it's no match either against the active Gods of Destruction. And then there's the curbstomp Vegeta receives from Beerus.
With Blue being unable to match a suppressed Jiren and a SS Broly, it's also pretty clear it's no match either against the active Gods of Destruction. And then there's the curbstomp Vegeta receives from Beerus.
- PerhapsTheOtherOne
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
There's also the fact that only SSB Fusions are implied to truly rival Gods of Destruction in raw power.
And with said Fusions having base forms equal to their fusees' god forms, it really plays up just how bloated things have become.
And with said Fusions having base forms equal to their fusees' god forms, it really plays up just how bloated things have become.