LightBing wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm
In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.
UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.
He is hitting harder, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hurt Jiren. Just dodge since Goku at his max couldn't do a thing against Jiren.
"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.
Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.
The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.
LightBing wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm
In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.
UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.
He is hitting harder, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hurt Jiren. Just dodge since Goku at his max couldn't do a thing against Jiren.
"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.
Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.
The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.
Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.
I went back to read the chapter, and you're right. UI Goku was never attacking directly, only counter-attacking whenever Jiren missed.
Furthermore, Jiren's dialogue makes all the more sense when you interpret UI Goku's style as exploiting Jiren's open/blind spots.
LightBing wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm
In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.
UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.
He is hitting harder, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hurt Jiren. Just dodge since Goku at his max couldn't do a thing against Jiren.
"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.
Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.
The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.
Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.
As we have seen in Dragon Ball, even if Goku was hitting weak spots, it wouldn't done anything if his power didn't go up since Jiren was tanking blows from even Vegeta's new Blue form. So yes, Goku hit harder in UI.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
HeroR wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:36 pm
As we have seen in Dragon Ball, even if Goku was hitting weak spots, it wouldn't done anything if his power didn't go up since Jiren was tanking blows from even Vegeta's new Blue form. So yes, Goku hit harder in UI.
What I've seen in Dragon Ball is weaker characters doing damage to stronger ones when their guard isn't up. This usually never results on a win because immediately the stronger character stops messing around and/or the damage isn't enough.
Ex: Yamcha's Spirit ball vs Kami, Piccolo kicking Freeza, Vegeta vs Cell, hell Kuririn throwing panties to distract Jackie Chun almost won him the match and it was the only hit he landed.
Tanking blows is the opposite of what Jiren was doing against UI Goku, the comparison has nothing to with this...
By tanking Jiren had no weakness exposed, against Goku he was being taken advantage of.
He would have won or at least tied if all he did was tank but since the time was running out he was forced to attack.
Rakurai wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2019 9:47 am
You'd be better off waiting for Lee to start writing that Jump Force manga.
really? I didn't know, it sounds interesting
LightBing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:01 pm"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.
Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.
The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.
Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.
I not think see any sense that the UI does not make you more powerful but if it were not, I would not have the power to hurt Jiren and if it were not faster I could not avoid Jiren, even though I have the ability to evade.
HeroR wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:36 pm
As we have seen in Dragon Ball, even if Goku was hitting weak spots, it wouldn't done anything if his power didn't go up since Jiren was tanking blows from even Vegeta's new Blue form. So yes, Goku hit harder in UI.
What I've seen in Dragon Ball is weaker characters doing damage to stronger ones when their guard isn't up. This usually never results on a win because immediately the stronger character stops messing around and/or the damage isn't enough.
Ex: Yamcha's Spirit ball vs Kami, Piccolo kicking Freeza, Vegeta vs Cell, hell Kuririn throwing panties to distract Jackie Chun almost won him the match and it was the only hit he landed.
Tanking blows is the opposite of what Jiren was doing against UI Goku, the comparison has nothing to with this...
By tanking Jiren had no weakness exposed, against Goku he was being taken advantage of.
He would have won or at least tied if all he did was tank but since the time was running out he was forced to attack.
So you're saying that Jiren's guard wasn't up while facing UI Goku when Jiren himself said that he always fight at his best to Vegeta? Because those situations you named is specifically when the person put their guard down, now when someone strikes them in mid-combat.
The point is that Vegeta even with his power-up couldn't damaged Jiren despite Jiren being surprised by the power-up, yet UI Goku floored him in a few hits. So even if we say UI Goku was only as strong as a power-up Vegeta in his new form, that still makes UI a power-up since Vegeta's new form is beyond Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
Does anyone have an image of the full DBS manga spineart up to the current volume? I could only find one online going up to volume 5 so it's missing volumes 6-9. Thanks.
LightBing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:01 pm"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.
Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.
The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.
Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.
I not think see any sense that the UI does not make you more powerful but if it were not, I would not have the power to hurt Jiren and if it were not faster I could not avoid Jiren, even though I have the ability to evade.
The way that Ultra Instinct has always been described is not as a power boost. UI Goku was counterattacking Jiren, in other words hitting Jiren when his guard was down. Of course, it wasn't always the case that he could get an effective hit simply because Jiren could tank them some time after the blows connected.
Skar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:12 am
Does anyone have an image of the full DBS manga spineart up to the current volume? I could only find one online going up to volume 5 so it's missing volumes 6-9. Thanks.
Here's my DBS manga collection. It's missing the special Vol. 5 cover with FTrunks in it, but it is what it is.
Thani wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:57 pm
Honestly, that could be very well just Jiren whining because Goku's attacks are now hurting him.
It's clear that Goku's attacks are hurting him or at least having an effect, there's no doubt about that. But it's UI Goku's fighting style, coupled with the fact that he says this:
"Attacks that exploit openings in an opponent... is not true strength!"
that leads Jiren to whine. And it's all what UI is about.
I think a lot of the issue here is people are conflating anime Jiren with manga Jiren. They're two VERY different characters, and anime Jiren is far stronger. In the manga, Jiren has to actually try while fighting people, and isn't portrayed as being insurmountable. In fact, when he fought Hit he won by exploiting an opening for a split second, instead of just overwhelming him with force like in the anime.
To put this into arbitrary numerical scales (because that always goes well in dragonball discussion, amirite?), Anime Jiren is a 10 while everyone else are 6s; Manga Jiren is a 10 while everyone else are 8s and 9s.
Anyway, when Goku went Ultra Instinct (in the manga), he didn't get a power boost. Jiren was already taking damage from blue-level fighters before Goku transformed, so it wasn't an increase in power that made Jiren start losing, but a change in technique. Goku always had the power necessary to hurt him. Even with Ultra Instinct, Jiren was still powerful enough to match up against Goku by using pure brute force.
You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.
Rakurai wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:26 pmHere's my DBS manga collection. It's missing the special Vol. 5 cover with FTrunks in it, but it is what it is.
Spoiler:
Thanks! I was curious if all seven Dragonballs had appeared in the spineart by now. Is it possible that the manga is coming to an end soon? I suppose it depends on the spineart of next two volumes. If they complete the image for Champa, Vados, and Hit without showing other characters then that might be it.
I'm kind of curious as to if at some point before the anime returns they would try to have Toyotaro alter his artstyle to more closely match Shintani's new look for the franchise.
Chuquita wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:37 pm
I'm kind of curious as to if at some point before the anime returns they would try to have Toyotaro alter his artstyle to more closely match Shintani's new look for the franchise.
I don't think Toyotaro was following Yamamuro's style, there is not really a reason for him to follow Shintani's either.
For as much as people tend to bash him about the manga, it's not like his art is horrendous.
As long as his stuff is consistent, it should be fine, I guess?
If he does indeed end up changing up his style, I'd say it'd be more gradual, kinda like how Toriyama took years to change up how he draws stuff.
What are you guys predictions for this arc climax?
You think Moro might just end up in a prison so Lula could break free and reveal himself to be the real threat?
Lord Beerus wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 3:17 pmThe anime may have beaten Toyotaro to punch and shown the wonderfully whimsical combat capabilities of Majin Boo, but that didn't make Majin Boo beat-down of Moro any less great to watch.
Oh for sure, like a SSJ3-tier at best being able to push a guy that handled both blue Gods Goku and Vegeta is totally fine.
Noitsnothim wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 1:32 am
So can anyone tell me why Dragon Ball Super only releases a chapter once a month and not every 2 weeks?
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Noah wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:08 pmOh for sure, like a SSJ3-tier at best being able to push a guy that handled both blue Gods Goku and Vegeta is totally fine
You missed how Buu got a power boost from unlocking Dai Kai's memories inside him.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Noah wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:08 pm
You think Moro might just end up in a prison so Lula could break free and reveal himself to be the real threat?
Holy Shit, I think that was the best sentence about this arc I've ever read hahahaha
About Buu, well, Daikaioshin indeed WAS "God-tier" before beating Moro the first time. But after sacrificing most of his power, he became weaker than South Kaioshin and, thus, vulnerable to Buu.
I think it's both. Since Good Buu still has both Kaioshin inside of him, plus being physically the same kind of being as the original Majin Buu, he has a lot of potential power. He probably regained some power from both kais, plus unlocking his own inner potential, PLUS being virtually immune to most of Moro's spells (remember tho, he was physically impaled by Moro, which suggest they are physically close enough that one can harm the other). All that combined with his regeneration allowed him to overwhelm Moro, methinks
All I'm saying is this arc better not be anywhere near a climax. If anything, this should be the first act setting up the interesting stuff to come. Otherwise, it'll easily be the worst manga arc.
You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.
