The latter is far more of a problem then the former honestly.sintzu wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:08 amThe problem is that it plays things way too safe and won't get out of Z's nostalgic shadow.Soppa Saia People wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:54 ami have tried to avoid most super stuff just because i have no interest, but isn't this like a common sentiment ? it seems like the overall consensus on super is "eh".
Unpopular DB opinions
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I think they are equally a problem. Both bring terrible things to the table.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I have to agree. Something safe wouldn't be so bad (it's still an issue) if it at least tried to be original. What makes things worse is that what Super takes from the past ends up being worse than the original. As much as I want 2uper to be original, I can't help but think that's unrealistic thanks to Broly's success.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
both was trained to be "invincible"Gaffer Tape wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:21 amI'm afraid I can't quite see that comparison. While they are both rather empty shells, at least Ivan Drago is actually intimidating. At least Ivan Drago, in killing Apollo, actually does something to emotionally affect the hero and the audience.
both are muscular and taciturn
ivan drago represented his entire country and jiren to his entire universe.
ivan drago in a moment of the final fight he says that if he manages to win the fight against rocky he will win for himself and not for others.
the fight against apollo is basically to show its power and strength I do not see it as different as he humiliates to vegeta or hit in addition to all the demonstrations of its power against the blueken, spirit bomb and time stop etc etc
they were both abandoned at one point in their lives
for me they are basically the same they are there to fulfill a "function" you could say that jiren started to change their way of thinking during the fight against goku
in short you can say that now drago change a little but after several years ... and really does not really affect my point really.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Except that one is executed WAY better. Even Jiren's design is bland.in short you can say that now drago change a little but after several years ... and really does not really affect my point really.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
while I can agree that both re-use nostalgic elements in the plot, I can say that at least the staff of toei has more imagination in the battles, spectacularity and interactions in addition to greater participation of characters and his develoment that I can not say of the manga
the manga is more boring and less risky still
Creed II does not change rocky IV and as he was his co-star in the whole movie
and nobody hates drago so much either before or after so ...
Last edited by Tai Lung on Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
This sentence is indecipherable. Creed 2 doesn't retroactively change Rocky 4. Our point is even as much of a blank slate as Drago was, he has what you want from that sort of character - presence!
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I don’t see wat so bad about jiren design it’s what AT prefers to do nice and simple
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
It's not simplicity that's the issue, it's the lack of anything interesting or memorable.
I have no idea what this means.We jiren also had so what’s the issue.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I'm not sure if this is unpopular or not but Toppo is way cooler than Jiren. His design is more interesting and his transformation into a G.o.D. is more intriguing than Jiren's backstory. Plus he was all about being a hero of justice.
- Gaffer Tape
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 6054
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:25 pm
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I think he meant to say "Which Jiren also had," as in, Geran also has presence. However, if that is what he's saying, I have to vehemently disagree. I mean, it's not impossible to make inscrutable foes interesting.
Drago's "If he dies, he dies," says so much about him in just one line, and it demonstrates that, as implacable as he is, he will do anything for the win, anything just to win a sporting match.
The Terminator has little personality (although the few moments he has of trying to fit in or communicate add just that tiny bit off pizzazz needed), but his mere presence is terrifying. He's an unstoppable juggernaut who will mow down rooms full of people just to get to you. He can be burned, shot, have his flesh melted off, lose the lower half of his body, and he's still going to keep coming for you.
The Borg have no individual personality and are often willing to just ignore you, even if you're walking around their ship, but get their attention, and suddenly you have an entire collective consciousness coming for you. There's nowhere you can hide, your weapons are useless, and all they have to do is touch you, and you lose everything about you that makes you you, and you become an unwitting ally in all the atrocities they will commit in the future.
Those are all psychologically powerful ideas. They make you fear for the characters involved. And they make you as an audience member afraid because you can identify with that fear and what it would do to you were you in that situation. Geran just comes across as bored. He doesn't care if he's there. He doesn't care if his friends lose. Most of the time you don't have to worry about his strength because he's so bored he'll just sit down and ignore the entire tournament. And there's almost never a moment where it honestly feels like the heroes could lose. There's nothing terrifying about that. There's nothing interesting about that. There's nothing for the audience to pick up on. If a writer is going to make a stoic, inscrutable character into the villain, just having him be really, really strong is not enough to make him interesting. Bored characters are boring!
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 4/1/24!)
Current Episode: A Match Made in Hell - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Super #17 Arc Part 2
MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection Series Discussion Thread! (Updated 4/1/24!)
Current Episode: A Match Made in Hell - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Super #17 Arc Part 2
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
what a difference there is with this?Gaffer Tape wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:48 amI think he meant to say "Which Jiren also had," as in, Geran also has presence. However, if that is what he's saying, I have to vehemently disagree. I mean, it's not impossible to make inscrutable foes interesting.
Drago's "If he dies, he dies," says so much about him in just one line, and it demonstrates that, as implacable as he is, he will do anything for the win, anything just to win a sporting match.
Spoiler:
I can give that "point" to you in part ... but it does not apply so much in jiren because he is not a "villain" ... really his goal was not to win the tournament by eliminating all the possible universes. .. that was not of his interest he was there for his universe to "survive" that is because he was in charge of defeat the strongest ones when they made their notice kale, goku, maji kayo and hit etc leaving the weakest to his team but when he saw that his team was not enough "apt" to continue, he clinked to his rules to "win" jiren also aimed to know "the true origin of power" so he felt the need to demonstrate that his ideology was correct against those who fought for their pride, family and friends etcGaffer Tape wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:48 am Those are all psychologically powerful ideas. They make you fear for the characters involved. And they make you as an audience member afraid because you can identify with that fear and what it would do to you were you in that situation. Geran just comes across as bored. He doesn't care if he's there. He doesn't care if his friends lose. Most of the time you don't have to worry about his strength because he's so bored he'll just sit down and ignore the entire tournament. And there's almost never a moment where it honestly feels like the heroes could lose. There's nothing terrifying about that. There's nothing interesting about that. There's nothing for the audience to pick up on. If a writer is going to make a stoic, inscrutable character into the villain, just having him be really, really strong is not enough to make him interesting. Bored characters are boring!
I do not see it different "I fight to win, for me. For me!" - Ivan Drago
Jiren at least has more dialogue and manages to learn more in his fight with Goku
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
it is not unpopular many agree that the toppo god design is better
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Drago's line is terse and iconic. The dialog you used as an example is not. It's bland. It's not terrible, just bland.
Last edited by ABED on Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- PremiumSalt
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 466
- Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:58 pm
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
I love Nozawa, but I disagree with the decision to have her voice every male relative of Goku (aside from Raditz). I don't think she does a good job of distinguishing the voices at all, and that causes issues especially once you get to episodes where both Goku and Gohan are adults.
Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Moro 8. Tournament of Power 9. 21st Budōkai 10. Broly 11. Battle of Gods 12. Boo 13. U6 Tournament 14. Freeza 15. Red Ribbon Army 16. Artificial Humans/Cell 17.Golden Freeza
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
It's very easy to tell the difference. Her performance as Gohan is much more reserved.PremiumSalt wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:35 pm I love Nozawa, but I disagree with the decision to have her voice every male relative of Goku (aside from Raditz). I don't think she does a good job of distinguishing the voices at all, and that causes issues especially once you get to episodes where both Goku and Gohan are adults.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Nah only after he went GOD he was cooler until he jobbed to vegeta
Re: Unpopular DB opinions
Regardless jiren >nu broly as menacing antagonist
Fans will eating anything toei throws at them regardless whether it’s good or bad.
Fans will eating anything toei throws at them regardless whether it’s good or bad.