Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Yeah, I can't recall every detail or anything, but the manga version of Super seems to lean pretty heavily towards Goku and Vegeta only havin god-level power in their actual god-forms. Which would be a hugely welcome relief compared to the inconsistent mess of the anime version.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Goku and Vegeta are around as strong as their Buu arc selves in the same form. The manga makes that pretty clear and never really strays from it.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I'd say Goku and Vegeta are a bit stronger now than in the Buu arc, but that's just a bit. As other people have said, their main power increases come from the god forms, rather than increasing their base strength.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
They are much stronger than their buu arcs, but only because of training. They are no where near god level. As people have said before, toyotaro doesnt seem to have their base forms on god level like the anime.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
super gogeta would most likely beat buuhan with almost nearly the same effort super vegito used. i never bought into the whole "potara >>>>>>> Fusion dance" argument people made. and it looks like people who work on db dont seem to either, especially with gogetas current showing far surpassing everyones expectation in terms of a multiplier.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Did anyone ever noticed how much the power levels from daizenshuu reguarding the piccolo daimaoh part are incoherent compared to both the manga and dbz's power levels?
Surely, who gave that numbers did that wuthout a further control on the source material to check the coherence.
I'll explain better :
Daizenshuu days
Goku (22 tenkaichi) 180
Piccolo daimaoh, young 260
So, where's the problem?
Simple : old piccolo told Goku he hadn't use 50% of his power against him, so
Old piccolo, 40% >180 for sure, making him +/- 240 just by himself, and just at 40%, making his full power 500 .
As we know, that's way too incoherent with z, giving us for Goku a power level of 416 in the raditz saga.
So, to not destroy all manga power levels, we just have to assume that that piccolo power level is just wrong and not to consider.
To make coherence, I'd place 22 tenkaichi Goku at a power level of 40, old piccolo suppressed at 52, full power at 130, young piccolo at 160 with his full power being 200 , and same for Goku (post ultra divine water).
22 tenkaichi Tenshinhan 38
muten at 32
22T yamcha 25
crillin 26
Jiaozi 22
Tambourine 30
Cymbal 28
Drum 50
Other problem with daizenshuu's power levels are the fact that the lore of God is not considered, God being>>popo who was > Goku post UDV
Utilizing my numbers again
Popo 260
Kami 340
Piccolo Jr 368
Goku 23 tenkaichi 375
Goku a/weighs 315
And, continuing for human z warriors
Tenshinhan 275
Crillin 250
Yamcha 240
Cyborg Tao 200
Jiaozi 150
Regarding the power levels reading by Burma with raditz'es scouter, every reading was done on the suppressed fighters, crillin at 206 was just chilling around, not fighting nor training, same for yamcha, muten and tenshinhan (probably, muten just continued to train in secret at that point, or the 139 power level while suppressed can't be explained)
Surely, who gave that numbers did that wuthout a further control on the source material to check the coherence.
I'll explain better :
Daizenshuu days
Goku (22 tenkaichi) 180
Piccolo daimaoh, young 260
So, where's the problem?
Simple : old piccolo told Goku he hadn't use 50% of his power against him, so
Old piccolo, 40% >180 for sure, making him +/- 240 just by himself, and just at 40%, making his full power 500 .
As we know, that's way too incoherent with z, giving us for Goku a power level of 416 in the raditz saga.
So, to not destroy all manga power levels, we just have to assume that that piccolo power level is just wrong and not to consider.
To make coherence, I'd place 22 tenkaichi Goku at a power level of 40, old piccolo suppressed at 52, full power at 130, young piccolo at 160 with his full power being 200 , and same for Goku (post ultra divine water).
22 tenkaichi Tenshinhan 38
muten at 32
22T yamcha 25
crillin 26
Jiaozi 22
Tambourine 30
Cymbal 28
Drum 50
Other problem with daizenshuu's power levels are the fact that the lore of God is not considered, God being>>popo who was > Goku post UDV
Utilizing my numbers again
Popo 260
Kami 340
Piccolo Jr 368
Goku 23 tenkaichi 375
Goku a/weighs 315
And, continuing for human z warriors
Tenshinhan 275
Crillin 250
Yamcha 240
Cyborg Tao 200
Jiaozi 150
Regarding the power levels reading by Burma with raditz'es scouter, every reading was done on the suppressed fighters, crillin at 206 was just chilling around, not fighting nor training, same for yamcha, muten and tenshinhan (probably, muten just continued to train in secret at that point, or the 139 power level while suppressed can't be explained)
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Imo, this makes sense. I actually had some difficulty with Piccolo's PL myself. I guess that this could work out. Just tell me how you got that 240 PL for Piccolo. I mean, he could just be twice as strong to overwhelm Goku, unless if his overall PL was below 500.p-hyvo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:33 am Did anyone ever noticed how much the power levels from daizenshuu reguarding the piccolo daimaoh part are incoherent compared to both the manga and dbz's power levels?
Surely, who gave that numbers did that wuthout a further control on the source material to check the coherence.
I'll explain better :
Daizenshuu days
Goku (22 tenkaichi) 180
Piccolo daimaoh, young 260
So, where's the problem?
Simple : old piccolo told Goku he hadn't use 50% of his power against him, so
Old piccolo, 40% >180 for sure, making him +/- 240 just by himself, and just at 40%, making his full power 500 .
As we know, that's way too incoherent with z, giving us for Goku a power level of 416 in the raditz saga.
So, to not destroy all manga power levels, we just have to assume that that piccolo power level is just wrong and not to consider.
To make coherence, I'd place 22 tenkaichi Goku at a power level of 40, old piccolo suppressed at 52, full power at 130, young piccolo at 160 with his full power being 200 , and same for Goku (post ultra divine water).
22 tenkaichi Tenshinhan 38
muten at 32
22T yamcha 25
crillin 26
Jiaozi 22
Tambourine 30
Cymbal 28
Drum 50
Other problem with daizenshuu's power levels are the fact that the lore of God is not considered, God being>>popo who was > Goku post UDV
Utilizing my numbers again
Popo 260
Kami 340
Piccolo Jr 368
Goku 23 tenkaichi 375
Goku a/weighs 315
And, continuing for human z warriors
Tenshinhan 275
Crillin 250
Yamcha 240
Cyborg Tao 200
Jiaozi 150
Regarding the power levels reading by Burma with raditz'es scouter, every reading was done on the suppressed fighters, crillin at 206 was just chilling around, not fighting nor training, same for yamcha, muten and tenshinhan (probably, muten just continued to train in secret at that point, or the 139 power level while suppressed can't be explained)
P O W E R
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
You see, if Goku was 180 piccolo bad to be at least him x1,33 to oneshot him, so 180x1,33=240 (180+60)Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:47 amImo, this makes sense. I actually had some difficulty with Piccolo's PL myself. I guess that this could work out. Just tell me how you got that 240 PL for Piccolo. I mean, he could just be twice as strong to overwhelm Goku, unless if his overall PL was below 500.p-hyvo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:33 am Did anyone ever noticed how much the power levels from daizenshuu reguarding the piccolo daimaoh part are incoherent compared to both the manga and dbz's power levels?
Surely, who gave that numbers did that wuthout a further control on the source material to check the coherence.
I'll explain better :
Daizenshuu days
Goku (22 tenkaichi) 180
Piccolo daimaoh, young 260
So, where's the problem?
Simple : old piccolo told Goku he hadn't use 50% of his power against him, so
Old piccolo, 40% >180 for sure, making him +/- 240 just by himself, and just at 40%, making his full power 500 .
As we know, that's way too incoherent with z, giving us for Goku a power level of 416 in the raditz saga.
So, to not destroy all manga power levels, we just have to assume that that piccolo power level is just wrong and not to consider.
To make coherence, I'd place 22 tenkaichi Goku at a power level of 40, old piccolo suppressed at 52, full power at 130, young piccolo at 160 with his full power being 200 , and same for Goku (post ultra divine water).
22 tenkaichi Tenshinhan 38
muten at 32
22T yamcha 25
crillin 26
Jiaozi 22
Tambourine 30
Cymbal 28
Drum 50
Other problem with daizenshuu's power levels are the fact that the lore of God is not considered, God being>>popo who was > Goku post UDV
Utilizing my numbers again
Popo 260
Kami 340
Piccolo Jr 368
Goku 23 tenkaichi 375
Goku a/weighs 315
And, continuing for human z warriors
Tenshinhan 275
Crillin 250
Yamcha 240
Cyborg Tao 200
Jiaozi 150
Regarding the power levels reading by Burma with raditz'es scouter, every reading was done on the suppressed fighters, crillin at 206 was just chilling around, not fighting nor training, same for yamcha, muten and tenshinhan (probably, muten just continued to train in secret at that point, or the 139 power level while suppressed can't be explained)
240 being his 40% , would make full power old piccolo 600 (not 500, got that wrong due to distraction kek), because 240x2,5 = 600 (240+240+120)
And nothing, that would just be incoherent with z but I'd like to make some a power levels out of this, just not considering the power levels stated in the manga to see what comes up . It would be funny imo
Quoting you, "twice as strong" with Goku at 180 would make old piccolo(40%) 360, and his full power 900. By that, I'd put full power young piccolo at 1400 kek because It would make sense to me.
By the way, the gap needed to overwhelm someone in Dragon ball is way inferior than a x2, a x1,33 is all what you need to
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
If you have a weak character like the Saibamen to acquire the Ultra Instinct would still give trouble for a thousand times stronger other character to beat them up?
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I can see that being the case. Is this an a result of the clash between Goku and Freeza?p-hyvo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:04 amYou see, if Goku was 180 piccolo bad to be at least him x1,33 to oneshot him, so 180x1,33=240 (180+60)Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:47 amImo, this makes sense. I actually had some difficulty with Piccolo's PL myself. I guess that this could work out. Just tell me how you got that 240 PL for Piccolo. I mean, he could just be twice as strong to overwhelm Goku, unless if his overall PL was below 500.p-hyvo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:33 am Did anyone ever noticed how much the power levels from daizenshuu reguarding the piccolo daimaoh part are incoherent compared to both the manga and dbz's power levels?
Surely, who gave that numbers did that wuthout a further control on the source material to check the coherence.
I'll explain better :
Daizenshuu days
Goku (22 tenkaichi) 180
Piccolo daimaoh, young 260
So, where's the problem?
Simple : old piccolo told Goku he hadn't use 50% of his power against him, so
Old piccolo, 40% >180 for sure, making him +/- 240 just by himself, and just at 40%, making his full power 500 .
As we know, that's way too incoherent with z, giving us for Goku a power level of 416 in the raditz saga.
So, to not destroy all manga power levels, we just have to assume that that piccolo power level is just wrong and not to consider.
To make coherence, I'd place 22 tenkaichi Goku at a power level of 40, old piccolo suppressed at 52, full power at 130, young piccolo at 160 with his full power being 200 , and same for Goku (post ultra divine water).
22 tenkaichi Tenshinhan 38
muten at 32
22T yamcha 25
crillin 26
Jiaozi 22
Tambourine 30
Cymbal 28
Drum 50
Other problem with daizenshuu's power levels are the fact that the lore of God is not considered, God being>>popo who was > Goku post UDV
Utilizing my numbers again
Popo 260
Kami 340
Piccolo Jr 368
Goku 23 tenkaichi 375
Goku a/weighs 315
And, continuing for human z warriors
Tenshinhan 275
Crillin 250
Yamcha 240
Cyborg Tao 200
Jiaozi 150
Regarding the power levels reading by Burma with raditz'es scouter, every reading was done on the suppressed fighters, crillin at 206 was just chilling around, not fighting nor training, same for yamcha, muten and tenshinhan (probably, muten just continued to train in secret at that point, or the 139 power level while suppressed can't be explained)
240 being his 40% , would make full power old piccolo 600 (not 500, got that wrong due to distraction kek), because 240x2,5 = 600 (240+240+120)
And nothing, that would just be incoherent with z but I'd like to make some a power levels out of this, just not considering the power levels stated in the manga to see what comes up . It would be funny imo
Quoting you, "twice as strong" with Goku at 180 would make old piccolo(40%) 360, and his full power 900. By that, I'd put full power young piccolo at 1400 kek because It would make sense to me.
By the way, the gap needed to overwhelm someone in Dragon ball is way inferior than a x2, a x1,33 is all what you need to
P O W E R
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Not strictly for that.Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:18 amI can see that being the case. Is this an a result of the clash between Goku and Freeza?p-hyvo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:04 amYou see, if Goku was 180 piccolo bad to be at least him x1,33 to oneshot him, so 180x1,33=240 (180+60)Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:47 am
Imo, this makes sense. I actually had some difficulty with Piccolo's PL myself. I guess that this could work out. Just tell me how you got that 240 PL for Piccolo. I mean, he could just be twice as strong to overwhelm Goku, unless if his overall PL was below 500.
240 being his 40% , would make full power old piccolo 600 (not 500, got that wrong due to distraction kek), because 240x2,5 = 600 (240+240+120)
And nothing, that would just be incoherent with z but I'd like to make some a power levels out of this, just not considering the power levels stated in the manga to see what comes up . It would be funny imo
Quoting you, "twice as strong" with Goku at 180 would make old piccolo(40%) 360, and his full power 900. By that, I'd put full power young piccolo at 1400 kek because It would make sense to me.
By the way, the gap needed to overwhelm someone in Dragon ball is way inferior than a x2, a x1,33 is all what you need to
Anyway, imo the gaps works like that
X1,1 A and B are nearly equal
X1,15 A has a SLIGHT advantage on B
X1,2 A has a visible advantage on B
X1,25 A dominates B
X1,33 or more A just oneshots B
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I think that makes sense, but unfortunately battle powers are not that well thought. Sometimes you see proportionally high differences in numbers being not too much in practice and proportionally low differences having great impact on the result of a fight.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
What do you mean?Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:51 amI think that makes sense, but unfortunately battle powers are not that well thought. Sometimes you see proportionally high differences in numbers being not too much in practice and proportionally low differences having great impact on the result of a fight.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Basically, there's never a set-in-stone "always how this works" formula for calculating what numerical power differences will produce in execution.p-hyvo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:22 amWhat do you mean?Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:51 amI think that makes sense, but unfortunately battle powers are not that well thought. Sometimes you see proportionally high differences in numbers being not too much in practice and proportionally low differences having great impact on the result of a fight.
Sometimes, a guy dozens of times stronger can't put down someone, while other times a guy barely a percentage or so above their opponent can easily down them. And this isn't even taking into account things like solid blows, off-guard attacks, etc.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Stronger than Shin as proven in the GoD battle royale.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
This keeps being brought up when people talk about Base Saiyans in the manga, but that’s clearly not related only to Goku’s base form, which is an ant in comparison to the Gods of Destruction. Goku only managed to keep standing because his true strength is equal to a God of Destruction candidate.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
And I disagree. Nowhere was it even implied it accounted for his "inner" strength. Base Goku didn't fall because he's over the Kaioshin level in base. Is as simple as that.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:27 pm This keeps being brought up when people talk about Base Saiyans in the manga, but that’s clearly not related only to Goku’s base form, which is an ant in comparison to the Gods of Destruction. Goku only managed to keep standing because his true strength is equal to a God of Destruction candidate.
There's also the fact that RoF happens in the manga continuity and as such base Goku is way over where he was on the Boo arc since he fought final form Freeza on his base form.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
There's no confirmation that it happened that way at all, actually.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:52 pm There's also the fact that RoF happens in the manga continuity and as such base Goku is way over where he was on the Boo arc since he fought final form Freeza on his base form.
Based on Freeza's showing at the ToP, where he's around SS Caulifla's level (and we know Caulifla is at least as strong as Cabba who was equal to base Vegeta), base Goku vs Freeza was likely just SS Goku vs Freeza in this continuity. It would be a minor change on par with Goku not absorbing SSG into his base in the manga.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
We don't know that, probably not since Freeza is around SSJ Caulifla, who is comparable to SSJ Goku.