Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

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Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:01 pm

The deeper I dive into LGBTIA+ communities the more I learn about our world and the people in it. Recently, I learned that there are those who choose the pronouns of 'it/its' for themselves, feeling it best describes their self-actualization. Learning this neat new piece of life I was reminded of how in the Viz Media translation of the Dragon Ball comic the character of Cell--whom is typically referred to as 'he/him'--was referred to as 'it/its' in the aforementioned translation. This has got me wondering: is there something in the original text that specifies Cell as a non-binary or at least gave Viz the impression that he was?
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by sailorspazz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:22 pm

I'm inclined to chalk this one up to another Vizism, as I don't believe there's any significant difference in the way the cast addresses Cell compared to how they talk to/about any other villain. Admittedly, I haven't deep dived into this for comparison, but I certainly don't remember there being anything in the original script that stood out as a reason why they would switch from using he/him. Even Namekians, who only have one gender, are still addressed that way in the translation.

My guess for what Viz was going for was to emphasize the fact that he wasn't born, but created in a lab from other characters' DNA (he has many dads :wink: ). I don't think their decision was gender based more than just wanting to portray Cell as a an unnatural being.
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by Soppa Saia People » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:45 pm

^ yeah that's the sense that i always got off of it, not to mention, he looks like a bug at the start and most people call bugs "it", so maybe that also influenced them :p
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by Jord » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:54 pm

He's a dude.
He's voiced Norio Wakamoto.

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:34 pm

Jord wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:54 pm He's a dude.
He's voiced Norio Wakamoto.
Goku's a man played by Masako Nozawa.

Kuririn's a man played by Mayumi Tanaka.

Anyway, general reminder that we actually have a "Personal Pronoun Guide" on the site, have for quite some time, and Cell is right up in there! Enjoy!
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by ABED » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:02 pm

According to the guide, Cell is referred to as a him/he, not it. He tells Piccolo that he's his brother. And given that it's DB, it was always a safe bet Cell is a man.
Last edited by ABED on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by Apollo Fungus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:11 pm

I had no idea Kanzenshuu had a personal pronouns guide! I'm gonna give this a proper read later because I'm actually really fascinated by how many ways there are to refer to yourself in Japanese and what that suggests about your particular situation, either personally or socially.

Just skimming through the bits relating to the Androids and Cell, it's a really cool touch that No. 17 uses "Watashi" (a polite, gender-neutral term) when talking to Dr Gero but otherwise uses "Ore" (a masculine pronoun). At least to me, it suggests he's using that to convince Gero of his loyalty by using the same pronouns that the other active androids use, and then swaps back to his default pronoun when he longer has to do that. Granted, I could be talking out of my ass, but I still like the idea.

As for Cell, he normally uses "Watashi", but swaps to "Ore" when he first refers to himself and when he's about to self-destruct. I don't really know how to interpret the change in pronouns since there doesn't seem to be anything in those respective situations where it makes sense for him to do that, but it's likely I'm just missing something. (Also, he uses "Ore" when using No. 17's voice to trick 18 into being absorbed - that's a pretty cool addition to that trap.)

I haven't read Viz's translation in a long time, but I suspect that when they made the decision, their intent was likely to convey that Cell was so far removed from humanity (in the metaphorical sense) that using "it" was the most appropriate pronoun for the character - like how you'd describe a violent, mindless beast in ancient tales. (I don't intend to suggest that people who use "it" as a personal pronoun are inhuman beasts or anything of the sort, and I apologize if I've caused any offence. It's more that the translation team either weren't aware of that or didn't consider it when they made the decision at the time, and it resulted in a happy accident where Cell can be interpreted as non-binary to readers of the Viz translation.)

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:30 pm

I think Viz was trying to play up him being a sci-fi alien abomination.
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:50 pm

He reproduces asexually and doesn't have a dick.

Of course that didn't stop them from calling Piccolo "he", so maybe they just applied that label to him because he's a bio-android. He refers to himself as Piccolo's "brother" in both the Japanese and Viz versions, so it's clear that, despite his sex differing from a human's, he views himself as male.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:01 pm

O' Cell, my child borne of many fathers, how I love you so.
ABED wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:02 pm According to the guide, Cell is referred to as a him/he, not it. He tells Piccolo that he's his brother. And given that it's DB, it was always a safe bet Cell is a man.
If my memory is correct Cell actually says 'kyoudai' which is gender neutral, i.e. 'sibling'. A closeted trans person would probably refer to themselves similarly to avoid gendering themselves their assigned at birth gender. :P

Cell says trans rights!
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by ABED » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:14 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:50 pm He reproduces asexually and doesn't have a dick.

Of course that didn't stop them from calling Piccolo "he", so maybe they just applied that label to him because he's a bio-android. He refers to himself as Piccolo's "brother" in both the Japanese and Viz versions, so it's clear that, despite his sex differing from a human's, he views himself as male.
Freeza doesn't have genitals, either, but is male. Hell, he doesn't even have an anus. I wouldn't be looking at anatomy for answers.
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:20 pm

ABED wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:14 pm
RandomGuy96 wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:50 pm He reproduces asexually and doesn't have a dick.

Of course that didn't stop them from calling Piccolo "he", so maybe they just applied that label to him because he's a bio-android. He refers to himself as Piccolo's "brother" in both the Japanese and Viz versions, so it's clear that, despite his sex differing from a human's, he views himself as male.
Freeza doesn't have genitals, either, but is male.
He's vaguely lizard-like so his genitalia is probably held inverted within the body. If his species doesn't reproduce asexually as well, of course.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by KBABZ » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:06 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:20 pm He's vaguely lizard-like so his genitalia is probably held inverted within the body. If his species doesn't reproduce asexually as well, of course.
Cell has Frieza's cells too.

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:12 pm

Neither Freeza, Cell, nor Piccolo seem to be biologically male or female, at least in terms of reproductive functioning. As far as gender is concerned, they all seem to identify as "male", but of course this is because of the author's intent.

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by Jord » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:57 am

VegettoEX wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:34 pm
Jord wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:54 pm He's a dude.
He's voiced Norio Wakamoto.
Goku's a man played by Masako Nozawa.

Kuririn's a man played by Mayumi Tanaka.
Yes, I know but while both actresses you mentioned are known for their portrayal of boyish characters, Norio Wakamoto is known for voicing large, male characters. His booming bass voice isn't much applied to female characters.

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:03 am

jjgp1112 wrote: โ†‘Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:30 pm I think Viz was trying to play up him being a sci-fi alien abomination.
That was my thoughts too. I doubt there was any other reason beyond that.

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by Apslup » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:12 pm

Aside from Freeza's cells, Cell is made up of the cells of all males. This and his highly masculine appreance makes me think that Cell identifies as a "he"

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by Sin » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:29 pm

Apslup wrote: โ†‘Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:12 pm Aside from Freeza's cells, Cell is made up of the cells of all males. This and his highly masculine appreance makes me think that Cell identifies as a "he"
Freeza is a male, he is referred to as King Cold's son.

In context I think the choice to use 'it/its' was probably more to convey Cell as something alien/creaturely rather than an attempt to represent Cell's possible gender identity. Personally, I think it would be awesome if Cell was an 'it' and was non-binary, a being who might see themselves as 'perfect' would very likely feel beyond the constraints of gender.

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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:44 pm

Sin wrote: โ†‘Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:29 pm Personally, I think it would be awesome if Cell was an 'it' and was non-binary, a being who might see themselves as 'perfect' would very likely feel beyond the constraints of gender.
god, that would be so sick lmao. great idea.
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Re: Cell's Pronouns: He/Him v. It/Its

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:09 pm

Is it/its really a pronoun people use? I know non-binary/gender non-conforming people sometimes use they/them but I thought โ€œ itโ€was just used to dehumanize transgender and gender non-conforming people.

Anyways Cell is clearly treated as male.

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