"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TKA]

Even supposing that a "lightning attack" would do anything when Ki hasn't (and it surely wouldn't, since ki has been destroying cosmic bodies since the first tournament we saw)—even supposing it could blind Moro—we're well past the point where being blind would hurt any character. Ki sensing and not depending on eyesight has been standardized in this series.

The Taiyoken has only worked as a surprise attack, and then the person who used it run away instead of sticking around and trying to fight. Because sticking around would be dumb.

People are so quick to ignore the rules of the series if it means their old favorites can "get their time in the limelight." I'd rather characters contribute to the plot in the ways only they can, rather than shoving them into random fights for fanservice purposes.

[Miracles]

All those are Ki based; too straight forward attacks that will be no good against Moro.

one is a lighting attack .. that could blind him

the hakai would erase it before ... unless it regenerates his body something it has not shown

Moro's sensing abilities are on another scale. He can also delve into the mind. It still takes Ki which Moro would absorb anyway.

Even supposing that a "lightning attack" would do anything when Ki hasn't (and it surely wouldn't, since ki has been destroying cosmic bodies since the first tournament we saw)—even supposing it could blind Moro—we're well past the point where being blind would hurt any character. Ki sensing and not depending on eyesight has been standardized in this series.

The Taiyoken has only worked as a surprise attack, and then the person who used it run away instead of sticking around and trying to fight. Because sticking around would be dumb.

People are so quick to ignore the rules of the series if it means their old favorites can "get their time in the limelight." I'd rather characters contribute to the plot in the ways only they can, rather than shoving them into random fights for fanservice purposes.

This! You hit the nail on the head.

[Tai Lung]

Moro's sensing abilities are on another scale. He can also delve into the mind. It still takes Ki which Moro would absorb anyway.

you are speculating ...
He has been shown to absorb energy from the planet and people but in combat only absorb offensive attacks nor can avoid teleportation or other non-offensive techniques
it would be as much as saying that it can also absorb the energy of a hakaishin which seems to be false

he doesn't do it all the time he couldn't into the merus's mind

[Miracles]

Moro's sensing abilities are on another scale. He can also delve into the mind. It still takes Ki which Moro would absorb anyway.

you are speculating ...
He has been shown to absorb energy from the planet and people but in combat only absorb offensive attacks nor can avoid teleportation or other non-offensive techniques
it would be as much as saying that it can also absorb the energy of a hakaishin which seems to be false

he doesn't do it all the time he couldn't into the merus's mind

I'm not speculating when I tell you that tech won't make a difference when Moro's ability to sense is on another level. He doesn't need his eyes to scan Ki. Not to mention nothing you say changes the fact that Moro can read the mind, if necessary. He can drain his opponents to the point they won't even have enough Ki to use Taiyoken. Just like Goku didn't have enough energy to IT. The point is you want to see useless tech's that will not change the outcome of the battle just to please your eyes.

[Tai Lung]

Moro's sensing abilities are on another scale. He can also delve into the mind. It still takes Ki which Moro would absorb anyway.

you are speculating ...
He has been shown to absorb energy from the planet and people but in combat only absorb offensive attacks nor can avoid teleportation or other non-offensive techniques
it would be as much as saying that it can also absorb the energy of a hakaishin which seems to be false

he doesn't do it all the time he couldn't into the merus's mind

I'm not speculating when I tell you that tech won't make a difference when Moro's ability to sense is on another level. He doesn't need his eyes to scan Ki. Not to mention nothing you say changes the fact that Moro can read the mind, if necessary. He can drain his opponents to the point they won't even have enough Ki to use Taiyoken. Just like Goku didn't have enough energy to IT. The point is you want to see useless tech's that will not change the outcome of the battle just to please your eyes.

you're giving me excuses basically ...
what would happen if goku erases moro's head like zamasu? even if it drains his energy that we already saw that it takes a while to do it, he as it recovers it?
if he is blinded .... even if he can enter the minds he cannot do it all the time,

he loses orientation, besides he would not know where to hide and still feel pain
and the only thing that goku and vegeta have done so far is to try to hit him or attack him with energy ...

[Dragon Wukong]

All those are Ki based; too straight forward attacks that will be no good against Moro.

one is a lighting attack .. that could blind him

the hakai would erase it before ... unless it regenerates his body something it has not shown

Hakai expends energy. Enough to prevent Goku from going Blue again.

[Tai Lung]

All those are Ki based; too straight forward attacks that will be no good against Moro.

one is a lighting attack .. that could blind him

the hakai would erase it before ... unless it regenerates his body something it has not shown

Hakai expends energy. Enough to prevent Goku from going Blue again.

I will give you the reason but at least I would like an explanation of this so as not to remain as a simple forgetfulness ...

[CJStriker_CBR]

when goku remembers the warriors powerful in the tournament kefla and ribrianne are displayed in addition to the pride troopers and only in the anime he fight them

He also recalls the Gods of Destruction from the tournament, who he didn't see fight in the anime. He still witnessed Kefla and Ribrianne in the manga.

goku never saw ribrianne ... besides she was basically a random character in the manga

He also saw the gods in the anime, tournament and pre-tournament
[/quote]

I Never Really got Attached to the Manga Ribrianne as much as I did with the Anime Ribrianne cause both her, the Madiens and Even Android 18 got seriously underdeveloped and did not have the levels of interactions, ideal clashing and development they go in the Anime sadly.

More Important, You mentioned Tai Lungabout Goku Remembering certain ToP Fighters, those being Ribrianne, Kefla, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo and Various GoD's was or at this point is as long as it is Canon to the Anime from the Super: Broly Movie. It was a Shout out by Goku when Goku said how impressed he was with fighters of other universes and the impact in power and skill they had on him. They Got him all fired up!

Why this is Most Significant IMO, but I don't want to get ahead of myself and I don't want to read to much into it but it should not be fully ignored either, but as 2019 has gone on it is harder to ignore, Even thought it is just a one second shout out in the movie it Might be Toei's way of saying these are the characters we what you to remember from the ToP and the ones that we want you do remember that had the most impact in the story They are tell, mostly going forward.

For Any Ribrianne fan this is important cause what has happen since then. Since this fast cameo in Super: Broly, Ribrianne has been Making more Appearances in Major Frances Products like Legends and Xenoverse 2 with recently a Significant Update to her character in Dokkan Battle being now a rare Transformation character and even Funimation Hiring a Legend like Veronica Taylor to Voice her in the English Dub. In the Games espically she is given Significant Power in those games making her one of the Best playable characters. Ontop of that I keep hearing more and more about Ribrianne having a Good Sized Positive Popularity in the Japanese Fanbase, especially after the Xenoverse 2 announcement.

While all of power-scaling and significance of Ribriann'e part in the original ToP Anime has been debatable in both power and importance, it seems Toei is move forward with her in a possibly more significant role in the Franchise, But this more for the Anime Canon then the Manga Canon and I am fine by that.

Again it is too early to tell and it can very likely lead to nothing, but in the Post DB Super TV World, especially 2019, Ribrianne has been having an Impressive Positive Usage Streak I can't help but admire, I hope it leads to more good things for her character, but only time will tell.

[Kataphrut]

I think I made this exact joke once: of course the Broly movie is canon to the anime, Goku gets excited thinking about the Tournament of Power. If he were thinking of the manga version, he'd have nodded off in the middle of his sentence and started mumbling something about power scaling.

[emperior]

It’s hilarious how we are still discussing what’s more canonical between the manga and anime.

The Super manga fans are a very niche group who feel validated by the fact Toriyama checks its storyboards, forgetting he also checks Heroes manga ones and also checked Yamcha’s side-story manga - does it make those products suddenly canonical?

Toriyama personally correcting a few stuff in the manga doesn’t suddenly make it the main product.
First of all, the anime staff has barely revealed the extent of Toriyama’s involvement in the anime, but we know thanks to Toriyama himself that he considers the anime-only Namekian Book of Legends as something that exists in his story. We also know that he had Toei change Jiren’s characterization, wrote them how Caulifla achieved Super Saiyan, gave them a document with how each U7 fighter got eliminated in the Tournament of Power. And possibly the anime had even more Toriyama ideas that weren’t included in the manga.

It’s even more obvious that the anime is the main thing because Toriyama decided to take some manga only stuff and include it in his story in the Broly movie - such as the dialogue between Goku and Beerus about Goku not wanting to become a God of Destruction, which was already in the manga (why would Toriyama repeat it if he considered the manga as the main product?) and Vegeta going Super Saiyan God.
Also as has been already pointed out, Goku in the movie talks about the Tournament of Power referring to many incredible warriors. And, in fact, only people he actually fought are shown. But in the manga, Goku only fought against Jiren and some Pride Troopers in the tournament! And he considered those troopers so weak that he was constantly looking for Jiren while fighting them! In the manga it was always clear that for Goku there was no other opponent worth is time other than Jiren, so the movie’s dialogue doesn’t really work with the manga’s events.

Also people are fast to point out how Toriyama disregarded anime-only forms, even though Nagamine himself said he decided to not include the limit-breaking forms just because he felt it was too soon for Goku and Vegeta to break their limits again. In case it wasn’t obvious, I’m referring to Blue Kaioken (which Goku called his limit breaking power against Toppo) and Blue Evolution which, by the way, Manga Vegeta has and can use at will as he showed against Moro, so does it mean Toriyama also ignored the supposedly canonical manga?

Manga fans can have their fun disregarding the anime and discussing their niche product in this thread alone, but we all know that if you had to talk about Super with 99% of its fans, you would have to discuss the anime events if you don’t want to sound crazy.

[Issei189]

When did Nagamine say that ? Can you post an interview because i don't recall him ever referencing or mentioning KK and SSBE's non-inclusion in the movie.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Also people are fast to point out how Toriyama disregarded anime-only forms, even though Nagamine himself said he decided to not include the limit-breaking forms just because he felt it was too soon for Goku and Vegeta to break their limits again. In case it wasn’t obvious, I’m referring to Blue Kaioken (which Goku called his limit breaking power against Toppo) and Blue Evolution which, by the way, Manga Vegeta has and can use at will as he showed against Moro, so does it mean Toriyama also ignored the supposedly canonical manga?

When Nagamine said that?

It’s hilarious how we are still discussing what’s more canonical between the manga and anime.

The Super manga fans are a very niche group who feel validated by the fact Toriyama checks its storyboards, forgetting he also checks Heroes manga ones and also checked Yamcha’s side-story manga - does it make those products suddenly canonical?

Except that when he oversees DBS, he is involved in a canonical product and makes changes according to canonical history (and based on the draft he makes). Quote Heroes or Yamcha's manga makes no sense.

Not to mention the fact that in an interview he says that when he oversees the anime, there is always something he doesn't like, which usually doesn't happen with Toyotaro (in which he seems to have more confidence), besides have already publicly criticized the anime

It’s even more obvious that the anime is the main thing because Toriyama decided to take some manga only stuff and include it in his story in the Broly movie - such as the dialogue between Goku and Beerus about Goku not wanting to become a God of Destruction, which was already in the manga (why would Toriyama repeat it if he considered the manga as the main product?) and Vegeta going Super Saiyan God.
Also as has been already pointed out, Goku in the movie talks about the Tournament of Power referring to many incredible warriors. And, in fact, only people he actually fought are shown. But in the manga, Goku only fought against Jiren and some Pride Troopers in the tournament! And he considered those troopers so weak that he was constantly looking for Jiren while fighting them! In the manga it was always clear that for Goku there was no other opponent worth is time other than Jiren, so the movie’s dialogue doesn’t really work with the manga’s events.

In the anime Goku also told Beerus that he doesn't want to become a GoD:

https://youtu.be/z4nLp9kNuIQ

In the RoF movie (the movies have much more Toriyama involvement and seem to be more close ti his vision), Beerus asks Goku the same thing. Following this logic, both anime and movie should be disregarded because it would make no sense for this line to exist again in the DBS movie, right?

In Broly movie is shown several GoDs when Goku is speaking, and he just saw these gods fight in the manga.

Manga fans can have their fun disregarding the anime and discussing their niche product in this thread alone, but we all know that if you had to talk about Super with 99% of its fans, you would have to discuss the anime events if you don’t want to sound crazy.

And? I don't see how this relates to the actual discussion, it just seems like a way to downplay the manga (sales are good and most people who watch the anime also know the manga and that's why there was so much confusion about the differences that both media had

[TheSaiyanGod]

Also people are fast to point out how Toriyama disregarded anime-only forms, even though Nagamine himself said he decided to not include the limit-breaking forms just because he felt it was too soon for Goku and Vegeta to break their limits again. In case it wasn’t obvious, I’m referring to Blue Kaioken (which Goku called his limit breaking power against Toppo) and Blue Evolution which, by the way, Manga Vegeta has and can use at will as he showed against Moro, so does it mean Toriyama also ignored the supposedly canonical manga?

When Nagamine said that?

It’s hilarious how we are still discussing what’s more canonical between the manga and anime.

The Super manga fans are a very niche group who feel validated by the fact Toriyama checks its storyboards, forgetting he also checks Heroes manga ones and also checked Yamcha’s side-story manga - does it make those products suddenly canonical?

Except that when he oversees DBS, he is involved in a canonical product and makes changes according to canonical history (and based on the draft he makes). Quote Heroes or Yamcha's manga makes no sense.

Not to mention the fact that in an interview he says that when he oversees the anime, there is always something he doesn't like, which usually doesn't happen with Toyotaro (in which he seems to have more confidence), besides have already publicly criticized the anime

It’s even more obvious that the anime is the main thing because Toriyama decided to take some manga only stuff and include it in his story in the Broly movie - such as the dialogue between Goku and Beerus about Goku not wanting to become a God of Destruction, which was already in the manga (why would Toriyama repeat it if he considered the manga as the main product?) and Vegeta going Super Saiyan God.
Also as has been already pointed out, Goku in the movie talks about the Tournament of Power referring to many incredible warriors. And, in fact, only people he actually fought are shown. But in the manga, Goku only fought against Jiren and some Pride Troopers in the tournament! And he considered those troopers so weak that he was constantly looking for Jiren while fighting them! In the manga it was always clear that for Goku there was no other opponent worth is time other than Jiren, so the movie’s dialogue doesn’t really work with the manga’s events.

In the anime Goku also told Beerus that he doesn't want to become a GoD:

https://youtu.be/z4nLp9kNuIQ

In the RoF movie (the movies have much more Toriyama involvement and seem to be more close ti his vision), Beerus asks Goku the same thing. Following this logic, both anime and movie should be disregarded because it would make no sense for this line to exist again in the DBS movie, right?

In Broly movie is shown several GoDs when Goku is speaking, and he just saw these gods fight in the manga.

Manga fans can have their fun disregarding the anime and discussing their niche product in this thread alone, but we all know that if you had to talk about Super with 99% of its fans, you would have to discuss the anime events if you don’t want to sound crazy.

And? I don't see how this relates to the actual discussion, it just seems like a way to downplay the manga (sales are good and most people who watch the anime also know the manga and that's why there was so much confusion about the differences that both media had

[Miracles]

you are speculating ...
He has been shown to absorb energy from the planet and people but in combat only absorb offensive attacks nor can avoid teleportation or other non-offensive techniques
it would be as much as saying that it can also absorb the energy of a hakaishin which seems to be false

he doesn't do it all the time he couldn't into the merus's mind

I'm not speculating when I tell you that tech won't make a difference when Moro's ability to sense is on another level. He doesn't need his eyes to scan Ki. Not to mention nothing you say changes the fact that Moro can read the mind, if necessary. He can drain his opponents to the point they won't even have enough Ki to use Taiyoken. Just like Goku didn't have enough energy to IT. The point is you want to see useless tech's that will not change the outcome of the battle just to please your eyes.

you're giving me excuses basically ...
what would happen if goku erases moro's head like zamasu? even if it drains his energy that we already saw that it takes a while to do it, he as it recovers it?
if he is blinded .... even if he can enter the minds he cannot do it all the time,

he loses orientation, besides he would not know where to hide and still feel pain
and the only thing that goku and vegeta have done so far is to try to hit him or attack him with energy ...

You keep giving me hypothetical's. The fact is, the bottom line; The techniques you want Goku to use take energy. The story is telling the audience Goku/Vegeta can't fight Moro that way. This is exactly why they seek alternatives.

[emperior]

When did Nagamine say that ? Can you post an interview because i don't recall him ever referencing or mentioning KK and SSBE's non-inclusion in the movie.

This is the interview I had in mind: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/ but reading it again I probably remembered it wrongly. I don’t know whether or not Nagamine was referring to the quality of the battles when talking about breaking limits. Either way I apologise, I clearly remembered a different thing so unless that was translated by some snippets from some other obscure interview that hasn’t uploaded on the site yet, what I said was the false as there’s no mention of the limit-breaking forms.

———

First of all, please can you guys stop using the “Toriyama criticised the anime” argument? It makes no sense. In fact, the fact he decided to publicly criticise it means he cares about its quality - which is exactly what Toriyama said when he admitted that ever since Evolution Dragon Ball he has grown too fond of its creation which is why he can’t leave it alone.

Second, the fact Toriyama always found something that bugged him with the anime boards is something that goes back as far as the RoF arc/beginning of U6 arc, which is when the show was so bad he complained about it. Nothing suggests the same thing continued to happen all throughout Super’s run.
It also yet again confirms that he checked the anime, unlike what some people here claim.

As for the “Beerus asks Goku if he wants to become God of Destruction”, if you see the video you will see how Goku doesn’t answer Beerus. In fact Beerus casually mentions if Goku is training with the purpose of becoming a God of Destruction and then completely changes discussion and tells Goku he’s gotten too rusty.
Meanwhile in the manga, it’s basically the same thing and Goku even tells Beerus that he’s already told him many times about how he’s not interested in the role:

Spoiler:

Also I don’t remember the Resurrection F movie having that same dialogue. The anime retelling for sure didn’t have it, by the way.

[HeroR]

When did Nagamine say that ? Can you post an interview because i don't recall him ever referencing or mentioning KK and SSBE's non-inclusion in the movie.

This is the interview I had in mind: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/ but reading it again I probably remembered it wrongly. I don’t know whether or not Nagamine was referring to the quality of the battles when talking about breaking limits. Either way I apologise, I clearly remembered a different thing so unless that was translated by some snippets from some other obscure interview that hasn’t uploaded on the site yet, what I said was the false as there’s no mention of the limit-breaking forms.

———

First of all, please can you guys stop using the “Toriyama criticised the anime” argument? It makes no sense. In fact, the fact he decided to publicly criticise it means he cares about its quality - which is exactly what Toriyama said when he admitted that ever since Evolution Dragon Ball he has grown too fond of its creation which is why he can’t leave it alone.

Second, the fact Toriyama always found something that bugged him with the anime boards is something that goes back as far as the RoF arc/beginning of U6 arc, which is when the show was so bad he complained about it. Nothing suggests the same thing continued to happen all throughout Super’s run.
It also yet again confirms that he checked the anime, unlike what some people here claim.

As for the “Beerus asks Goku if he wants to become God of Destruction”, if you see the video you will see how Goku doesn’t answer Beerus. In fact Beerus casually mentions if Goku is training with the purpose of becoming a God of Destruction and then completely changes discussion and tells Goku he’s gotten too rusty.
Meanwhile in the manga, it’s basically the same thing and Goku even tells Beerus that he’s already told him many times about how he’s not interested in the role:

Spoiler:

Also I don’t remember the Resurrection F movie having that same dialogue. The anime retelling for sure didn’t have it, by the way.

Actually, given how long it takes a book to be published, which is where the complaint came from, Toriyama had to be referring to either Battle of Gods or the beginning of Resurrection 'F' since Champa Saga wasn't a thing until early 2016, while the book came out in the fall of 2015. Heck, the manga wasn't on the Champa until late 2015.

[Tai Lung]

I'm not speculating when I tell you that tech won't make a difference when Moro's ability to sense is on another level. He doesn't need his eyes to scan Ki. Not to mention nothing you say changes the fact that Moro can read the mind, if necessary. He can drain his opponents to the point they won't even have enough Ki to use Taiyoken. Just like Goku didn't have enough energy to IT. The point is you want to see useless tech's that will not change the outcome of the battle just to please your eyes.

you're giving me excuses basically ...
what would happen if goku erases moro's head like zamasu? even if it drains his energy that we already saw that it takes a while to do it, he as it recovers it?
if he is blinded .... even if he can enter the minds he cannot do it all the time,

he loses orientation, besides he would not know where to hide and still feel pain
and the only thing that goku and vegeta have done so far is to try to hit him or attack him with energy ...

You keep giving me hypothetical's. The fact is, the bottom line; The techniques you want Goku to use take energy. The story is telling the audience Goku/Vegeta can't fight Moro that way. This is exactly why they seek alternatives.

techniques and skills is something they tried with zamasu ... with moro just trying to hit him.
The fact is, the bottom line is ...
-Moro does not absorb energy instantly.
-moro can be defeated in the traditional way ... it is not immortal, it does not regenerate and feels pain
-It only has 3 abilities and only uses 2 of them which have limits
if they really can't get over that ... then it's a involution to their as warriors.
that vegeta goes to learn thing of the Yadrats and that does not require ki will seem funny to me seriously.

yes you have reason in some points ... but my point is that moro have skills do not compensate for their deficiencies ..
the protagonists should have learned from their mistakes and past battles with the opponents they faced before

[Miracles]

you're giving me excuses basically ...
what would happen if goku erases moro's head like zamasu? even if it drains his energy that we already saw that it takes a while to do it, he as it recovers it?
if he is blinded .... even if he can enter the minds he cannot do it all the time,

he loses orientation, besides he would not know where to hide and still feel pain
and the only thing that goku and vegeta have done so far is to try to hit him or attack him with energy ...

You keep giving me hypothetical's. The fact is, the bottom line; The techniques you want Goku to use take energy. The story is telling the audience Goku/Vegeta can't fight Moro that way. This is exactly why they seek alternatives.

techniques and skills is something they tried with zamasu ... with moro just trying to hit him.
The fact is, the bottom line is ...
-Moro does not absorb energy instantly.
-moro can be defeated in the traditional way ... it is not immortal, it does not regenerate and feels pain
-It only has 3 abilities and only uses 2 of them which have limits
if they really can't get over that ... then it's a involution to their as warriors.
that vegeta goes to learn thing of the Yadrats and that does not require ki will seem funny to me seriously.

yes you have reason in some points ... but my point is that moro have skills do not compensate for their deficiencies ..
the protagonists should have learned from their mistakes and past battles with the opponents they faced before

Your using headcanon again. Moro can NOT be defeated the traditional way as stated like the past villains. It's not the same as their past battles.

[Tai Lung]

besides have already publicly criticized the anime

also criticized the manga claiming that the battles do not have enough impact

In Broly movie is shown several GoDs when Goku is speaking, and he just saw these gods fight in the manga.

in the anime he also saw the gods in the tournament and pre - tournament
nothing changes that he sees them fight or not, they are gods he know they are strong

You keep giving me hypothetical's. The fact is, the bottom line; The techniques you want Goku to use take energy. The story is telling the audience Goku/Vegeta can't fight Moro that way. This is exactly why they seek alternatives.

techniques and skills is something they tried with zamasu ... with moro just trying to hit him.
The fact is, the bottom line is ...
-Moro does not absorb energy instantly.
-moro can be defeated in the traditional way ... it is not immortal, it does not regenerate and feels pain
-It only has 3 abilities and only uses 2 of them which have limits
if they really can't get over that ... then it's a involution to their as warriors.
that vegeta goes to learn thing of the Yadrats and that does not require ki will seem funny to me seriously.

yes you have reason in some points ... but my point is that moro have skills do not compensate for their deficiencies ..
the protagonists should have learned from their mistakes and past battles with the opponents they faced before

Your using headcanon again. Moro can NOT be defeated the traditional way as stated like the past villains. It's not the same as their past battles.

No, that is what you are doing when you speculate because they cannot use skills that they have not tried or mentioned.

It is not immortal, he feel pain and can not be regenerated his body ...

[Miracles]

No, that is what you are doing when you speculate because they cannot use skills that they have not tried or mentioned.

It is not immortal, he feel pain and can not be regenerated his body ...

No the plot has Goku and Vegeta seek other alternatives. Despite other techniques they haven't used cause they won't work.