"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

FYI, all that info is translated and collected with all the necessary context right on our "Battle of Gods" page in the movie guide (see the extensive "ORIGINAL DRAFT/DESIGN CONCEPTS" section there), and most of it is also available in its full context throughout our "Translations" section.

And reminder that Jake and I went through aaaaaallllll of those "canon" words in a podcast episode last year. (Since then, I've seen 正統続編 one more time.)

Nice. Thanks for that info!

[Tai Lung]

It's not false Ribrienne was a key player in the tournament of power and was used in early promo stuff to showcase that

in the manga, Android 18 beat her easily ... and the others U2 warriors were eliminated by another warrior from universe 4

goku never recognized her power in the manga, he didn't even know her, so goku's declaration and memory only make sense in the anime version

as far as I remember GT was also considered "official continuation"

Yes, while GT is typically called a 続編, to my knowledge it's never been referred to as a 正統続編 the way Super is here.
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1057917520429015045

It is referred to as a "continuation" because it literally continues where Z left off, but doesn't have the same "canon" connotation.

Toriyama refers to it as a "grand side-story".

Any product that TOEI and shueisha produces would be taken as official material.
the differences between movies and GT is that the last one was continuation

and if it weren't for the author’s comment and Super, that still really debatable

too the fundamental difference between the original manga and the current manga is that it never depended on toei to tell the stories and events
example: gohan and trunks movie = / = gohan and trunks manga

[TKA]

""The Dragon Ball Super movie this time around will be the next story that takes place after the anime that's currently on TV. The content will shed a little light on previously unexplored topics having to do with Frieza and the Saiyans, and I think it will be a very enjoyable story that serves up a long-awaited formidable opponent!" Toriyama himself said the movie takes place after the anime, and he said absolutely nothing about the manga. I know you really like the manga and that's fine, but Toriyama himself said right there that the movie follows the anime, so yea anime is canon.

Why on Earth are you quoting me without refuting this?

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1057911567927271424?

(You can't refute it. It's official. There is no arguing against it. I don't care about your conjecture or your interpretations. This is it. End of story. Accept it and move on with your day. I'm not gonna hold your hand and rock you to sleep telling you that it's okay that the anime is "canon". I don't understand why you people care about this so much, I don't know why you talk about the manga's lack of canonicity and I don't understand why you refuse to accept that the work Toriyama is directly involved in somehow has a higher standing than the one he is barely involved in.

Okay, I'll hold your hand a little. If it makes you feel any better, consider the manga as a sequel to the Dragonball manga. Consider the anime as a sequel to the original Z anime.)

[Hellspawn28]

If Moro goes to Earth, I do want him to destroy it to make the story feel more intense. I do love the story in the manga so far and I hope they don't ruin it with something lame like Beerus erasing Moro.

[Miracles]

If Moro goes to Earth, I do want him to destroy it to make the story feel more intense. I do love the story in the manga so far and I hope they don't ruin it with something lame like Beerus erasing Moro.

Hopefully, Beerus doesn't get involved if the battle heads to earth. I know he said he didn't care about Namek cause it has no food. However, he cares about earth because it does. If memory serves me right, Beerus has sealing power too. Didn't Toriyama say Beerus sealed elder Kaioshin away?

[batistabus]

Didn't Toriyama say Beerus sealed elder Kaioshin away?

The Kaiōshin (who create planets) and the Gods of Destruction (who destroy them) have never gotten along that well, but once every 1,000 years they go to each other’s realms and hold a coordination meeting. At this time, they got into an argument over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of Destruction sealed Elder Kaiōshin away inside a sword. Naturally, it wouldn’t have been proper for him to destroy the Kaiōshin Realm itself. By the way, that God of Destruction was Beerus.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... mysteries/

[Miracles]

Didn't Toriyama say Beerus sealed elder Kaioshin away?

The Kaiōshin (who create planets) and the Gods of Destruction (who destroy them) have never gotten along that well, but once every 1,000 years they go to each other’s realms and hold a coordination meeting. At this time, they got into an argument over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of Destruction sealed Elder Kaiōshin away inside a sword. Naturally, it wouldn’t have been proper for him to destroy the Kaiōshin Realm itself. By the way, that God of Destruction was Beerus.

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... mysteries/

lol, thanks batistabus!

Only the canon; Authoritative power of the creator, can give insight on the story of Dragonball, like this.

[TheOne]

At this point, I feel like Dragon Ball just hates Namek, it keeps genociding it's people and blowing it up.

Why do Moro's crew care about gathering resources? They're gonna be eaten and leading up to that what are they gonna need that shit for?

Every chapter always feels incomplete, as if the end of a chapter was cut to be the opening of the next.

If your planet has something that grants you ANYTHING your hearts desire, you are going to draw a lot of attention. Mostly evil people.

The fact that you don’t seem to understand this blows my mind.

[Kanassa]

At this point, I feel like Dragon Ball just hates Namek, it keeps genociding it's people and blowing it up.

Why do Moro's crew care about gathering resources? They're gonna be eaten and leading up to that what are they gonna need that shit for?

Every chapter always feels incomplete, as if the end of a chapter was cut to be the opening of the next.

If your planet has something that grants you ANYTHING your hearts desire, you are going to draw a lot of attention. Mostly evil people.

The fact that you don’t seem to understand this blows my mind.

And the fact you don't understand my joke about the same planet getting dicked over repeatedly across the franchise is... Eh.

[Hellspawn28]

If Moro goes to Earth, I bet Gohan is going to lose to him if a fight happens on Earth.

[Lord Beerus]

If Moro goes to Earth, I bet Gohan is going to lose to him if a fight happens on Earth.

I bet Gohan doesn't appear at all. Toriyama doesn't really think much of Gohan as a character and hasn't really thrown him that much of a bone since Resurrection F. And even in that instance, Toriyama wrote Gohan in a scenerio where he couldn't transform into anything beyond SSJ and jobbed out to First Form Freeza. If you want Gohan to get any kind of decent treatment as a character, you'll have to look to Toei material for that.

[Koitsukai]

If Moro goes to Earth, I bet Gohan is going to lose to him if a fight happens on Earth.

I bet Gohan doesn't appear at all. Toriyama doesn't really think much of Gohan as a character and hasn't really thrown him that much of a bone since Resurrection F. And even in that instance, Toriyama wrote Gohan in a scenerio where he couldn't transform into anything beyond SSJ and jobbed out to First Form Freeza. If you want Gohan to get any kind of decent treatment as a character, you'll have to look to Toei material for that.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gohan is portrayed as a scrawny doufus that forgot how to fight once more. It happened in a few months from BoG to RoF, why not from ToP to Moro arc? I hope not, but my bet is no way he retains the powers from ToP.

[Miracles]

Toriyama and Toyotaro are not obligated to show Gohan. He is a family man and does not like to fight in a battle manga.

[Lionel]

If Moro goes to Earth, I bet Gohan is going to lose to him if a fight happens on Earth.

I bet Gohan doesn't appear at all. Toriyama doesn't really think much of Gohan as a character and hasn't really thrown him that much of a bone since Resurrection F. And even in that instance, Toriyama wrote Gohan in a scenerio where he couldn't transform into anything beyond SSJ and jobbed out to First Form Freeza. If you want Gohan to get any kind of decent treatment as a character, you'll have to look to Toei material for that.

That right there is probably one of Dragon Ball Super's biggest faults, in my opinion. Toriyama has narrowed down and centralised the overarching cast so much that no one beyond everyone's favourite Saiyan duo seems to have any actionable drive or inspiration to build themselves in the pursuance of their own goals that link to the plot. Many of us just shrug it off as the result of a corner having confined the writer to the point that there's nothing else that can be done except sculpt and build upon Goku and Vegeta's ever existing dynamic -- as if there's absolutely nothing of interest or capacity that others could do in providing to the plot, with the exception of the occasional guest star in Future Trunks, Merus or Dai Kaioshin.

[batistabus]

If Moro goes to Earth, I bet Gohan is going to lose to him if a fight happens on Earth.

I bet Gohan doesn't appear at all. Toriyama doesn't really think much of Gohan as a character and hasn't really thrown him that much of a bone since Resurrection F. And even in that instance, Toriyama wrote Gohan in a scenerio where he couldn't transform into anything beyond SSJ and jobbed out to First Form Freeza. If you want Gohan to get any kind of decent treatment as a character, you'll have to look to Toei material for that.

That right there is probably one of Dragon Ball Super's biggest faults, in my opinion. Toriyama has narrowed down and centralised the overarching cast so much that no one beyond everyone's favourite Saiyan duo seems to have any actionable drive or inspiration to build themselves in the pursuance of their own goals that link to the plot. Many of us just shrug it off as the result of a corner having confined the writer to the point that there's nothing else that can be done except sculpt and build upon Goku and Vegeta's ever existing dynamic -- as if there's absolutely nothing of interest or capacity that others could do in providing to the plot, with the exception of the occasional guest star in Future Trunks, Merus or Dai Kaioshin.

I understand and sympathize with this complaint, but I don't really agree with it. Yes, many of the beloved characters from the original series have been out of the spotlight, but they're not obligated to be there. DBS is absolutely not just about Goku and Vegeta. There are plenty of new (and old) characters being developed and making moves in the spotlight. Beerus, Whis, Bulma, Champa, Freeza, Jaco, Cabba, Hit, Zeno, Zamasu, Gowasu, Trunks, Mai, Jiren, Toppo, Vermoud, Caulifla, Kale, No.17, Broly, Paragus, Cheelai/Lemo, and now Merus, Moro, and the Dai Kaiōshin are all major players. The story has no obligation to focus on any single character other than Goku, and I'd say that's a pretty solid supporting cast.

As for Gohan's role moving forward...I'm not really sure what will happen. I would've been fine with him just focusing on his studies, but based on the bonus comic where Gohan says he's been training so people will remember to invite him to things, and with the way the ToP ended, it seems like Gohan should at least "remember how to turn Super Saiyan" moving forward...

[Lionel]

I bet Gohan doesn't appear at all. Toriyama doesn't really think much of Gohan as a character and hasn't really thrown him that much of a bone since Resurrection F. And even in that instance, Toriyama wrote Gohan in a scenerio where he couldn't transform into anything beyond SSJ and jobbed out to First Form Freeza. If you want Gohan to get any kind of decent treatment as a character, you'll have to look to Toei material for that.

That right there is probably one of Dragon Ball Super's biggest faults, in my opinion. Toriyama has narrowed down and centralised the overarching cast so much that no one beyond everyone's favourite Saiyan duo seems to have any actionable drive or inspiration to build themselves in the pursuance of their own goals that link to the plot. Many of us just shrug it off as the result of a corner having confined the writer to the point that there's nothing else that can be done except sculpt and build upon Goku and Vegeta's ever existing dynamic -- as if there's absolutely nothing of interest or capacity that others could do in providing to the plot, with the exception of the occasional guest star in Future Trunks, Merus or Dai Kaioshin.

I understand and sympathize with this complaint, but I don't really agree with it. Yes, many of the beloved characters from the original series have been out of the spotlight, but they're not obligated to be there. DBS is absolutely not just about Goku and Vegeta. There are plenty of new (and old) characters being developed and making moves in the spotlight. Beerus, Whis, Bulma, Champa, Freeza, Jaco, Cabba, Hit, Zeno, Zamasu, Gowasu, Trunks, Mai, Jiren, Toppo, Vermoud, Caulifla, Kale, No.17, Broly, Paragus, Cheelai/Lemo, and now Merus, Moro, and the Dai Kaiōshin are all major players. The story has no obligation to focus on any single character other than Goku, and I'd say that's a pretty solid supporting cast.

As for Gohan's role moving forward...I'm not really sure what will happen. I would've been fine with him just focusing on his studies, but based on the bonus comic where Gohan says he's been training so people will remember to invite him to things, and with the way the ToP ended, it seems like Gohan should at least "remember how to turn Super Saiyan" moving forward...

Within the capacity of being active pursuant co-fighters that are on the path to improvement and front line action is what I mean. A number of the characters that you cited that have made an appearance in DBS have had roles to play but oftentimes they were limited to just a basic capacitating role in a single arc. Similarly with many of the acknowledged fighters, they're not in the overarching spotlight with their mettle being put to the front in battle outside of the tournaments. I would probably sooner compare them to the classic noteworthy and even occasionally recurring roles like Tao Pai Pai, Nam, #8, or Bora than the subsidiary fighting cast whose fighting journeys we did follow across multiple arcs back-to-back until the latter half of Z.

[Noitsnothim]

Let it be known that Goku has never beaten Beerus Nor Jiren

SSG lost to Beerus
Ultra Instinct Omen and "Mastered" Lost to Jiren

and it's already been hinted that Goku will face off against Jiren again soon

[OLKv3]

Piccolo is guaranteed to show up when the bandits reach earth, I wonder who else will

[Trouser]

Those guys are bandits, so it would be cool for our former bandit Yamcha to shine a little, especially after everything that happened to him in Super.

[ssj3kakarot]

Those guys are bandits, so it would be cool for our former bandit Yamcha to shine a little, especially after everything that happened to him in Super.

^^ ThiS right here!

This is the kinda stuff that would actually be awesome. It gives the old "B" class of the franchise ( C or D class with Yamcha, lol) to shine and it to actually make sense.

But this is Super, so they'd probably have Yamcha show up and go toe2toe with some former Destroyer.

I've said this time and time again, I'm all for making the old cast, or weaker cast relavent, but not at the expense of the lore, build up, etc that has estabilished.