Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:52 pm
Which isn’t even a little bit true. Kid Goku, Adult Goku, Kid Gohan, older Gohan, and Goten all sound distinctively different and are quite easy to pick out without
having to watch the screen.
i can sorta understand how people think boo saga gohan and adult goku sound too much alike, but i feel like if you're familiar enough with either voice it won't be a issue, but everything else i just don't see. kid gohan and goku especially sound very different, i genuinely don't understand how someone can confuse the two. same with goten and gohan/goku.
I can maybe understand Goku and Boo saga Gohan sounding too similar but even then Gohan tends to be more subdued.
I got nothing for anyone who says Goku and young Gohan sound too similar. It just aint even a little bit true.
ABED wrote: ↑Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:43 pm
A lot of that seems less to do with original vs. adaptation and just a matter of syntax of the subtitles.
However the meaning changes with lines like this.
it is because you cherish life that you must protect it...
In the English there is actually a really strong moral lesson here, a different kind. The message is that it's okay to fight if it means to protect.
Set your spirit free to your anger. I know how it feels. You just can’t take it any longer. Nature and the animals that I, too, liked...
D-Defend them for me.
Whereas in the Japanese, although he is essentially coaching Gohan in a sense, there is more of "please do this for me", instead of "please do this for yourself".
Like he's saying to let loose your anger and whereas in English he's saying it's okay and not a wrong to hurt someone else if it means defending life itself.
It's just much better wording and a much more solid meaning all around.
Fair enough, but that's a minor instance and there are an overwhelming number of examples of the original being superior.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:26 am
I can maybe understand Goku and Boo saga Gohan sounding too similar but even then Gohan tends to be more subdued.
i actually watched the first couple Boo saga episodes today for the first time, and actually hearing her older gohan voice in like actual episodes and not just video games and the occasional clips, i really don't think they sound that much alike. it just sounds like her kid gohan voice but deeper.
i will say that her future gohan and goku voice are more or less the same voice wise, but whatever, for the main series none of her characters are so similar where it becomes confusing.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.
I think the Boo saga is a lot of fun and I have a lot of fondness for it despite its structural issues.
Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Moro 8. Tournament of Power 9. 21st Budōkai 10. Broly 11. Battle of Gods 12. Boo 13. U6 Tournament 14. Freeza 15. Red Ribbon Army 16. Artificial Humans/Cell 17.Golden Freeza
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.
Goten and Kid Trunks are some of the blandest characters Toriyama has ever come up with. And the fact they are thrust into the position of protagonist(s) in the Majin Boo arc makes their portions of the arc the weakest by far.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:44 pm
Goten and Kid Trunks are some of the blandest characters Toriyama has ever come up with. And the fact they are thrust into the position of protagonist(s) in the Majin Boo arc makes their portions of the arc the weakest by far.
Goten and Trunks are definitely classic "jumped the shark" characters, which makes sense given that Toriyama was running on empty. However I find the anime versions at least to be entertaining, which may be a combination of the voice acting and the writing.
Lord Beerus wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:44 pm
Goten and Kid Trunks are some of the blandest characters Toriyama has ever come up with. And the fact they are thrust into the position of protagonist(s) in the Majin Boo arc makes their portions of the arc the weakest by far.
Lord Beerus wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:44 pm
Goten and Kid Trunks are some of the blandest characters Toriyama has ever come up with. And the fact they are thrust into the position of protagonist(s) in the Majin Boo arc makes their portions of the arc the weakest by far.
Wholeheartedly disagree.
Fair enough. I just think that Goten and Kid Trunks have zero characterisation and it's only they fuse to become Gotenks that any kind of personality is on display. And even then, Gotenks as a character loses it's charm far quicker than I though it would.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
As much as it blows that Gohan lost the protagonist role, the genki-dama in Buu's arc was a surprisingly cool and heartwarming way to end the fight. We get to see Vegeta put more effort into redeeming himself, a big pay-off to Mr. Satan billing himself as "humanity's champion" and we see a lot of the people throughout Dragon Ball's history chip in for one last hurrah. When Toriyama said Gohan was unsuited to the role of protagonist, I feel like this is why. He couldn't have really done something like that since he doesn't have the connections Goku made throughout the manga.
Idk if this qualifies as unpopular though...it seems like a lot of people in the circles I lurk were real bummed that Goku saved the day again. It doesn't sting as much in the manga because it spends way less time building up Gohan than the anime.
Tamagon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:03 pm
As much as it blows that Gohan lost the protagonist role, the genki-dama in Buu's arc was a surprisingly cool and heartwarming way to end the fight. We get to see Vegeta put more effort into redeeming himself, a big pay-off to Mr. Satan billing himself as "humanity's champion" and we see a lot of the people throughout Dragon Ball's history chip in for one last hurrah. When Toriyama said Gohan was unsuited to the role of protagonist, I feel like this is why. He couldn't have really done something like that since he doesn't have the connections Goku made throughout the manga.
Idk if this qualifies as unpopular though...it seems like a lot of people in the circles I lurk were real bummed that Goku saved the day again. It doesn't sting as much in the manga because it spends way less time building up Gohan than the anime.
i actually agree a ton with this, and it was something i was thinking of the whole time when i watched the early boo arc in the anime. i love gohan as the main character (and in general, he's my favorite character lol), and i do think he would've been a great protagonist, but i just don't think it makes sense narratively for dragon ball to not end with goku as the main hero, he was the center of the story for almost 9 years. the switch just happened too late, and as much as i love the great saiyaman and high school stuff, i do think it sorta hurts the boo arc because of how toriyama spent like, 2 months, introducing all this new stuff only to pretty much wipe it out completely. it does nothing for gohan as a character, and it does even less for the story, and toriyama kept doing it through out the boo arc, which makes it even more frustrating.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.
I like the 2 Star Dragon (the first evil dragon Goku and Pan fight), and I like that the dragons build in intensity.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ABED wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:19 am
I like the 2 Star Dragon (the first evil dragon Goku and Pan fight), and I like that the dragons build in intensity.
He's one of the best dragons in my opinion and his episode is also among my favourite GT episodes.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
I like the way Moro looks when he's eldery a lot more than when he's young. He looks so much more menacing and mystical when he's old. Another one of my favorite villian designs in this franchise.
Omniboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:40 pm
I like the way Moro looks when he's eldery a lot more than when he's young. He looks so much more menacing and mystical when he's old. Another one of my favorite villian designs in this franchise.
From what I've seen, "Old Moro looks better than Young Moro" is actually a pretty popular opinion (I'm also inclined to agree with said opinion but that's beside the point).
Probably Kanzenshuu's biggest Bulla fangirl. Current avatar: DBU Bulla as Sailor Princess Sadala, based on Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance
Dragon Ball Ultimate - 74 out of 150 chapters complete JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Action Blue - link Sailor Moon: Mindful of Love - link | Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance - link
Alruneia wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:56 pm
From what I've seen, "Old Moro looks better than Young Moro" is actually a pretty popular opinion (I'm also inclined to agree with said opinion but that's beside the point).
Yeah, I should probably look around a bit more before stating opinions as unpopular. I only remember people complaining about how skinny he was, but then again it's a bad thing to base things off memory. Especially when mine's can be terrible
As time has gone on I have grown to like the Kai dub's singular, one off usage of "Son Goku" less and less. The issue I have is that, while it's neat in isolation, it sort of breaks the dub's internal logic. If one were to be going through the series for the first time, in a vacuum, using the dub, and watching Kai for the Z bit, they would have absolutely no clue what "Son Goku" was. Now sure, many viewers, maybe even most, would be able to figure it out pretty quick, but now in trying to figure it out they are distracted from the actual content of the scene, one which is supposed to be this grand, important scene.
And besides, if they really wanted to have a one off use of the name, why not use it in, say, the Boo arc, instead of trying to completely rewrite the way in which Videl figures out Gohan's connection to Goku.
Dragon Ball Arc Rankings: 1. Piccolo Daimaō 2. Saiyan 3. 22nd Budōkai 4. 23rd Budōkai 5. Hunt For the Dragon Balls 6. Zamasu 7. Moro 8. Tournament of Power 9. 21st Budōkai 10. Broly 11. Battle of Gods 12. Boo 13. U6 Tournament 14. Freeza 15. Red Ribbon Army 16. Artificial Humans/Cell 17.Golden Freeza
Kunzait_83 wrote:No matter what twisted pretzel logic you contort yourself into to try and convince yourself otherwise, Raditz landing on Earth is the middle of the fucking story. Zero context, zero setup. Its in NO way meant to be seen as a "beginning point" for ANYTHING other than the next story arc. It flows precisely and fluidly from where things left off in the aftermath of the 23rd Budokai and mostly hits the ground running from there without really stopping to look back. You're plopping someone into the middle of a book starting at chapter 195 out of 519 for absolutely no good goddamn reason, with very minimal opportunity to look back at much needed context and character/story growth.