The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

I appreciate the response Koitsukai and Zamasu55!

I see no issues with most of the matchups, but I'm not so sure about this one:

5. Base Goku (Tournament of Power) VS SS Cabba (Universe 6 Arc)

- Still Cabba.

We see Base Vegeta push away Monna easily with a single Ki Blast, while Cabba was no match for her until he went Super Saiyan 2. Also, Goku was fighting on par with Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla in his Base form later.

Whether you believe Goku/Vegeta were stronger than Cabba in the U6 Tournament or not, it seems pretty evident to me that they're much stronger than the U6 Saiyans in the Tournament of Power.

Both of these cases got explained in the same episode.

Monna was caught off guard.

Base Goku fighting on par with SS2 Caulifla was said to be thanks to the former's skill. Once Caulifla learned to fight better, Goku needed to transform to keep fighting her.

[Jack Bz]

How strong is Gohan (no rage boost) at the start of the android arc? After 3 years of training would he be approaching the strength of Goku on namek?

[TobyS]

How strong is Gohan (no rage boost) at the start of the android arc? After 3 years of training would he be approaching the strength of Goku on namek?

He's presumably stronger than Tenshinhan and Kuririn due to having been stronger than Kuririn on Namek and Ten being (still) behind Kuririn during BoG even though Kuririn stopped training at least between some time after Cell and Buu.

He must be stronger than Namek Gohan and weaker than Base Vegeta and Goku circa vs 19

Those guys are still weaker than Base BoG Goku who's still weaker than 100% Freeza.

So there's not toooo much space for Gohan to exceed his old strength while still being weaker than all those people in that chain.

He probably isn't far of base Namek Goku as he comfortably achieves SS within one year and perfects it. I can't imagine he took like 11 of those months to even start it.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How strong is Gohan (no rage boost) at the start of the android arc? After 3 years of training would he be approaching the strength of Goku on namek?

Goku said he wanted Gohan to become “even further stronger” than him when they entered the Rosat, what might imply Gohan is stronger than Base Goku by this point. But it’s probably not by much given how he also expected SSJ Gohan to be a good training partner.

[Berserker1921]

-New fights-

1. Hypothetical Ssj Broly (Buu saga) vs Super Buu?

2. Merus vs 10% Beerus?

3. SsjRage Trunks (Black) vs 17?

4. Kabito kai vs Perfect Cell?

5. Darbura vs Tagoma?

6. MUI Goku (ToP) vs Blue Gogeta (Broly)?

7. GoD Toppo vs Frieza (Broly)?

8. SsjBlue Goku (Moro, No KK, or UI) vs SsjR Black?

9. Second form Frieza vs Lord Slug?

10. ssj2 Gohan (Cell) vs Majin Vegeta?

[Koitsukai]

-New fights-

1. Hypothetical Ssj Broly (Buu saga) vs Super Buu?

2. Merus vs 10% Beerus?

3. SsjRage Trunks (Black) vs 17?

4. Kabito kai vs Perfect Cell?

5. Darbura vs Tagoma?

6. MUI Goku (ToP) vs Blue Gogeta (Broly)?

7. GoD Toppo vs Frieza (Broly)?

8. SsjBlue Goku (Moro, No KK, or UI) vs SsjR Black?

9. Second form Frieza vs Lord Slug?

10. ssj2 Gohan (Cell) vs Majin Vegeta?

1- SS Broly. He didn't go through many zenkais or hard training sessions in the six years between the Buu arc and his introduction, there was nothing in Vampa but his old man and Ba. In his base form was giving SS Vegeta some trouble, so maybe his base alone beats Super Buu.

2- It's too early to tell, but I think Merus wins.

3- Trunks.

4- I have Shin around Cell Games super saiyans, so after the fusion I think he could take Cell, maybe even Super Perfect Cell.

5- Dabura. Crappy RoF SS Gohan defeated Tagoma with ease. Sort-of-trained SS Gohan couldn't take down Dabura.

6- MUI Goku, close call.

7- Toppo could've killed ToP Freeza in a heartbeat. No way Freeza got strong enough to close that massive gap.

8- Goku. After surviving Jiren's first stomp, he performed in blue higher than ever before.

9- The thing with the movies, the way I see it, is that we need to state which event created that timeline in order to see how much strong the villains and the heroes are. Like Cooler showing up after Goku kills Freeza with the genki dama, not with SS, or Broly happening in a world were Perfect Cell never got to be. So Slug happens in a world where Goku showed up in time to fight Vegeta and Nappa and saved the day, they live now in peace, so he can't be as strong as he was when he landed on Namek. So I'd say 2nd form Freeza would be enough for Slug.

10- Vegeta wins. He claimed SS2 Goku was stronger than Gohan back then, and he proved to be at least on par with said Goku.

[DBZ Macky]

-New fights-

1. Hypothetical Ssj Broly (Buu saga) vs Super Buu?

2. Merus vs 10% Beerus?

3. SsjRage Trunks (Black) vs 17?

4. Kabito kai vs Perfect Cell?

5. Darbura vs Tagoma?

6. MUI Goku (ToP) vs Blue Gogeta (Broly)?

7. GoD Toppo vs Frieza (Broly)?

8. SsjBlue Goku (Moro, No KK, or UI) vs SsjR Black?

9. Second form Frieza vs Lord Slug?

10. ssj2 Gohan (Cell) vs Majin Vegeta?

1. Broly starts out weaker but eventually overpowers Buu easily

2. Well, if we take everything at face value, then Enraged SS2 Vegeta already made Beerus use 10% of his power in the BoG arc. /s
Just by pure numbers, Beerus has a far bigger power level, but I can see Merus somehow forcing him to use more of his power.

3. I think 17 takes this, but they're on the same general level. Trunks can easily beat him if he takes some Poachers' energy to make his Genki Dama sword though.

4. Kibito Kai stomps Perfect Cell and could probably fight on par with Super Perfect Cell with his magical powars

5. Dabura takes this easily IMO, whether you believe Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 against him or not.

6. This can pretty much go either way, they're almost equal in everything - from being stronger and more skilled than almost everyone else right down to having an abysmally short time limit. I can see this coming down to which character runs out of power first, which can be 100% decided by the plot. I wish DBH would've shown something like this if they're just gonna go full fan-service mode anyways.

7. I get it - Freeza is evil, but does he really have to suffer that beatdown again?

8. SSB Goku stomps. He was already able to deflect Merged Zamasu's energy blast in the Black arc (Anime) and he's only gotten stronger since.

9. I don't remember how everything scaled in the movie, but I have Slug stronger than him on my list, so I guess Slug wins lol.

10. SS2 Majin Vegeta wins. Him and Goku were stronger than Goku back then. SS2 Vegeta (Pre-Majin) vs SS2 Gohan is a closer fight.

How strong is Gohan (no rage boost) at the start of the android arc? After 3 years of training would he be approaching the strength of Goku on namek?

He was a perfect sparring partner for Goku as soon as he got Super Saiyan, so they must be roughly on the same tier of power in base form. I think he would be slightly stronger than Base Freeza Arc Goku at the start of the Android arc.

[Grand Marshal 1]

A fight concept. Say that Goku truly follows the Kaio Ken route for Super Saiyan Blue and he discovers and masters the stable variants of ×2, ×10, ×20 and a Maximum Kaio Ken which should be like a ×30.

He uses these against Jiren for their first match. Jiren is supressed, he doesn't unleash much of his power and he can't do it instantaneously, which means that Goku has to somehow overpower him. So here is my question:

Blue Goku uses the Maximum KK against Jiren instead of the ×20 variant and when Jiren thinks that he is easy stuff, he catches him off guard and uses for just some moments a KK×100 on top of Blue to land something like Vegito's Savage strike on Zamasu, but now on Jiren. Will he be able to bring Jiren down? Will he fail? Will he deal more damage than he did in the anime in the form of Blue KK×20 Spirit Bomb and Ultra Instinct Omen?

[DBZ Macky]

A fight concept. Say that Goku truly follows the Kaio Ken route for Super Saiyan Blue and he discovers and masters the stable variants of ×2, ×10, ×20 and a Maximum Kaio Ken which should be like a ×30.

He uses these against Jiren for their first match. Jiren is supressed, he doesn't unleash much of his power and he can't do it instantaneously, which means that Goku has to somehow overpower him. So here is my question:

Blue Goku uses the Maximum KK against Jiren instead of the ×20 variant and when Jiren thinks that he is easy stuff, he catches him off guard and uses for just some moments a KK×100 on top of Blue to land something like Vegito's Savage strike on Zamasu, but now on Jiren. Will he be able to bring Jiren down? Will he fail? Will he deal more damage than he did in the anime in the form of Blue KK×20 Spirit Bomb and Ultra Instinct Omen?

Jiren wasn't instantly defeated even after taking multiple hits from Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku, so I think he could survive not just a single, but a few hits from a Kaio-Ken x100 Goku. Not to mention Goku might as well self-destruct after putting that much strain on his body.

But this seems like a cool idea, it'd probably do more damage than UI Omen and definitely shake Jiren up. Perhaps Goku could even go Ultra Instinct after he ends up damaging his body so much.

[Koitsukai]

A fight concept. Say that Goku truly follows the Kaio Ken route for Super Saiyan Blue and he discovers and masters the stable variants of ×2, ×10, ×20 and a Maximum Kaio Ken which should be like a ×30.

He uses these against Jiren for their first match. Jiren is supressed, he doesn't unleash much of his power and he can't do it instantaneously, which means that Goku has to somehow overpower him. So here is my question:

Blue Goku uses the Maximum KK against Jiren instead of the ×20 variant and when Jiren thinks that he is easy stuff, he catches him off guard and uses for just some moments a KK×100 on top of Blue to land something like Vegito's Savage strike on Zamasu, but now on Jiren. Will he be able to bring Jiren down? Will he fail? Will he deal more damage than he did in the anime in the form of Blue KK×20 Spirit Bomb and Ultra Instinct Omen?

I think Goku has a chance of landing the strike and Jiren feeling it, Vegeta could in his first encounter with him and I doubt that he was 100x stronger than moments before, just read his movements and caught him off guard. We don't know how much stronger than SSBKKx20 1st Omen was, but Supressed Jiren managed to block that, so the surprise factor is vital for KKx100 Blue Goku.

If Omen is much more than 70x, then Jiren may feel the KKx100 but brush it off easily. If they are somewhat similar boosts, then KKx100 might deal the same damage Omen did when he found a way to overpower Jiren. If Omen is less than 70x, then he has a chance to kick his ass for a few seconds until Goku's body gives up.

To me, 1st Omen and KKx100 are on the same ballpark, so no, I don't think it would be enough to defeat him. Hurt him, yes, but not much more.
In any case, I don't see Goku lasting enough time in KKx100 to take Supressed Jiren down for good.

[Tai Lung]

Next Battle

Nuova shenron VS Super 17
Hit (Anime) VS Moro currently
Buu Piccolo VS Ultra Buu

[Koitsukai]

Next Battle

Nuova shenron VS Super 17
Hit (Anime) VS Moro currently
Buu Piccolo VS Ultra Buu

-I'm going with Super 17. He was trashing SS4 Goku. The dragon, while faster, had an even fight before losing to SS4 Goku. But in any case, a close one.

-Hit? I'm not so sure with this one because the manga moves so slow that Moro's last serious fight was like 4 months ago, but Toyo seems to be going for the technique over power thing, so no matter how strong Moro is, a good technique could defeat him. And Hit has the best one.

-Ultra Buu. When Buu went through that phase before becoming pure, it was stated that his ki was raising. Buuccolo shouldn't raise Super Buu's power that much.

-----------

More fights:

1) Jeez and Burter vs Turles and his crew

2) 1st form Cell (before absorbing the rugby team) vs Android 17

3) Future 18 vs Android arc Present SS Vegeta (she wasn't as strong as present 18, and Vegeta was stronger than future Vegeta, can win?)

4) Android 20 vs Android 19

5) Android 19&20 (no absorption) vs SS Goku (no heart virus)

6) Android 20 vs Freeza (which form Freeza needs to win?)

7) Android 20 vs Pui Pui

SS Nappa (zenkai'd after Goku broke his back) vs Ginyu Tokusentai

9) Buu arc SS Goten vs Android 19 (no absorption)

[GreatSaiyaman123]

More fights:

1) Jeez and Burter vs Turles and his crew

2) 1st form Cell (before absorbing the rugby team) vs Android 17

3) Future 18 vs Android arc Present SS Vegeta (she wasn't as strong as present 18, and Vegeta was stronger than future Vegeta, can win?)

4) Android 20 vs Android 19

5) Android 19&20 (no absorption) vs SS Goku (no heart virus)

6) Android 20 vs Freeza (which form Freeza needs to win?)

7) Android 20 vs Pui Pui

SS Nappa (zenkai'd after Goku broke his back) vs Ginyu Tokusentai

9) Buu arc SS Goten vs Android 19 (no absorption)
[/

1. Turles’ crew are too many, even if they’re weaker they’d overwhelm the duo after a fight.

2. Impossible to tell.

3. Vegeta wins given how Present 28 had her hands full with him.

4. Android 20 is implied in the story and confirmed in Daizenshuu to be stronger, so by default he wins.

5. If he’s careful about the absorbtions, he takes on both easily.

6. Freeza wins with 50% of his power without much trouble.

7. Android 20 one shots. I doubt Base Vegeta can take on him.

8. Even regular Nappa would be too strong for the Ginyus, let alone a Zenkai’d one. Though he might lose because of Gurdo’s powers.

[sunsetshimmer]

Next Battle

Nuova shenron VS Super 17
Hit (Anime) VS Moro currently
Buu Piccolo VS Ultra Buu

-Nuova's attacks are fire based so maybe Super 17 can't absorb them. I'd go with Nuova. He can always use Nuova Sphere which was strong enough to kill Omega even with his regeneration abilities.
-As far as i know, Moro steals ki and since Hit doesn't use transformations and rely on physical attacks he could've won that
-Ultra Buu should win as Piccolo's power was low and had more impact on Buu's inteligence than on his power obviously

[p-hyvo]

Next Battle



-----------

More fights:

1) Jeez and Burter vs Turles and his crew

2) 1st form Cell (before absorbing the rugby team) vs Android 17

3) Future 18 vs Android arc Present SS Vegeta (she wasn't as strong as present 18, and Vegeta was stronger than future Vegeta, can win?)

4) Android 20 vs Android 19

5) Android 19&20 (no absorption) vs SS Goku (no heart virus)

6) Android 20 vs Freeza (which form Freeza needs to win?)

7) Android 20 vs Pui Pui

SS Nappa (zenkai'd after Goku broke his back) vs Ginyu Tokusentai

9) Buu arc SS Goten vs Android 19 (no absorption)

1) jeice and burter are too superior when it comes to pl. Turles crew is screwed, but turles wins if he eats the fruit

2) 17 definitely. That cell was only stronger than freezer in piccolo's opinion

3) I thinks that trunks though that present android were stronger just because future androids never went all out on him, while present ones did. So was, 18 still wins

4) depends on who absorbs some attacks first

5) Goku, definitely. They were in the same tier of Goku with the heart disease
Healthy Goku>>Goku a/disease>=19=20 >yardrat Goku imo

6) android 20 oneshots. He's as strong as 19, that endured a right with a Goku that, even if has a disease, was stronger than post yardrat Goku, who could one shot mecha freezer that is stronger than namecc freezer

7) pocus wins. Going by the anime, base buu saga vegeta is stronger than his cell games ssj self and I don't think that pocus is a lot weaker than him

nappa regardless . Even his saiyan saga self as a ssj would have been enough to dispatch ginew and his squad

9) Goten, if he doesn't let 19 absorb some attacks. Else, is up to how many energy 19 absorbs

[SSJgogeto]

The Ginyu Force vs Dr. Gero's door - Ginyu Force
Shisami vs Android 16 - Shisami
SSJ Nappa (Saiyan saga) vs Third Form Freeza - Freeza
ChiChi vs Spopovich - Spopovich
ToP Piccolo vs Present Zamasu - Piccolo
Anilaza vs SSBE Vegeta - Vegeta
Perfect Cell vs SSJ Gotenks - Gotenks
Shin vs 3 Cell jrs. - Cell Jrs.
End of GT Krillin vs Ultimate/Mystic Gohan (Buu saga) - Gohan

1.) SSBE Vegeta vs. SS Gogeta (DBS) - Gogeta, probably
2.) SSBKKx20 Goku (No drain) vs. SS Gogeta (DBS) - Gogeta, probably
3.) SSBE Vegeta/SSBKKx20 Goku (No drain) vs. FPSS Broly (DBS) - Broly
4.) SSBE Vegeta (Post-ToP) vs. SSBKKx20 Goku (No drain/Post-ToP) - tie
5.) SSBE Vegeta vs. Pseudo-SSBE Vegeta (Manga) - Vegeta (anime), probably
6.) SSBKKx20 Goku vs. Pseudo-SSBKK Goku (Manga) - Goku (anime), probably
7.) Toppo Vs. Toppo (Manga) - anime
8.) Dyspo vs. Dyspo (Manga) - anime
9.) Jiren vs. Jiren (Manga) - anime
10.) Gohan (ToP) vs. Gohan (Manga/ToP) - anime
11.) Piccolo (ToP) vs. Piccolo (Manga/ToP) - anime
12.) 17 (ToP) vs. 17 (Manga/ToP) - anime
13.) 18 (ToP) vs. 18 (Manga/ToP) - anime
14.) Krillin (ToP) vs. Krillin (Manga/ToP) - anime, probably
15.) Tien (ToP) vs. Tien (Manga/ToP) - anime, probably
16.) Roshi (ToP) vs. Roshi (Manga/ToP) - anime
17.)Freeza (ToP) vs. Freeza (Manga/ToP) - anime
18.) Beerus vs. Beerus (Manga) - manga
19.) Jiren vs. Broly (DBS) - Jiren
20.) Every GT Antagonist/Villain (And SS4 Gogeta) vs. UI Goku, Jiren & Broly (DBS) - Goku, Jiren & Broly

-Post EoZ Pan vs Post EoZ Bra (trained by Vegeta in order to make a fighter out of her) - Pan, probably
-DBS Teenage Broly (post Piccolo Daimaoh arc) vs Cooler - Cooler, probably
-Beets vs Ma Junior - Beets
-BoG God Goku vs DBS Broly (before Buu woke up) - Broly, probably
-Namek FF Freeza vs Kid Jiren after losing Gicchin - Freeza
-King Cold vs DBS Ohzaru Broly (Saiyan arc) - Cold, probably

[SSJgogeto]

1. Ssj Ikari Vegeta (Cell) vs Perfect Cell? - Vegeta
2. Arale vs Jiren? - Jiren
3. Gogeta (namek) vs 50% Frieza? - Frieza
4. Spirit Sword Trunks vs GoD Toppo? - Toppo
5. Ssj broly vs M. Zamasu? (No immortality) - Zamasu

1. Pikkon vs Ssj Gohan (saiyanman arc)? - Pikkon
2. Copy SsjB Vegeta and Ssj rose Black (1st time) vs SsjB Goku (ToP)? - Goku
3. Vegito Blue (ToP) vs GoD Toppo? - Toppo
4. Light Speed Dyspo vs SsjB Vegeta (U6)? - Dyspo
5. Golden Frieza (Broly) vs Base Gogeta (Broly)? - Frieza
6. Hiderdrugan vs Super Buu (no absorbing)? - Buu
7. Hit (ToP) vs FP Ssj Rose Black (end of the arc)? - Black
8. 17 vs Ssj Broly? - Broly
9. Jiren 110 vs Ssj Kefla? - Jiren
10. Old Moro vs Base Toppo? - Moro

-Super Buu(can't absorb) vs SS3 Goku(dead) + Majin SS2 Vegeta + SS2 Gohan (post Dabura, pre Z-Sword) - Buu
-SS2 Gohan that got his energy stolen by Yamu vs Present Zamasu - Gohan
-SS2 Gohan (after Z-Sword but before it broke) vs Angry Fat Buu (that "killed" Vegeta) - Buu
-SS3 Gotenks(from Z, not the movie) vs Janemba - Gotenks
-Android 16 vs SS Goku (no heart disease) SS Vegeta and SS Trunks - 16

[Zamasu55]

-New fights-

1. Hypothetical Ssj Broly (Buu saga) vs Super Buu?

2. Merus vs 10% Beerus?

3. SsjRage Trunks (Black) vs 17?

4. Kabito kai vs Perfect Cell?

5. Darbura vs Tagoma?

6. MUI Goku (ToP) vs Blue Gogeta (Broly)?

7. GoD Toppo vs Frieza (Broly)?

8. SsjBlue Goku (Moro, No KK, or UI) vs SsjR Black?

9. Second form Frieza vs Lord Slug?

10. ssj2 Gohan (Cell) vs Majin Vegeta?

- No idea.

- Merus, no contest.

- What does (Black) mean?
The one that fought Black the last time? I think he takes it with some difficulty.

- Cell.

- Tagoma, even after training, is a weakling to Dabura.

- MUI Goku was confirmed to be stronger than fusions many times, lastly in Super Dragon Ball Heroes and even in the recent manga saga (Goku wants to master it in order to beat Moro, instead of fusing with Vegeta).

- Toppo, just as easily as he did in the ToP.

- This Goku can use Perfected Ssj Blue, Black has no hope of surviving more than 1 minute.

- Slug.

- Majin Vegeta was confirmed to be stronger than Gohan. He states it right away.

Next Battle

Nuova shenron VS Super 17
Hit (Anime) VS Moro currently
Buu Piccolo VS Ultra Buu

- Super 17 is stronger than Nuova. Just compare their fights with Ssj4 Goku. The Dragon was just as strong, the Android beat him. But I guess Nuova's suicide attack could defeat 17. It'd be a draw though.
- Hit's got his fist attack that is so OP that TOEI make him not use when he can (see SDBH). And Moro isn't Jiren, he cannot avoid it nor block it with his hand.
- Buff Buu was stated to be stronger than Super Buu. Piccolo Buu is just a more intelligent version of the former, it doesn't change a thing.

More fights:

1) Jeez and Burter vs Turles and his crew

2) 1st form Cell (before absorbing the rugby team) vs Android 17

3) Future 18 vs Android arc Present SS Vegeta (she wasn't as strong as present 18, and Vegeta was stronger than future Vegeta, can win?)

4) Android 20 vs Android 19

5) Android 19&20 (no absorption) vs SS Goku (no heart virus)

6) Android 20 vs Freeza (which form Freeza needs to win?)

7) Android 20 vs Pui Pui

SS Nappa (zenkai'd after Goku broke his back) vs Ginyu Tokusentai

9) Buu arc SS Goten vs Android 19 (no absorption)
[/quote]

- Turles one-shots, seriously.

- 17 of course.

- It's probably a draw until Vegeta runs out of energy and inevitably dies.

- 19 is weaker than him before absorbing Goku and Vegeta's energy. So be more specific.

- Goku easily.

- If 19 absorbs a very good amount of energy, Freeza would need to go all out.

- Oh God... Gero slaughters him.

- Pass.

- Goten one-shots.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Another fighting concept.

Goku VS Omega Shenron.

After the Saiyan witnesses the growth in power showcased by the Shadow Dragon, SSJ4 proves useless and so does Ultra Full Power. Even when Vegeta comes, nothing changes and despite fusions being used, Omega always recovers.

Say that in this scenario Goku is able to have access to the Fruits of the Tree of Might. He consumes a single fruit. Will he be able to defeat Omega Shenron? Only 1 fruit exists.

[p-hyvo]

Another fighting concept.

Goku VS Omega Shenron.

After the Saiyan witnesses the growth in power showcased by the Shadow Dragon, SSJ4 proves useless and so does Ultra Full Power. Even when Vegeta comes, nothing changes and despite fusions being used, Omega always recovers.

Say that in this scenario Goku is able to have access to the Fruits of the Tree of Might. He consumes a single fruit. Will he be able to defeat Omega Shenron? Only 1 fruit exists.

Yes, definitely. They fruits gives you possibly a x15 boots, considering that base turles was weaker than Goku and , after the fruit was beaten, turles stomped kk10 goku