Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Desassina]

With the revelation that Pure Boo had God Ki, how would you change this old scale that I had, as far as I can remember from before DBS?

Spoiler:

Gohan Boo: 1040 (Piccolo and kids not considered).
Gotenks Boo: 960 (Piccolo not considered for simplicity).

D.K. Boo: 640 (Pure Boo w/ Majin Boo attached).

S.K. Boo: 560
Evil Boo: 480
Pure Boo: 400
Pure Evil Boo: 320
Majin Boo: 240 (Dai Kaioshin blocking Pure Boo's power).
Innocent Boo: 160

South Kaioshin: 160
Dai Kaioshin: 80

Whether Goku fought Pure Boo with Dai Kaioshin's power or not, one thing must be true for the latter to possess his magic: Majin Boo was somehow reattached to be stolen, and the sum of their powers would be equal to S.K. Boo with Dai Kaioshin remembering.

[Soldierofficial]

Well over all the z verse in the anime, 17/18 tier in the manga (17 and 18 form z obviously)

Do you think RoF Freeza needed to transform to defeat Gohan and Piccolo in the manga?

In the manga He would need to, considering that his final form is low ssb tier

But he didnt, the story were the same as in the film as far as we know, or do you have proof that Freeza need 2nd form to defeat Gohan?

Final Form Freeza was weaker than Base Goku.

[p-hyvo]

Do you think RoF Freeza needed to transform to defeat Gohan and Piccolo in the manga?

In the manga He would need to, considering that his final form is low ssb tier

But he didnt, the story were the same as in the film as far as we know, or do you have proof that Freeza need 2nd form to defeat Gohan?

Final Form Freeza was weaker than Base Goku.

Imo,in the manga to be coherent with the tournament of power Goku started the match as a ssj against freezer, than turned ssb when he turned golden.

Obviously is just an opinion, so you are free to dissent

[Thani]

Honestly, is it really that much of a stretch to assume they retconned FF Freeza's power? Just like everything from the early episodes of Super. FF Freeza being on the range of SSG makes some sense when judging his performance in the ToP AND how he was above and beyond everyone in RoF.

May be headcanon, but I guess it works.

[Hugo Boss]

It's not a stretch cause FF Freeza was boxing with Dyspo, who bodied Hit and was tagging up SSJG Goku. Golden Freeza and Blue Kakarot damaged each other before the TOP, where Freeza was using Goku to fight against Jiren with UI. Even gave him power to assure U7's victory so he could get brought back to life too. All the evidence points to Freeza's FF being Red level.

Fighting Dyspo is not really an evidence, since he isn’t very strong, just too fast, and Freeza had previous knowledge of how to properly fight him, which Hit and Goku didn’t. Anyway, it wasn’t until using his golden form that Freeza turned the tables on his favor.

We do know that unless he bulks up he never is at 100% of his full power on his final form so who said he's always at 70% during it? He can be way lower. That way he can be equal to base Goku and also stronger than Frost with the same form. This also fits with what the narrator said on E25, that in order to surpass FF Freeza, Goku needed to turn Blue.

Good point. That way U6 and U7 can rival each other in the same forms.

[ZombieVito]

Honestly, is it really that much of a stretch to assume they retconned FF Freeza's power? Just like everything from the early episodes of Super. FF Freeza being on the range of SSG makes some sense when judging his performance in the ToP AND how he was above and beyond everyone in RoF.

May be headcanon, but I guess it works.

I don't see anything that puts FF Freeza at SSG tier at the ToP.

Quite the contrary actually since he turned Gold to tank SS2 Cabba's Galick Gun.

[Miracles]

It's not a stretch cause FF Freeza was boxing with Dyspo, who bodied Hit and was tagging up SSJG Goku. Golden Freeza and Blue Kakarot damaged each other before the TOP, where Freeza was using Goku to fight against Jiren with UI. Even gave him power to assure U7's victory so he could get brought back to life too. All the evidence points to Freeza's FF being Red level.

Fighting Dyspo is not really an evidence, since he isn’t very strong, just too fast, and Freeza had previous knowledge of how to properly fight him, which Hit and Goku didn’t. Anyway, it wasn’t until using his golden form that Freeza turned the tables on his favor.

Wow, we still don't understand the mechanics of Dragonball. No where was it stated that Dyspo's speed and strength are disproportional. His punches damaged Hit and hurt Red Goku. FF Freeza facing Dyspo means everything.

[p-hyvo]

Honestly, is it really that much of a stretch to assume they retconned FF Freeza's power? Just like everything from the early episodes of Super. FF Freeza being on the range of SSG makes some sense when judging his performance in the ToP AND how he was above and beyond everyone in RoF.

May be headcanon, but I guess it works.

I don't see anything that puts FF Freeza at SSG tier at the ToP.

Quite the contrary actually since he turned Gold to tank SS2 Cabba's Galick Gun.

He turned Gold against Kyabe just because he hates saiyans and he's a sadic asshole, not because he really needed to. That's just base understanding of the character.
He saw an easy prey in Kyabe and used it to let go all his suppressed hatred for saiyans and take his little revenge.

[ZombieVito]

Wow, we still don't understand the mechanics of Dragonball. No where was it stated that Dyspo's speed and strength are disproportional. His punches damaged Hit and hurt Red Goku. FF Freeza facing Dyspo means everything.

Of course he will damage them. He's so fast, Hit and SSG Goku can't react to Dyspo's attacks.

Off guard attacks are deadly now. Just look what Sorbet did to Goku.

He turned Gold against Kyabe just because he hates saiyans and he's a sadic asshole, not because he really needed to. That's just base understanding of the character.
He saw an easy prey in Kyabe and used it to let go all his suppressed hatred for saiyans and take his little revenge.

Headcanon.

[Hugo Boss]

Wow, we still don't understand the mechanics of Dragonball. No where was it stated that Dyspo's speed and strength are disproportional. His punches damaged Hit and hurt Red Goku. FF Freeza facing Dyspo means everything.

Dyspo is notably fast for his level of strength. It was just a matter of figuring out how he moves to properly fight him. And since Freeza saw Dyspo fighting before, he knew how to catch him. Not that it mattered, since he still needed his golden form to keep him in check.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Wow, we still don't understand the mechanics of Dragonball. No where was it stated that Dyspo's speed and strength are disproportional. His punches damaged Hit and hurt Red Goku. FF Freeza facing Dyspo means everything.

Dyspo is notably fast for his level of strength. It was just a matter of figuring out how he moves to properly fight him. And since Freeza saw Dyspo fighting before, he knew how to catch him. Not that it mattered, since he still needed his golden form to keep him in check.

Hit also bodied Dyspo once he learned his secret though. That's worth mentioning. He would have defeated him in an instant and actually much faster than FF Freeza. Against Freeza, Dyspo was all cocky despite Freeza somewhat implying the way of fighting him. Against Hit though, he felt fear for real.

Of course that is also because Hit is most certainly Blue level+. That's what the show wants us to believe at least.

Honestly, is it really that much of a stretch to assume they retconned FF Freeza's power? Just like everything from the early episodes of Super. FF Freeza being on the range of SSG makes some sense when judging his performance in the ToP AND how he was above and beyond everyone in RoF.

May be headcanon, but I guess it works.

I don't see anything that puts FF Freeza at SSG tier at the ToP.

Quite the contrary actually since he turned Gold to tank SS2 Cabba's Galick Gun.

He turned Gold against Kyabe just because he hates saiyans and he's a sadic asshole, not because he really needed to. That's just base understanding of the character.
He saw an easy prey in Kyabe and used it to let go all his suppressed hatred for saiyans and take his little revenge.

I can get behind that for the reasons stated. Freeza's hate wanting to inflict as much pain as possible to the Saiyan. Him questioning whether he should use his power for such scum helps the work too. It meant that Golden was way too much for Cabba even at max power as a SS2 while charging an attack.

Again, instances such as Freeza being confident against SS2 U6 Saiyans contradicts the low SSG level of his power, as weakened Base Goku could use technique and somewhat of the power that he was left with, to challenge a SS2 that previously matched him. Things progressed of course, but even in the end of the Tournament a more drained Goku (let's be real, he took more punishment than Freeza who only got beat for 5 minutes by Toppo) proved to be the key in defeating Jiren (17 at max and Freeza dropping his Golden to exert more energy in the Final could barely keep up against FP/100% Jiren's aura (which itself dropped significantly on level once broken).

Just presenting ideas and facts. Trying to see what can fit the scaling better.

[Miracles]

Wow, we still don't understand the mechanics of Dragonball. No where was it stated that Dyspo's speed and strength are disproportional. His punches damaged Hit and hurt Red Goku. FF Freeza facing Dyspo means everything.

Of course he will damage them. He's so fast, Hit and SSG Goku can't react to Dyspo's attacks.

Off guard attacks are deadly now. Just look what Sorbet did to Goku.

Dyspo was trading with Freeza blow for blow. Just like every other balanced DB fight does.

Wow, we still don't understand the mechanics of Dragonball. No where was it stated that Dyspo's speed and strength are disproportional. His punches damaged Hit and hurt Red Goku. FF Freeza facing Dyspo means everything.

Dyspo is notably fast for his level of strength. It was just a matter of figuring out how he moves to properly fight him. And since Freeza saw Dyspo fighting before, he knew how to catch him. Not that it mattered, since he still needed his golden form to keep him in check.

Doesn't change the fact that Freeza could keep up in his FF form. Noted by Dyspo. Then easily surpassed Dyspo in speed when he went Golden.

[p-hyvo]

Wow, we still don't understand the mechanics of Dragonball. No where was it stated that Dyspo's speed and strength are disproportional. His punches damaged Hit and hurt Red Goku. FF Freeza facing Dyspo means everything.

Of course he will damage them. He's so fast, Hit and SSG Goku can't react to Dyspo's attacks.

Off guard attacks are deadly now. Just look what Sorbet did to Goku.

He turned Gold against Kyabe just because he hates saiyans and he's a sadic asshole, not because he really needed to. That's just base understanding of the character.
He saw an easy prey in Kyabe and used it to let go all his suppressed hatred for saiyans and take his little revenge.

Headcanon.

It's easy to label as headcanon whatever others thinks but you don't.
Bring proofs in

[Hugo Boss]

The point is that Freeza never said he didn’t need to use his golden form against SS2 Cabba, like you are trying to imply. He actually said it was a waste of energy, which wouldn’t make sense from the beginning if it wasn’t necessary in that circumstance, since Freeza strategy was avoiding energy consumption.

[Thani]

The thing with Cabba does have merit tho, he even complained having to exert that kind of effort against scum (which Cabba is, compared to Freeza). It implies that SS2 Cabba > FF Freeza.

At the same time, Freeza seemed confident in fighting both Kale and Caulifla, a SS2 and a LSSj nearing SSG's power. I think Freeza, now, would be cautious enough not to fight them unprepared (since they would pummel his FF).

Basically it's weird, thinking about it. They should be more careful with those things, moving forward.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Btw, it isn't Canon and stuff, but still somewhat related to Super, but I am eager to see how Jiren will react to Gogeta's power and how will it play out against the likes of Ultra Godslayer Hearts. This will answer some questions I believe for fusion.

Against Cumber it just got very bad. This time they might do it properly.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Gogeta vs godslayer hearts...


wow did i not expect that. that would bump fusion up quite a lot.

vegito blue being base kamba level in the anime was horrible to be honest


https://twitter.com/DB_HEROES/status/11 ... 0450551809

[Zamasu55]

Btw, it isn't Canon and stuff, but still somewhat related to Super, but I am eager to see how Jiren will react to Gogeta's power and how will it play out against the likes of Ultra Godslayer Hearts. This will answer some questions I believe for fusion.

Against Cumber it just got very bad. This time they might do it properly.

He won't react or say anything, they make characters have like 3 lines per episode to spare money, look at Android 17, he hasn't been talking for like 4 episodes now.

[Zamasu55]

Gogeta vs godslayer hearts...


wow did i not expect that. that would bump fusion up quite a lot.

vegito blue being base kamba level in the anime was horrible to be honest


https://twitter.com/DB_HEROES/status/11 ... 0450551809

Cumber is a beast, anyway. It's not like he's some weakling.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Gogeta vs godslayer hearts...


wow did i not expect that. that would bump fusion up quite a lot.

vegito blue being base kamba level in the anime was horrible to be honest


https://twitter.com/DB_HEROES/status/11 ... 0450551809

Cumber is a beast, anyway. It's not like he's some weakling.

at this point, he is just strong, nothing else