DragonBall Z Abridged

[FoolsGil]

Well well well........ looks like our first ShortZ episode is here! Recommendation: DON'T SHAKE THE BABY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8FzFz7Oulc

See lots of potential with this.

[Scsigs]

Ok, I didn't think I'd like that short as much as I did.

[Bansho64]

Well well well........ looks like our first ShortZ episode is here! Recommendation: DON'T SHAKE THE BABY.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8FzFz7Oulc

Well, ain't this a treat! This was really good. Kudos to everyone involved in making this, it really is a work of art. It was funny and also kinda sweet with that moment with Vegeta at the end.

[Valerius Dover]

Seems the Buu arc is gonna be done in the ShortZ style instead of using the original animation.
I dunno about you guys, but I'm down. The possibilities for what we could see are limitless now.

[Robo4900]

Seems the Buu arc is gonna be done in the ShortZ style instead of using the original animation.
I dunno about you guys, but I'm down. The possibilities for what we could see are limitless now.

Wait, what?...

Not sure how I feel about that tbh.
I can understand why, I mean they've been talking about being burnt out on dealing with the constraints of the footage for ages (it actually is what killed Bojack, after all), but... I can't say I'm unreservedly behind that, if that's the direction they're going. I liked the short, but... Well... The animation is clearly not high-tier professional stuff, and... I dunno. It might work, I'm interested to see where this goes, but... I dunno. I reserve proper judgement until we see the series actually happening, and I'm glad that if indeed this is the style they go for, they're trying it out with these shorts first, it's a good idea for them to dip their feet in and try the new format out before going ham, I think diving straight in could easily lead to a "First two arcs of Super" situation in terms of animation, and much as I did enjoy the short, it's got rough edges that I can totally see them smoothing out as they produce them...
But, my feelings on this being how they're doing the Boo arc are decidedly mixed.

I guess I'll have to watch the Q&A to get the full story when I have the time, but just the sort of "Dragon Shorts is what DBZA is going to be" headline is... Well, as I say, my feelings are mixed.

[Valerius Dover]

^ It was a recent in-depth podcast they did. I believe it's on their YouTube channel. Saw KaiserNeko answer some queries about it on Reddit as well where was it linked.

[Robo4900]

Yeah. Apologies; I edited my post to change my question where you heard it to a remark that I'll watch the Q&A when I get the time, after I remembered the Q&A was a thing I hadn't had the chance to see, and after I did a cursory googling...

Anyway, here's one thing I'll say having perused Kaiser's responses to the Reddit thread:
There's a suggestion from him that they may not call it DBZA season 4 if they go on to do it in this style, and personally, I think that would be a mistake. I stand by the fact I'm decidedly mixed on the decision for the change in direction, but I 100% understand why, and having sat on it for even as short a time as I have, I think if TFS are confident about this new direction, they should unabashedly move forward with it, and call this thing the official DBZA season 4. I imagine there's basically no chance that they'd take a mulligan and go back to the old style after they've dug into making it in the new style, so why call it something else just to appease the people who don't like it?
I say, if TFS are confident enough to move forward with this style for DBZA season 4, and assuming they're fine with the fact that they will indeed lose some fans (which, let's be honest, is definitely going to happen), I think it makes for a bold statement on TFS's future if this is called DBZA season 4. There was already the ever-looming questions of "What happens after Z is done? Do you go back and do DB, which is another half the length of the series again? Do you do GT, which you guys don't like? Do you do Super, which is a currently-running show that many (myself and, from what I've observed, many in TFS included) consider to be a bit shit?"
In the new style, it opens TFS up to do absolutely anything once they reach the end of the Boo arc. Going back and doing the OG DB story becomes much easier because they're free to do their fun take on the story without comitting to another several years of having to deal with the constraints of editing existing footage, they could skip to the GT era and take the story outlines as a launchpad to do their own entirely new work set in that era, etc. etc.
And calling this DBZA season 4, rather than separating it out into its own thing, definitively says "We're still TFS, this is still the same show we always made, but we've made a change that gives us more freedom to do it the way we want to, and more effectively channel our creative energies." Creates a very definitive mission statement on the future of DBZA content, I think.
And in my opinion, splintering it out into its own thing would just weaken this, and give a perception that DBZA is a thing that had its time and has concluded, and TFS are now working on some weird spinoff. Rather than it being the controversial but ambitious final season, I think there'd be a heavy risk that it'd be the spinoff that people generally didn't give a chance.

Essentially, what I'm saying is, I still am very strongly mixed in my feelings on how this will turn out, but even if I end up not liking this, I appreciate why TFS are doing this, and I hope they don't compromise the work just to try to appease the fans who would never be pleased by this change of direction, no matter how it's done. If done right, this could be a brave new era for TFS, a new golden age. So, much as I'm unsure of how it'll turn out, I look forward to seeing how it unfolds. And I hope the backlash from some fans won't lead TFS to curb their no-doubt very lofty ambitions.

Just my two cents.

[Brikikoz]

I have faith in TFS that they'll eventually come around to Bojack and figure out a way to make it work, even if it's a 5 minute Halloween special.

Bojack has to collect on his bet to King Kai, after all.

[Robo4900]

lol.

Well, Kaiser said in the Reddit thread that they may do Bojack in the new style, since the footage constraints that killed it originally no longer apply.
I think that'd actually make for a really cool way to introduce the new style to mainline DBZA content, sort of ease things in and in combination with the ShortZ probably would be a great show of the kind of stuff they can do without the constraints of the original footage.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

At the very least, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing plenty of original DBZA content to come from DragonShortZ in the future.

Just a whole lot of craziness you can't get from the original anime.

[WittyUsername]

Seems the Buu arc is gonna be done in the ShortZ style instead of using the original animation.
I dunno about you guys, but I'm down. The possibilities for what we could see are limitless now.

Wait, what? Well, I guess that would be one way to get Toei off their backs.

[Scsigs]

Seems the Buu arc is gonna be done in the ShortZ style instead of using the original animation.
I dunno about you guys, but I'm down. The possibilities for what we could see are limitless now.

Wait, what? Well, I guess that would be one way to get Toei off their backs.

That's what Kaiser implied in their Patreon Q&A, at least.

[WittyUsername]

Seems the Buu arc is gonna be done in the ShortZ style instead of using the original animation.
I dunno about you guys, but I'm down. The possibilities for what we could see are limitless now.

Wait, what? Well, I guess that would be one way to get Toei off their backs.

That's what Kaiser implied in their Patreon Q&A, at least.

That would be fine by me. I’ve said this before, but DBZA has progressively felt less like an actual parody of DBZ, and more like a tongue-in-cheek dub of the series. Animating the entire thing from scratch would not only remove the limitations of having to work with pre-existing footage, but it could potentially allow them to be more wacky and out there with their retelling of the series.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Personally I prefer editing the original footage.

[MarCas92]

On Reddit Kaiser cleared it up: They ARE NOT gonna use anime footage anymore and season 4 will be some form of the Dragonshortz format. I for one and EXTREMELY disappointed but sympathetic. I had a conversation about Abridged series with Martin (Littlekuriboh) and how the original format he pioneered is pretty much dead with him and TFS being the only ones really doing it anymore. He mentioned something along the lines of "Abridging is definitely in a slump rn, but not dead. Someone is going to figure out a new format and that will be the future of abridged series, we just have to wait and see who pioneers it". I can definitely agree that there is a new format that needs to be created for Abridged series if they want to survive, but the DragonshortZ ain't it chief. It really breaks my heart since LK is also going to finish up YGO Abridged pretty soon and if TFS really goes through with their new plans then Abridged series were born and died with Little Kuriboh. Ironic, but fitting...

I can't help but wonder, are they not using DB footage anymore because they don't find it creatively fulfilling or because it's not practical from a business standpoint due to Youtube's copyright system and other factors?

It's most likely the latter and if that's the case (this is going to make me sound like a pretentious prick) I can't respect the decision. TFS doesn't owe us anything, but now that they've become a "business" they're priorities have clearly changed (and understandably so). I hate to use the term "sellout" but I mean: they are literally changing the format of their art because not doing so wouldn't help them advance financially as a brand. The ultimate goal is to move away from DBZA, Kaiser has always made that clear. This is just a step closer to that endgame. DBZA started off as fanmade parody designed as a love letter to the series we all loved. But as it grew in popularity it was clear that they could use it as a bridge (no pun intended) into other avenues and they've been very successful in that regard and I have nothing but admiration for these guys' achievements. But it's clear that it's no longer about the project, it's about the business and that makes me sad.

To clarify, there is nothing wrong with what TFS is deciding to do. TFS has mouths to feed and their priority is making sure their business is healthy and sees growth. I won't keep watching but I wish these guys nothing but the best I hope their new projects and formats open up even more avenues for them to find sucess!


Also, what is that song that plays as Baby Trunks lullaby toy? I recognize it but I can't quite place it.

[Scsigs]

On Reddit Kaiser cleared it up: They ARE NOT gonna use anime footage anymore and season 4 will be some form of the Dragonshortz format. I for one and EXTREMELY disappointed but sympathetic. I had a conversation about Abridged series with Martin (Littlekuriboh) and how the original format he pioneered is pretty much dead with him and TFS being the only ones really doing it anymore. He mentioned something along the lines of "Abridging is definitely in a slump rn, but not dead. Someone is going to figure out a new format and that will be the future of abridged series, we just have to wait and see who pioneers it". I can definitely agree that there is a new format that needs to be created for Abridged series if they want to survive, but the DragonshortZ ain't it chief. It really breaks my heart since LK is also going to finish up YGO Abridged pretty soon and if TFS really goes through with their new plans then Abridged series were born and died with Little Kuriboh. Ironic, but fitting...

"Pretty soon." Dude's been in & out of the hospital for the last half a year or so because of health issues, which delayed his promised start of "2019" like he promised. On top of that, with his track record, Shit's gonna take like 4-5 years to do ''at least''. Then there's Darkside of Dimensions if he's planning on doing anything with it after. We've got a long while before Martin's done.
As for a person who's gonna pioneer it. I don't know. He & TFS are literally the only abridgers who still get traction & have been doing their respective shows for over a decade now. Hell, Martin started in 2006 & TFS started in 2008. I don't think anyone ever thought they'd go this long. Many have tried, but they usually hang it up after a few years at best. I'm still waiting on that last episode of Yugioh GX abridged by Shadyvox & xthedarkone to come out & it's been like 2-3 years. That one's intended to be the series finale too. If someone's gonna come along & pioneer it, they'd better & soon.

I can't help but wonder, are they not using DB footage anymore because they don't find it creatively fulfilling or because it's not practical from a business standpoint due to Youtube's copyright system and other factors?

It's not because they don't find it fulfilling, but Kaiser heavily implied, if not outright stated, in their recent Q&A that it was because of copyright claims. They constantly have claims by Toei, music rights holders, & maybe some others that they have to fight. They skirt the line between copyright infringement & fair use, to the point where VegettoEX said to me in this thread that I didn't understand copyright laws when people were discussing it a year or so ago when I said the exact same thing for the reasons being that they make no money directly from it & that it's clearly a parody, but they use Toei's footage edited to fit their new dialogue & sometimes throw in additions or alterations to it. They're not the licensors of the anime & the only reason that I think Toei hasn't sent them a cease & desist is because the people at FUNimation appreciate them so much (hell, the people at 4Kids even appreciate LittleKuriboh too). Gotta remember that the American companies don't mind these groups that do these projects, it's the Japanese companies that have problems due to differences in copyright laws over there. Hell, the only time TFS did get a cease & desist was for Attack on Titan Abridged & that was because FUNi had only just licensed it at the time since that show was brand new. It's a very shaky subject.
If they have new animation that recreates the original shots pretty well, then it's more points in their favor for parody. Like, if you see Robot Chicken or SNL recreate a scene from a movie or do a skit set in a certain property's universe, but it's obviously a satire on the original work, it's clearly transformative because it's a critique of the original work or a pastiche. Reanimators on YouTube do this all the time where they don't get in trouble because it falls clearly under fair use. Not only that, but I assume it's less of a headache for them to fit the animation they have to work with around the dialogue rather than the other way around like they've been doing for the last 11 years. If it's entirely new, then they have more leeway & creative freedom for their jokes. Considering the Majin Buu arc is more comedic in nature, to a very jarring extent when it clashes with the overall more serious tone of Z, I think this makes sense. It's a way to offer valid critique of the arc & why it's so divisive, especially since people have been re-evaluating it in the last few years. Plus it saves Kaiser many sleepless nights of editing since they're paying someone else to do the animation. It's a win-win, though I'll miss the original animation as well.

It's most likely the latter and if that's the case (this is going to make me sound like a pretentious prick) I can't respect the decision. TFS doesn't owe us anything, but now that they've become a "business," their priorities have clearly changed (and understandably so). I hate to use the term "sellout" but I mean: they are literally changing the format of their art because not doing so wouldn't help them advance financially as a brand. The ultimate goal is to move away from DBZA, Kaiser has always made that clear. This is just a step closer to that endgame. DBZA started off as fanmade parody designed as a love letter to the series we all loved. But as it grew in popularity it was clear that they could use it as a bridge (no pun intended) into other avenues and they've been very successful in that regard and I have nothing but admiration for these guys' achievements. But it's clear that it's no longer about the project, it's about the business and that makes me sad.

Bro, "sellout" is a term I would not use to describe these guys. Selling out would entail them changing how they go about things on some fundamental level to reach new levels of success with wider audiences. Fall Out Boy are sellouts. Maroon 5 are sellouts. These guys? Nope. The writing has not only been consistently good since around episode 10 of the first season, it's actually gotten better as they've went along. They got Little Kuriboh to just stop making a lot of random references for the sake of it in Yugioh Abridged & actually improve his writing quality when his season 3 came along.
However, those improvements have come at a price. Some people view DBZA as the definitive version of Z, even though TFS has said it's not this. But, you can see what they mean. They're more faithful to the Japanese version of the series while also going hardcore on the comedy. Episode 60 being their crowning achievement with one of the parts ending with a cover of the song from the original version of Gohan's SS2 transformation that FUNi has STILL yet to rectify on their home releases. All of these & more could cause them to maybe get into some hot water with Toei in the future. Now they have a company, loyal fans, & other things in the works thanks to it. I don't know if Toei would have a case against them, but you can't say it didn't come from DBZA's success. It's kinda like a really good cover band eventually breaking into the regular music scene & carrying their success all the way with them but their longest fans still remember the amazing covers they did at the beginning. The changes are necessary to continue moving forward & streamline their production time on episodes. There's a clear difference to selling out & adapting your already established style to meet later sensibilities.

To clarify, there is nothing wrong with what TFS is deciding to do. TFS has mouths to feed and their priority is making sure their business is healthy and sees growth. I won't keep watching but I wish these guys nothing but the best I hope their new projects and formats open up even more avenues for them to find success!

Also, what is that song that plays as Baby Trunks lullaby toy? I recognize it but I can't quite place it.

You seem to have a problem with it, though. You said you get it, but are extremely disappointed & won't be watching anymore. That's pretty telling that you aren't cool with it going forward. Change is hard to live with sometimes, I can agree, but you're judging them for the wrong reasons. They could've just ended the series after the last season ended, but they decided to perceiver & that deserves some respect. They aren't going anywhere, they aren't selling out, & they don't care about the vocal minority who hate them for the smallest changes. Hell, there are people who hate that they make some parts of the series more serious than comedic, even though you need serious parts in a comedy to balance out the humor every so often as other shows & movies have shown us. The show's never been a complete farce, so I don't get where those people are coming from. For obvious reasons, those people hate season 3 while the rest of us appreciate it for the improved writing.
What I'm getting at here is that your wishing them the best feels half-hearted at best. They haven't changed minus some sensibilities (Kaiser & Lani's hatred of how they used the word "retarded" as a synonym for "stupid" being an example), but those have only come with age, so it's not anything to worry about. Wait till season 4 officially hits next year, try it out, then see how ya feel. These shorts are literally all just bridging gaps int heir version of the series. I think they're owed that much from longtime fans.

[Brikikoz]

I'm just waiting for the audio-improved remasters of season 1 so I can introduce new fans to DBZA without the empty periods of dead silence that came up a lot back then.

[Scsigs]

I'm just waiting for the audio-improved remasters of season 1 so I can introduce new fans to DBZA without the empty periods of dead silence that came up a lot back then.

You'll be waiting forever, since they don't have any plans to do that no matter how much they might want to.

[coola]

I'm just waiting for the audio-improved remasters of season 1 so I can introduce new fans to DBZA without the empty periods of dead silence that came up a lot back then.

You'll be waiting forever, since they don't have any plans to do that no matter how much they might want to.

Plus, it show how they evolved Too think its been so long they ve been using Orange Bricks footage at Saiyan Saga

I have small question, sorry if it was answered already on Q&A, but..does that mean we wont get more movies? I know they decided to skip Bojack, but what about DBZ Movie 10 - 13 and Other World Tournament? I think Kaiser mentioned sometime ago, that with original DB, they plan to do it via movie formats.

[WittyUsername]

Not gonna lie, it kind of sounds like TFS is starting to go through a similar phase to what James Rolfe/AVGN has been in for the past couple of years. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with them changing their approach. As others have said, abridging is pretty much dead, and they’ll at least be able to (hopefully) avoid getting anymore copyright strikes from Toei this way. Still, I’m not so sure this new approach is going to go over especially well with a lot of fans.