Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Block88 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:47 am

I’m curious? There’s hasn’t been a guidebook for Super which makes me wonder... why haven’t they made one for the show?

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Rakurai » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:27 am

As much as I like guidebooks, I don't think they're as popular anymore for anime shows. Daizenshuu & GT Perfect Files are still pretty much the Holy Grail of most that there should be to know about DB in general.

They could have an updated, general DB guidebook tho, which could include the DBS anime.
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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:35 am

I think it is merely a case of Shueisha not having enough material to release one or it is felt like they missed their marketing window for it and will wait a while longer.
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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by anubisj » Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:01 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:27 am
As much as I like guidebooks, I don't think they're as popular anymore for anime shows. Daizenshuu & GT Perfect Files are still pretty much the Holy Grail of most that there should be to know about DB in general.

They could have an updated, general DB guidebook tho, which could include the DBS anime.
I'm curious, why didn´t you include the chozenshuu as part of the holy grail? Do they omit important things from the daizenshuu?

I have them and since I'm an anime fan primarily, I'm loving them (they include everything, like Garlic jr saga etc) and seem very complete.

I would need the translated gt perfect files though, because the Chozenshuu doesn´t cover GT enough, in my opinion.

In any case, I'm guessing the daizenshuus have more behind-the-scenes content?

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Rakurai » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:53 pm

anubisj wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:01 pm
Rakurai wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:27 am
As much as I like guidebooks, I don't think they're as popular anymore for anime shows. Daizenshuu & GT Perfect Files are still pretty much the Holy Grail of most that there should be to know about DB in general.

They could have an updated, general DB guidebook tho, which could include the DBS anime.
I'm curious, why didn´t you include the chozenshuu as part of the holy grail? Do they omit important things from the daizenshuu?

I have them and since I'm an anime fan primarily, I'm loving them (they include everything, like Garlic jr saga etc) and seem very complete.

I would need the translated gt perfect files though, because the Chozenshuu doesn´t cover GT enough, in my opinion.

In any case, I'm guessing the daizenshuus have more behind-the-scenes content?
Chozenshuus are essentially the Daizenshuus, tho I guess they do cover more updated stuff like BoG. Not sure if they omit things from the Daizenshuu tho, which is why I'm hesitant to say anything more.

GT Perfect Files cover GT sufficiently enough, it was a shorter series to begin with.
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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Rakurai » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:03 am

I would like to say, Chozenshuus are probably just as good if not better than the Daizenshuus, since they're more up-to-date. But much like the original manga, the Daizenshuu was originally published and released shortly after it and the TV anime, so that's why I say they are the 'Holy Grail' guides along with GT Perfect Files, which was also released concurrently with GT. They are everything you need to know up until those points, and what there needs to be known for the DB series in general.

The Super manga/anime are the sequels but much like the difference between DB & DBZ, it is like its own series.
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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:08 am

Block88 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:47 am
I’m curious? There’s hasn’t been a guidebook for Super which makes me wonder... why haven’t they made one for the show?
Why do we need guidebooks?!

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Block88 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:28 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:08 am
Block88 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:47 am
I’m curious? There’s hasn’t been a guidebook for Super which makes me wonder... why haven’t they made one for the show?
Why do we need guidebooks?!
To clarify stuff fans been wondering about in the show.

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Grimlock » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:37 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:08 am
Why do we need guidebooks?!
Why do we need information?

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Mister_Popo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:01 pm

If the Guidebook would include reference power levels or multipliers for Super ... maybe they are still busy figuring out what makes the best sense.

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:57 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:01 pm
If the Guidebook would include reference power levels or multipliers for Super ... maybe they are still busy figuring out what makes the best sense.
This is not the kind of thing that has ever been a significant focus of any guide book and would be inconsequential/irrelevant in terms of holding up or delaying the production of one.
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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Mister_Popo » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:56 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:57 pm
Mister_Popo wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:01 pm
If the Guidebook would include reference power levels or multipliers for Super ... maybe they are still busy figuring out what makes the best sense.
This is not the kind of thing that has ever been a significant focus of any guide book and would be inconsequential/irrelevant in terms of holding up or delaying the production of one.

I do not own the Daizenshuu, but didn't they include a power level-guide as well?
I guess you could make a DBS-guide without power levels, yes.
But even then, DBS anime does have its chair of inconsistencies and unexplained or only partially explained events. I don't want to be overly negative here, but it is what it is. It doesn't make the job any easier.
But, yes, i guess a guidebook brings in even more money. DBS ain't over yet. They could still be making one in the (near) future.

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:27 am

Block88 wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:28 am
To clarify stuff fans been wondering about in the show.
Grimlock wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:37 am
Why do we need information?
What stuff are you talking about that needs clarification?!

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Grimlock » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:52 am

̶W̶h̶y̶ ̶D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶ ̶B̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶b̶a̶d̶?̶

• Details on Gods of Destruction, angels and Zeno.
• Details on Zarama and the Super Dragon Balls.
• An updated and corrected version of the AGES.
• Explaination why Zamasu didn't become a Makaio.
• Details about the past of the Saiyans (in pages dedicated to the Dragon Ball Super: Broly movie section).
• Details on Super Saiyan Rage.
• Details on Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution.

The guidebooks never gave in-depth information, especially about stuff that happened forever ago, but it would also be good if they at least talked just a bit about how the Multiverse came to be. Of course, all this is information that should have appeared in the series, but since it wasn't, that's where/what the guidebooks enter/are for, providing extra information.

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Mister_Popo » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:07 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:52 am
̶W̶h̶y̶ ̶D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶ ̶B̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶S̶u̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶b̶a̶d̶?̶

• Details on Gods of Destruction, angels and Zeno.
• Details on Zarama and the Super Dragon Balls.
• An updated and corrected version of the AGES.
• Explaination why Zamasu didn't become a Makaio.
• Details about the past of the Saiyans (in pages dedicated to the Dragon Ball Super: Broly movie section).
• Details on Super Saiyan Rage.
• Details on Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution.

The guidebooks never gave in-depth information, especially about stuff that happened forever ago, but it would also be good if they at least talked just a bit about how the Multiverse came to be. Of course, all this is information that should have appeared in the series, but since it wasn't, that's where/what the guidebooks enter/are for, providing extra information.

I agree that some of the stuff concerning the existing storyline could be more explained in detail.
A Guidebook may be the chance to do so.
Things like SSJ Rage fe. Chances are rather few we'll get an exact explaination for that when Super further continues.
Information on the ages, Zamasu could also be added in a Guidebook.

But i would prefer substantial new anchor points like Zalama or the exact mechanism of the divine hierarchy first to be explained in the story itself (manga, anime ...). Later on maybe some more depth / layer could be added in the Guidebook if needed.

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by SSJgogeto » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:36 pm

I don't know if they will give us details about the transformations. I mean, even before these we have Grade 2, Grade 3 and SS3, and as far as I know the Daizenshuu doesn't give much information in that regard.

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:51 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:52 am
• Explaination why Zamasu didn't become a Makaio.
We already know why. Makaioshins are Kais born without a pure heart and immediately exiled, Zamasu always had a pure heart and only succumbed to his darker desires a long time after his birth.
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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Grimlock » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:25 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:07 pm
Things like SSJ Rage fe. Chances are rather few we'll get an exact explaination for that when Super further continues.
Which is why there should be a guidebook.
Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:07 pm
Information on the ages, Zamasu could also be added in a Guidebook.
Should. It's a little annoying to see some mistakes (like that "41 years ago" in Dragon Ball Super: Broly). They should fix it and revise other things to fit with new material (such as the change of the destruction of planet Vegeta, from AGE 737 to AGE 739).
Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:07 pm
But i would prefer substantial new anchor points like Zalama or the exact mechanism of the divine hierarchy first to be explained in the story itself (manga, anime ...). Later on maybe some more depth / layer could be added in the Guidebook if needed.
Yeah like I said, all that should've been tacked by the series but if that's not their intention, all we'd have left would be the guidebooks.
SSJgogeto wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:36 pm
I don't know if they will give us details about the transformations. I mean, even before these we have Grade 2, Grade 3 and SS3, and as far as I know the Daizenshuu doesn't give much information in that regard.
It gave us the multiplier for the Super Saiyan 3 at least. Anything would be useful as of right now we don't know anything.
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:51 pm
We already know why. Makaioshins are Kais born without a pure heart and immediately exiled, Zamasu always had a pure heart and only succumbed to his darker desires a long time after his birth.
Exactly. And do you think that is a common knowledge?

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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:30 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:25 pm
Exactly. And do you think that is a common knowledge?
It should be common knowledge that Zamasu had purity of heart since it's stated in the show. If people don't know that Makaioshins are born with a corrupted heart then I doubt they even know what a Makaioshin is in the first place, since that's literally what distinguishes them from the Kais.
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Re: Why don’t we have a Guidebook so far for the show

Post by Kepiaschkz » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:39 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:08 am
Block88 wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:47 am
I’m curious? There’s hasn’t been a guidebook for Super which makes me wonder... why haven’t they made one for the show?
Why do we need guidebooks?!


There are quite some stuff I would like to be explained in guidebooks dedicated to Super :

1 - a god hierarchy chart more consistent with the story itself.
For exemple, in the original manga we were said there used to be 4 cardinal Kaïoshins and 1 Daï Kaïoshins per universes. Now, because Buu's rampage , there are only two ( Shin with an assistant/apprentice Kibito) plus an "unofficial" one, the elder (because Beerus, Z-word and all that kinds of things).
But now in Super, we're introduced with the multiverse where there are, apparently, two Kaïoshins per universe as well. A titular and an apprentice. We have the universes 6 and 10 as exemples. And never the words "Daï Kaioshin" are mentionned anymore.
Because a Kaïoshins genocide per universe leaving 2 gods alive each time would be too coincidental, we're lead to believe it became the official norm.
To make matter worse, in a Z guidebook Toriyama confused things further indicating there are 3 Kaïoshin, two on duty and one in rest.

And as other mentionned, where the hell Zalama stand in the cosmos hierarchy.

2- how the alterlife works :
In the story and guidebooks, we were told that the hell and the Enma palace were unique in the whole universe. However Freeza mentions in RoF that the place where he was tortured was only the "Earth hell". Implicitly saying that there are multiple hells, one per worlds. The same stuff is implied about the checkstation where Enma suggested Goku to get rid of Freeza outside earth so that he would not have to deal with him himself. It was animé only tough. All this stuff contradict the snowglobe-like model of the DB universe. Where there are one single checkstation in the center of the universe and one single hell on the whole disk surface separating the alterlife from the living world.

3- Speaking of the snowglobe universe. It deserve to be updated with new locations introduced with Super : the Hakaishin Kai locations and the multiples hells. Also a more detailed look on the later since trying to picture them give me a headache with that strange meadow being somewhat underwater ( wtf???)

We also need to see a similar geographical design for the whole multiverse including the Zeno palace, the angel worlds, the world of void, Kaishin and he Kanju tree where the gods are born.

Is each universe disposed in circle with on the center, an universe "0" containing Zeno palace ? Is the Zeno palace in an other dimension itself? Is this place containing worlds filled with life ( we can see multiple stars and galaxies in the background )?
What are under the surface of the afterlife-like clouds that are beneath the jellyfish planet ?


4- What are the multiplier of each new form : SSG, "beyond god base", SSB, anime-only SSB évolution and SSJRage, SSB mastered and UI ?

5- As mentionned before, a more detailed look on Saiyan past. The history of SSGod, Yamoshi, the civil war on Sadala.

6- More information on Freeza's "clan".

7- Updated timeline with Super events. In what age takes place each arc.

8- What has been destroyed in Trunks world exactly ? Is the Grand Priest still alive there ? His present self didn't seem bothered in the slightest by the events that occurred there.

9- Is the Hakaishin existence linked to only one Kaioshin or to each of them living in the universe?

10- Is there someone standing above Zeno? Who rules for exemple on multiple sets of multiverse or else on all timelines?

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