What if SS4 returned?

[OmegaKing]

So we’ve already met the strongest warriors of every universe. What if it turns out there are infinite versions of each universe because of time travel and in one version of universe 7 the events of GT take place instead, and there is a tournament held pitting warriors from different what-if timelines against each other. So Goku has a battle with his GT self, SSB vs SS4. Afterward, they teach each other the techniques the other doesn’t know and now they can both use a combination of SS4 and SSG, kinda resembling SS4 Gogeta. And it turns out SS4 Gogeta had red hair because he unknowingly tapped into the SSG power during the fusion.

I know I’d be stealing plotlines from
Dragon Ball Multiverse with this idea, but they are good interesting ideas that make sense especially with Super’s focus on multi-verses. We could have the Super Buu who absorbed all warriors in the universe, a Perfect Cell who defeated Gohan and continued to train afterward, perhaps using his Freeza cells to obtain further transformations, a Fused Zamasu who didn’t get yeeted, perhaps movie characters brought into canon like Janemba...

Akira loves time travel and this would just be super dope and would make fans of GT very happy imo.

[Polyphase Avatron]

We know that there are a limited amount of timelines because of the time rings.

But if you really want something like this, SDBH can provide.

[Surai]

If SSJ4 appears in the canon material, I think it will be a very different version from what we had in GT.

[Hulk10]

I like the original version best.

[Kataphrut]

I mean, it sort of has with Broly. His thing is pretty clearly a reference to it.

I wouldn't want the GT version to come back for Goku and vegeta though. Aside from not caring for that design, we're already so far down the path of divine ki/spirit energy/Ultra Instinct that it would be a weird reversal.

[SSJgogeto]

Right now Broly is the closest thing from SS4 that we have.

With that said, I don't really like the design, so if we have SS4 in the canon I prefer something like this:

Spoiler:

No fur, no kabuki eyes, yellow hair, and no magic clothes.

[Robo4900]

I'd prefer Dragon Ball to go in new directions rather than rely on nostalgia for old designs, and continue its over-reliance on new transformations.

But sure, it could work. Maybe Goku realises that to tap into his full strength, he can't rely on God ki that was given to him, he has to find a primal power within himself, like Broly's.

But honestly, I'm really sick of Super solving every problem with a new transformation... The original run did this in the first arc, as well as the Namek, Cell, and Baby arcs. Super has, so far, done it every single time except for the still-ongoing Moro arc, which could still go any way (it's probably only past its middle in the past couple of chapters, so who knows where it's gonna end up). My money's on a new transformation happening there too.

[Dbzk1999]

I'd prefer Dragon Ball to go in new directions rather than rely on nostalgia for old designs, and continue its over-reliance on new transformations.

But sure, it could work. Maybe Goku realises that to tap into his full strength, he can't rely on God ki that was given to him, he has to find a primal power within himself, like Broly's.

But honestly, I'm really sick of Super solving every problem with a new transformation... The original run did this in the first arc, as well as the Namek, Cell, and Baby arcs. Super has, so far, done it every single time except for the still-ongoing Moro arc, which could still go any way (it's probably only past its middle in the past couple of chapters, so who knows where it's gonna end up). My money's on a new transformation happening there too.

Eh? I wouldn’t say Super did that every single time.

• Universe 6 arc has Goku ultimately lose to Hit, and the problem being solved via Hit being sympathetic from the fight and practically throwing the last one.

• Future Trunks arc has Future Zeno wiping everything

• ToP has Goku, Freeza, and 17 working together to take out Jiren.

Idk, just feel like it’s different to say it’s introduced a lot of transformations vs saying that said transformations have solved every problem

[Cursed Lemon]

The problem is that it needs to be saiyans with tails. So right off the bat, it ceases to become an interesting way to make certain side characters relevant without just copying what Goku and Vegeta have done - it'd be cool as shit to see Gohan or Future Trunks utilize SSJ4 instead of trying to go god.

[Robo4900]

Idk, just feel like it’s different to say it’s introduced a lot of transformations vs saying that said transformations have solved every problem

Perhaps my phrasing was poor, what I meant was that the solution the protagonists use against each and every problem is a new transformation, whether it's ultimately successful or not.

Arguably, the fact the transformations tend to ultimately prove useless most of the time just makes this problem even worse; not only are they introducing a new transformation in every arc (in fact, more than one; there were two flavours of UI, and the TOP also introduced the Broly form through Kale, and the Black arc also introduced "Super Saiyan Rosé"), and not only are they bringing back fan-favourite stuff like Vegetto and the Mafuba wave, but they're ultimately cheapening all of these things by having them ultimately just... Not matter in the slightest.

Red form is neat, and it's somewhat subversive and cool that Goku gains all this new power but ultimately he runs out of juice and the thing that wins the day is Beerus deciding to spare earth... That instance, on its own, with the idea that Battle Of Gods was a standalone midquel story for Dragon Ball, is fine...
ResF introduces Blue form, and its only reason to be there is because they wanted Goku and Vegeta to have a new transformation. This story didn't need further transformations, not in the slighest. Really stupid.
U6 introduces Blue Kaioken, and... Well, it's a kinda neat fanservice moment, but ultimately serves no purpose beyond that. It's stupid, but it's tolerable...
Black introduces the Blue Rage form out of no where, it's kind of built up to, but not enough for it to feel earned or set up, and it doesn't make sense, and ultimately it's just one of about four different insubstantial, shitty endings that the Black arc tries in that one episode where it can't decide how it wants to end.
TOP introduces Ultra Instinct, and it's just dumb and doesn't matter.

The problem isn't that transformations are bad -- for better or for worse, transformations are a part of Dragon Ball, and have been since the very beginning. The problem is over-reliance on transformations as a stock plot beat. It cheapens the entire idea, it feels unearned most of the time, and it just feels tired and stupid. "oh yeah, goku and vegeta got new transformations... yayyyyyyyyy... which colour does their hair go this time?"

[Hulk10]

The problem is that it needs to be saiyans with tails. So right off the bat, it ceases to become an interesting way to make certain side characters relevant without just copying what Goku and Vegeta have done - it'd be cool as shit to see Gohan or Future Trunks utilize SSJ4 instead of trying to go god.

I concur.

[emperior]

I think Broly’s rage form is enough to count as a SS4.
It would be nice if Goku and Vegeta learned how to tap into that power and control it to get 10 times stronger.

[sunsetshimmer]

Broly's form is nothing more but Oozaru power in normal state. It's even weaker than regular SSJ, let alone SSJ4, so i wouldn't count it as any form of SSJ4 retcon. Both forms are built around Oozaru concept and that's the only thing they have in common.

[Polyphase Avatron]

SSJB, Rose, Rage, etc. are all unnecessary. But I love Ultra Instinct to death.