Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 1 - DB Episodes 1-5

[Dr. Casey]

Goku vs. the wolves is great. Well-directed, good atmospheric nighttime setting, and it's of course neat to start the series off with something as relatively grounded and down-to-earth as a fight against a bunch of wolves, given what Dragon Ball would evolve into.

And of course, here in episode 2, that sort of fight was meant to be genuinely tense and exciting. One thing that gives the original Dragon Ball a slightly different feeling from the Z portion of the series is that it's (very loosely and relatively speaking) somewhat grounded, with the 'real world' something that's still relevant. Whenever Piccolo Daimao slaughters the king's armies, the audience is expected to be shocked and surprised right alongside the characters themselves; but whenever Cell, or a movie villain, or even villains as early as Nappa and Vegeta are assaulted by tanks or fighter jets, you're not surprised at all whenever the attacks are harmless but instead think "haha, silly military, they think their weapons will actually do something."

Likewise, if wolves attacked any of the main characters later on down the road, the audience wouldn't be expected to feel any sort of tension. It would just be a given that they're as harmless as gnats. This sort of fight and sequence is something that only could have taken place at the very beginning of the series (the cutoff point wouldn't be literally episode two, but probably nothing beyond the first story arc).

[KBABZ]

What did you find distracting about them?

As I mentioned earlier, I find that all too often they don't have a very important bearing on the story at hand and never get to alter the actual direction of the story until the end because they were written to do so, and it often lasts for whole entire scenes. It's kinda similar to the Fake Namek arc where it's ultimately all for nothing and they have to try again on the REAL Namek where the story actually happens. Them ransacking Roshi's house for example has no consequences or influence on the main story. And I guess just knowing it's filler is always in the back of my mind too, but that's very specific to me.

The only time it DOES work for me is in the double decker camper episode, because it's interwoven so cleverly and actually results in blowing up Yamcha's car at the end.

*Shouldn’t Goku be in a lot more pain from Bulma trying to pull his tail off? He seemed more irritated at worse

Personally I always reasoned that what made it the weakness was grabbing or squeezing the tail, not necessarily pulling on it. We can see in Grandpa Gohan V Goku that his tail is actually quick slack (until he get's slapped around like Loki) and yet he still loses all of his energy.

Goku vs. the wolves is great. Well-directed, good atmospheric nighttime setting, and it's of course neat to start the series off with something as relatively grounded and down-to-earth as a fight against a bunch of wolves, given what Dragon Ball would evolve into.

Agreed. I feel what's been lost with the god-tier levels of power is that you can't fight against "the locals" in a relatable way and the environment becomes less important. Maybe I'm too fixated on the specific settings, but DB is my favourite over Z because (alongside other reasons) you just spend more time sitting in the world and seeing what's out there, which fits that "warrior walking the world" thing that Kunzait talks about. It isn't Mandalorian levels of "watching the main character walk silently for five minutes" of course, but it's much more so than in Z, who only really did this for Namek, and that's basically just an anonymous battlefield with not much more going for it than the World of the Kais, really.

[Soppa Saia People]

One thing that gives the original Dragon Ball a slightly different feeling from the Z portion of the series is that it's (very loosely and relatively speaking) somewhat grounded, with the 'real world' something that's still relevant.

yeah maybe this is getting ahead of ourselves, but this has one been one thing that i'm so sad that the later stuff in the series lost. the story just becomes so disconnect from everything else till like the boo saga, it's really disappointing because i think the first couple arcs have such a fun and exciting world, the first two budokai especially show that off.

anyway as for the episode, i really love the vibe of the whole thing, the stuff with goku and bulma just hanging out in that very 80s house i've always really enjoyed, some really good comedy moments and facial expressions during it, and it's just cool to see the characters like, relax, you know ? the wolf stuff is also pretty good, like everyone's saying, it's so cool that they made a little short story off of a 1 off joke in the manga that adds a lot to the episode. really like how it's a action scene that takes place at night too, there's very little of that in dragon ball outside of movies. also, i hate fart jokes and that kinda stuff but the scene with pilaf and shuu has always killed me, pilaf running across the whole room to press the button is so funny to me lol. i remember seeing this episode for the first time when i was like 10 and being completely shocked at the no balls moment, like i couldn't believe that it was so raunchy, lmao.

re : goku's age, i've always assumed that it was because toriyama decided that he was gonna keep the series going around that point and wanted to keep goku slightly more believable as a kid for longer ? its never really bothered me though.

[ABED]

As I mentioned earlier, I find that all too often they don't have a very important bearing on the story at hand and never get to alter the actual direction of the story until the end because they were written to do so, and it often lasts for whole entire scenes. It's kinda similar to the Fake Namek arc where it's ultimately all for nothing and they have to try again on the REAL Namek where the story actually happens. Them ransacking Roshi's house for example has no consequences or influence on the main story. And I guess just knowing it's filler is always in the back of my mind too, but that's very specific to me.

I find this to be such an odd issue you'd have, especially in light of this part of the manga being a parody. They're looking for the DB's, and seeing as how everyone is searching for the DB's, their scenes are very much on plot. If it's entertaining, it works, and doesn't need to be on the main plot. The problem with Fake Namek is simply that it's boring even on its own terms. As filler goes, I do like the idea of the DB gang's journey to Namek not being easy. The idea of Fake Namek is actually a clever idea BECAUSE it was all for nothing. It's kind of a clever reversal, at least on paper. They're traveling across the universe and you're telling me they would have it easy? Pilaf gang's antics are sometimes not "on story" but they are fun being around.

pilaf running across the whole room to press the button is so funny to me lol.

I forgot about that, but those little moments of cleverness make me smile.

[KBABZ]

I find this to be such an odd issue you'd have, especially in light of this part of the manga being a parody. They're looking for the DB's, and seeing as how everyone is searching for the DB's, their scenes are very much on plot. If it's entertaining, it works, and doesn't need to be on the main plot. The problem with Fake Namek is simply that it's boring even on its own terms. As filler goes, I do like the idea of the DB gang's journey to Namek not being easy. The idea of Fake Namek is actually a clever idea BECAUSE it was all for nothing. It's kind of a clever reversal, at least on paper. They're traveling across the universe and you're telling me they would have it easy? Pilaf gang's antics are sometimes not "on story" but they are fun being around.

It is an odd issue! Not helping matters is that I almost always find the Goku side of these episodes to be much more compelling than the Pilaf side. I think the Journey to Namek filler is enhanced by things like the orphan ship that, as I believe you've mentioned before, fleshes out Frieza and his empire a bit.

I will say though, it was pretty ballsy of the anime to commit multiple episodes to Fake Namek to half-convince the audience, rather than being a one episode excursion.

[ABED]

I find this to be such an odd issue you'd have, especially in light of this part of the manga being a parody. They're looking for the DB's, and seeing as how everyone is searching for the DB's, their scenes are very much on plot. If it's entertaining, it works, and doesn't need to be on the main plot. The problem with Fake Namek is simply that it's boring even on its own terms. As filler goes, I do like the idea of the DB gang's journey to Namek not being easy. The idea of Fake Namek is actually a clever idea BECAUSE it was all for nothing. It's kind of a clever reversal, at least on paper. They're traveling across the universe and you're telling me they would have it easy? Pilaf gang's antics are sometimes not "on story" but they are fun being around.

It is an odd issue! Not helping matters is that I almost always find the Goku side of these episodes to be much more compelling than the Pilaf side. I think the Journey to Namek filler is enhanced by things like the orphan ship that, as I believe you've mentioned before, fleshes out Frieza and his empire a bit.

I will say though, it was pretty ballsy of the anime to commit multiple episodes to Fake Namek to half-convince the audience, rather than being a one episode excursion.

I know we are getting ahead of ourselves but if it was only one episode, would it have convinced anyone that they weren't in fact on the real Namek?

I don't know why you said "it is an odd issue" and then still disagree. It's odd that anyone would have an issue with a seeming narrative digression in a parody when the point of a parody isn't to tell an incredibly taut and propulsive story. The point of Pilaf isn't to be a compelling character, it's simply to provide laughs and sometimes an obstacle for the heroes. I'm simply not sure what you want out of this part of the story. It's a different type of story and comes with different rules and expectations.

[KBABZ]

I know we are getting ahead of ourselves but if it was only one episode, would it have convinced anyone that they weren't in fact on the real Namek?

I dunno. This would start to broach into whether the audience is aware that it's filler or not in my opinion. Certainly anyone paying even the vaguest attention to the manga during the Japanese airing would know that it was fake, which immediately destroys any tension about it. Similarly with the Pilaf stuff, for me just knowing that it's filler means I just care less about it for some reason (probably because 90% of the time it won't make a meaningful contribution to the story).

But if you aren't aware that it's filler (as I'm sure the majority of the US audience was at the time), DOES it work? I dunno. I remember when I first saw it something seemed suspiciously easy about it, so I wasn't surprised at all when it was revealed that Fake Namek was fake, in a dissatisfied sort of way (an opinion shared by my sister who was watching at the time as well). I ask myself this question regarding the early Pilaf stuff too, but I learn that the consensus is that it DOES work is larger and larger the more I ask about it.

I don't know why you said "it is an odd issue" and then still disagree. It's odd that anyone would have an issue with a seeming narrative digression in a parody when the point of a parody isn't to tell an incredibly taut and propulsive story. The point of Pilaf isn't to be a compelling character, it's simply to provide laughs and sometimes an obstacle for the heroes. I'm simply not sure what you want out of this part of the story. It's a different type of story and comes with different rules and expectations.

I'm not able to articulate how I feel about it very well, but I guess I can say it's because what appeals to me most about the original show is seeing Goku interact with and explore the world at large as he leaves his home of Mount Paozu and makes new friends and matures along the way, rather than the original intent of being a Journey to the West parody. It has very goofy elements for sure but for me that's always been heavy dressing on top of the core salad for me. Which, again, is an odd issue, because as you say it's VERY obvious that it's a parody first and yet that's not how I experience the show when I watch it!

---

Going a bit off-topic, and I know I'm jumping ahead here, but one facet that I think is interesting and often overlooked is the fact that while Goku is skilled at fighting and has an interest in it, it really isn't until he trains with Roshi and, crucially, participates in the 21st TB that he really finds it to be his true PASSION. In these early episodes fighting isn't really Goku's modus operandi to the extent it'll be later on in the story.

[ABED]

Back in 97, I hadn't read the manga, so I did believe they were on Namek. Perhaps we should wait until the fake Namek episodes to talk more about it.

And I find your view of filler and story a tad dogmatic, though not uncommon, especially in an age of super serialized storytelling on TV. My views have changed a lot over the years, especially after having been exposed to so many stories of all different types and structures. Now pretty much my sole criterion for whether something "works" is if I enjoyed it. "Don't be boring" is ultimately the only true tenet of writing. While being filler, it's technically still on plot as they are always searching for the DB's. Being on story isn't what inherently makes something interesting, nor does being filler make something uninteresting. This part of the manga is a parody, so the point isn't about pushing the characters and their journeys forward as much as it is about having a laugh. If it's amusing, then it is meaningful, regardless if it's on plot.

Regarding your last point, he decides to go on the journey to explore the world and get stronger.

But if you aren't aware that it's filler (as I'm sure the majority of the US audience was at the time), DOES it work? I dunno.

Yes, if you find it interesting, then it works. Not everything on plot is interesting, and not all filler is boring. Hell, something can be on plot and still be filler.

[MasenkoHA]

“Kame Sennin’s Kinto Un” commentary

*How quaint that at this point Goku’s only special techniques are his compliant rod and rock paper scissors?


*RIP Kōhei Miyauchi the only good voice actor Roshi ever had in Japanese or English.

*Roshi ever being able to use the kinto un in the first place seems suspect

*Yeah I’m really not a fan of the Pilaf stuff. Outside of the run in with Son Goku in the woods last episode it’s all been the most boring part of these episodes

[Multi-Man]

I watched Episode 3 Today and Episode 2 yesterday. I freaking love Masako’s Kid Goku. She makes him sound so innocent and cute.

Episode 2’s wolf fight was also a fun part to watch. Also in Episode 3 I found it funny that there was a phoenix that could’ve given Goku eternal life, so he got the Kinto Un instead. Only thing else I can say really is that I was kinda uncomfortable with the... uh, “Bulma’s Bribe” scene, but that’s more of a personal thing. These episodes are honestly a blast so far, can’t wait to see how the story unfolds!!!

[Soppa Saia People]

wasn't able to watch yesterday because i had a mental health episode, anyway, episode 3. daisuke gori's umigame is like genuinely one of the funniest performances to me, i know it's the freaking sea turtle, he gets like 3 moments to shine in the whole series, but still, just like the delivery of it makes it one of my favorite gori roles (and there's a lot of them in the original anime lmao). of course on the subject of voice acting, kohei miyauchi absolutely makes kame'sennin as a character, he doesn't get to flex a lot of the best parts of his performance in this arc so it's probably best to save this for later, but yeah, amazing performance. rest in peace to both men.

as for this episode's content, it's a weird thing but i've always loved how the characters just chill at the beach during this part of the story, like it can't be stressed enough for me, i love how lowkey these first two arcs in comparison to the rest of the series. roshi's antics can certainly be....pretty uncomfortable for some people and i would be lying if i found like, a lot of it funny, and his character just doesn't do a lot for me in this arc. toriyama doesn't get a lot of credit for his character development, but i do think he deserves some for how he handled roshi in the next arc and made him one of the better characters. god also, i love kid goku flying around on kinto'un, it's one of the defining visuals of early dragon ball to me, and the goku flying on kinto'un theme is so good, just wish it was purple like it (well mostly) was in the manga XP. also pilaf pulling a knife on a crocodile is so hardcore lmao.

Shigeru Chiba has played Pilaf, Kuwabara, and Raditz. Talk about range.

he voices garlic jr in the anime too but not in the movie, and honestly even though his garlic jr performance is pretty weak, i kinda wish he voiced him in the movie so then he could've been the first dragon ball, dragon ball z, and dragon ball z movie villain. kinda pointless but would've been semi cool trivia lol.

[Robo4900]

This week's been a lot more busy than I thought it'd be. Anyway, episode 3, Kame-Sen'nin's Kinto Un...

Y'know, this is Goku's first real fight. He did fight the wolves, but that was just wildlife he was essentially hunting. And the dinosaur, he just hit with his stick, mostly it was just a chase.
Even though it's very one-sided, this fight with the tiger bandit was Goku's first real one-on-one fight.

And, oh yes, Tori-Bot's cameo!

He has a line, which the subs render as "Penguin Village, this is not!"
The dubs all cut this line. (At least, the ones we know about; maybe someday someone will uncover the Harmony Gold dub, or maybe the Animax dub and we'll find one of them kept the line)

I wonder who Pilaf's spy is, and how they found out Kame-Sen'nin has the ball.

Ignoring the song he's singing when he's approaching (which wasn't in the manga, for anyone interested), Kame-Sen'nin's first line is literally the English phrase "Hello! Good afternoon."
I think all the dubs -- and even the manga -- used a generic hello, but I'd argue a better equivalent would be something like "Aloha!"
Either way, I do enjoy this little tidbit about the Japanese version.

The immortal phoenix dying of food poisoning is hilarious.
Does also bring into question something later on; are immortal phoenixes a thing? And if so, could Piccolo Daimao and Freeza have used one? (And I guess Zamas)

The Pilaf gang stuff at Kame house honestly always made me laugh. Though the placement of Shu in the frame is a mistake I never noticed before, which will bother me forever.


Roshi found his Dragon Ball at the bottom of the ocean about a hundred years ago... So the last wish on the balls was at least a year longer ago than that.
I can't remember how long ago Piccolo was stated to have been around, but this could mean that he had the ball when Roshi was here.

Bulma can't ride the cloud at 16. That's fair; she's spoiled, vain, and quite mean.
I wonder if she could ride it later in life, though. Like, during the Cell or Boo storylines.

Re: Fake Namek:
I agree that the idea isn't too bad, it's just that those two episodes are not very good, and they're also kinda slow and plodding anyway. Probably could've done with being just one episode, and having more going on. Even if you believe this is real Namek, it feels like a really boring start to the Namek arc.

*Roshi ever being able to use the kinto un in the first place seems suspect

Agreed.
We do see his younger days in a filler arc later on, and given what we know from that, he's stil... Well, y'know.

Going a bit off-topic, and I know I'm jumping ahead here, but one facet that I think is interesting and often overlooked is the fact that while Goku is skilled at fighting and has an interest in it, it really isn't until he trains with Roshi and, crucially, participates in the 21st TB that he really finds it to be his true PASSION. In these early episodes fighting isn't really Goku's modus operandi to the extent it'll be later on in the story.

Yeah. I do like that progression. He discovers his passion when he trains under Roshi, and the more he learns about fighting, the more he wants to learn.

-

I was thinking of starting week 2 on Tuesday rather than Wednesday, and then moving it to Monday starting from week 3. That way, we're not weirdly starting a week midweek. Given we're all only on episode 3 here on Sunday, I'm thinking I'll probably just leave it where it is.

[Xell]

A pleasant surprise - this is how I would describe the first 5 episodes of Dragon Ball.

I have not watched the original series of Dragon Ball since I was in secondary school. Back in the days when I would frequent IRC channels and play Budokai 3 on PS2. An easier time. I am now 29 and working a full time job and paying the mortgage on my house.

I had always remembered Dragon Ball for being that show that didn't quite find its feet until 12 episodes in - however I have found these episodes a complete joy to watch and a breath of fresh air from the action oriented series it would become. One thing I never gave Dragon Ball credit for when I was younger was its sense of comedic timing and the way it would use its music or lack of music in scenes to add to the punchline.

Some moments which made me chuckle:

* Goku peeing in the water before fishing in episode 1 - this further highlights the point that he is going about his everyday life and this is normality to him. He goes at his own pace and lives in the moment.
* The curve ball of Goku jumping off the bike to save Bulma from the Pterodactyl - his look of confusion as he doesn't quite reach before pulling out the Nyoibou.
* Pilaf's hypocrisy at farting and proving he would be quite the dictator.

I find it interesting how Goku does not enjoy things like bread or coffee as he is more acquainted with a carnivorous lifestyle from living as a feral child.
He comes across as dim in some situations, however multiple times he points out how Oolong is selfish proving Goku can differentiate between right and wrong to some degree, despite only being bought up isolated from other humans. Grandpa Gohan really raised him well.

Overall I really enjoyed these 5 episodes and I cannot wait to watch the next 5. The panties jokes began to feel a little tedious but overall this has been fun.

[ABED]

I get why people are bored by fake Namek, but I'm genuinely baffled that anyone thinks you could do that sort of story any justice in a single episode.

I don't remember, but does the fish Goku kills in the first episode talk?

Pilaf struggling to open the door when Mai and Shu have already made inside is great gag.

[Robo4900]

I don't remember, but does the fish Goku kills in the first episode talk?

Yes. He has a single line of dialogue. Though none of the dubs include that line.
It's something like "Haha, I'm gonna eat you!!"

[MasenkoHA]

“Oolong the kidnapping monster” commentary

*Goku can sense the people in the village. Since he’s not suppose to have ki sensing abilities yet I assume he’s just smelling/hearing them.


*Interesting the father of little girl is never actually named. The dub just goes with Sherman Priest being written on his door and goes with it. The unnamed little girl also has no name in the Japanese version, the dub goes with Pocawatha because well she has a feather headband on and Disney’s Pocahontas just came out that year I guess.

*Oolong is loosely based on Zhu Bajie from Journey to the West in that he’s a pig person who wants to marry a village elder’s daughter. His ability to shapeshift, however, came from Sun Wukong/Son Goku. I wonder if Toriyama ever considered letting Goku be a shape shifter before giving it to Oolong.

*Again Bulma throws herself at a handsome dude that she knows is a shape shifting monster. Why does she need to wish for a boyfriend again?

*I don’t want to bash the dub too much on this thread (well we’ll see..) but I want to point out the changes in the dub episode were nonsensical and incoherent. For whatever reason the dub added this whole point of the village’s ancestors foreseeing Goku coming to liberate them from Oolong. But that makes absolutely no fucking sense if you think about it for half a second. Oolong isn’t some demon terrorizing this village for centuries he’s some perverted pig boy tricking the villagers for maybe a few months at most. Also at one point Sherman Priest tells Bulma that Oolong deceives you by turning into the thing you want most. But how in the flying pig shit would Oolong know that? Also we never saw him do that once and he only turned into a handsome suave gentleman to seduce what he thought was the little girl not to get Bulma.

*I feel like it was all longer than 5 minutes but oh well

*The kidnapped girls being spoiled lazy layabouts that don’t want to be rescued was a decent punchline.

[ABED]

*The kidnapped girls being spoiled lazy layabouts that don’t want to be rescued was a decent punchline.

More than that, if memory serves, the reason Oolong is terrorizing the village is to steal money to pay for THEIR lifestyle. It's a pretty genius subversion.

[MasenkoHA]

that anyone thinks you could do that sort of story any justice in a single episode.

You absolutely can though. Batman the Animated series almost exclusively did done in ones and gave us great single episode stories like “It’s never too late” “Heart of Ice” “Almost Got em” “The man who killed Batman” “The laughing fish” etc etc

[ABED]

that anyone thinks you could do that sort of story any justice in a single episode.

You absolutely can though. Batman the Animated series almost exclusively did done in ones and gave us great single episode stories like “It’s never too late” “Heart of Ice” “Almost Got em” “The man who killed Batman” “The laughing fish” etc etc

None of those akin to this sort of story. It's a quest. If it's over and done in the first episode, who would possibly buy that it wasn't a ruse? It's way too easy. Think of how much story would need to be packed in the episode - the gang would have to land on a planet and believe they reached the right planet, meet the frauds, go on a quest, believe they are getting the DB's, get subtle hints that something is awry, discover they've been duped, and finally get out of the situation. I'm not arguing that single story episodes aren't possible. Clearly this section of DB is FULL of great single episode stories. Most of these early DB episodes are single episode stories and they are very satisfying. But to pull off a ruse on the audience and not just the characters requires time for moments to breathe. The reason I like the idea of fake Namek is I like the journey to be fraught with complications. It's an intergalactic journey for crying out loud. Three episodes is enough, the big problem is the episodes as executed are boring except for the acid swamp.

[KBABZ]

I don't remember, but does the fish Goku kills in the first episode talk?

He does! For T1C I added the clips in from The Path to Power, the only time he's voiced in English.

*I don’t want to bash the dub too much on this thread (well we’ll see..) but I want to point out the changes in the dub episode were nonsensical and incoherent. For whatever reason the dub added this whole point of the village’s ancestors foreseeing Goku coming to liberate them from Oolong. But that makes absolutely no fucking sense if you think about it for half a second. Oolong isn’t some demon terrorizing this village for centuries he’s some perverted pig boy tricking the villagers for maybe a few months at most.

Again another thing I edited for T1C. Totally agree, there's no reason to suddenly introduce this whole legend-eternal-terror thing. Plus there's an Australian in there, can't have that.