Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:26 am

If Zamas was killed by Zeno I guess he wasn’t immortal, huh?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:52 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:26 am If Zamas was killed by Zeno I guess he wasn’t immortal, huh?
The simplest explanation for this one is that Zeno's erasing powers can override the Super Dragon Balls' powers. It's not confirmed, but it's not a stretch either.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:57 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:26 am If Zamas was killed by Zeno I guess he wasn’t immortal, huh?
Can't tell if you're serious or not. Zeno is literally the King of All.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:15 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:57 am
Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:26 am If Zamas was killed by Zeno I guess he wasn’t immortal, huh?
Can't tell if you're serious or not. Zeno is literally the King of All.
The point is that if Zamas were truly immortal not even Zeno would be able to kill him.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:25 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:15 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:57 am
Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:26 am If Zamas was killed by Zeno I guess he wasn’t immortal, huh?
Can't tell if you're serious or not. Zeno is literally the King of All.
The point is that if Zamas were truly immortal not even Zeno would be able to kill him.
He was truly immortal, so much so that not even the Destroyers could erase him, as Beerus explains in the manga. Zeno erasing him doesn't prove that he wasn't immortal, it proves that Zeno's power is absolute and that he can bend even the power of the Super Dragon Balls.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zarely » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:55 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:47 pm And this is precisely why Beerus ~ Vegetto Blue doesn't work.
But that's what Shin said and Toyotaro questioned. Blue Gogeta is also above Beerus too.

Blue Vegito and Broly were both said to maybe be stronger than Beerus. Fused Zamasu wouldn't be that far off going by his fight with Blue Vegito.

Therefore if Jiren is stronger than Fused Zamasu while a far cry from his true power then his true power must succeed them all. With Jiren being stronger than Belmod it would make sense.

Ultra Instinct Goku > Jiren > Broly > Beerus

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:56 pm

Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:47 am Zamasu coming back from Trunks attack wasn't stated to be due to immortality. Don't you understand, you guys only say so. The story would have to indeed confirm this was the case. IN ORDER to set off the current plot point of Zamasu losing his immortality. It never happened.
Wait, you need it to be spoon-fed to you? you actually need a statement saying OH HE IS STILL IMMORTAL? it is not enough that Zamasu wished for immortality and that he survived being cut in half? this isn't a children's coloring book, this is an audiovisual medium, and he isn't Buu, that's not part of his normal abilities to regenerate and come back from nothing. Without it, he couldn't have survived that. And he came back better than before.
I'm actually wondering if you really skipped episode 67. What you are saying would make sense if the arc ended in E66, but it did not. Your headcanon is actually blocking a whole episode and you try to pass it as facts while acussing others of headcanon and the show of contradicting itself. We didn't say anything, we don't need to, the show brought him back, it never needed to state how because we already knew how: immortality.

It seems you put too much value on statements, even more value than facts that take place AFTER said statements, like idk, not being killed by an ultimate attack that cut Zamasu in half and dissipated him?
Characters can lie, you know? they can be wrong, they can believe they are winning and that does not have to be the case, they are not the off-screen narrator, in Z Shin has been wrong, the same goes for the old kaioshin, and clearly with Gowasu, even Beerus was proven wrong in the same arc. It's funny that you take to heart Vegito's statement, going against the actual show and Toriyama's plot ploint but not manga's Shin about Beerus and Vegito, or anime's Whis about Beerus and Belmod.

And again, in the manga Zamasu is still immortal, even stated by Shin and Goku, Toriyama's outlier was that Trunks's sword attack does not kill Zamasu, he remains alive(immortal) and is now unstoppable and only Zeno can deal with him. This happens in both media, boss Toriyama said Zamasu was immortal even after all, the anime never contradicts it, only you have a problem with it.
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:25 am
Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:15 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:57 am
Can't tell if you're serious or not. Zeno is literally the King of All.
The point is that if Zamas were truly immortal not even Zeno would be able to kill him.
He was truly immortal, so much so that not even the Destroyers could erase him, as Beerus explains in the manga. Zeno erasing him doesn't prove that he wasn't immortal, it proves that Zeno's power is absolute and that he can bend even the power of the Super Dragon Balls.
Yeah, this. Zeno is the ruler of all, he should be able to override it. He is the deus ex machina, the solution to the unsolvable problem. Actually bringing him in implies there would be no other way.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:04 pm

Zamasu's immortality was always a bit of a conundrum to me. While it seems to give him a nonconductive immunity to general ki projectiles, edged implements can still inflict bodily damage on him. His immortality doesn't render his body invulnerable to harm. Also, if the manga is any indication, it appears to require a conscious effort for him to regenerate his body. I would probably liken it to Garlic Jr's immortality.

Now what appears to set Zamasu apart is the fact that his anime rendition was able to reemerge as a paradoxically ethereal entity who could interact with the physical world and distortively react to ki being used against him. The closest comparison I can think of to that manner of existence is the disembodied essences of people seen in the afterlife or the Ghost Usher whom we saw working for Baba. Zamasu is likely tethered to the living world, though.

Having said all that, the depths of Zamasu's immortality were never explored any further beyond his essence retaining cohesiveness after his body was destroyed. If the body was destructible and his essence interactable then what would happen if said essence was obliterated? Would whatever composition that makes up the essence in the DB world still be there? Maybe whatever equivalent to molecules would continue existing but without conscious formation to itself. Immortality without specific mechanics is pretty abstract.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:19 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:31 am
Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:26 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:19 am

I already quoted at the top of this page, in the same post you quoted just now, where he said it.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's the same explanation because it is false that Gowasu said Zamasu was no longer immortal, he said no such thing.
The reason why Vegetto said Zamasu was no longer immortal was because of Gowasu's explanation. They are both saying the same thing.
BTW, that statement, I didn't see it in episode 67.
Except they are not. Again, Gowasu never said he wasn't immortal anymore, he's just saying that it's possible to disrupt his regeneration because he does not have a 100% invincible body anymore in spite of his immortal soul. Vegito later on doesn't mention he isn't immortal anymore, he just says he doesn't have a body that is completely invincible anymore. Also Gowasu says that line when he explains how Zamasu is covering the planet.
The facts are that Vegeto repeated what Gowasu stated. That a mortal is part of an immortal's body.
Therefore the narration concluded that Zamasu is no longer immortal. Straight up facts.
Koitsukai wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:56 pm
Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:47 am Zamasu coming back from Trunks attack wasn't stated to be due to immortality. Don't you understand, you guys only say so. The story would have to indeed confirm this was the case. IN ORDER to set off the current plot point of Zamasu losing his immortality. It never happened.
Wait, you need it to be spoon-fed to you? you actually need a statement saying OH HE IS STILL IMMORTAL? it is not enough that Zamasu wished for immortality and that he survived being cut in half? this isn't a children's coloring book, this is an audiovisual medium, and he isn't Buu, that's not part of his normal abilities to regenerate and come back from nothing. Without it, he couldn't have survived that. And he came back better than before.
I'm actually wondering if you really skipped episode 67. What you are saying would make sense if the arc ended in E66, but it did not. Your headcanon is actually blocking a whole episode and you try to pass it as facts while acussing others of headcanon and the show of contradicting itself. We didn't say anything, we don't need to, the show brought him back, it never needed to state how because we already knew how: immortality.

It seems you put too much value on statements, even more value than facts that take place AFTER said statements, like idk, not being killed by an ultimate attack that cut Zamasu in half and dissipated him?
Characters can lie, you know? they can be wrong, they can believe they are winning and that does not have to be the case, they are not the off-screen narrator, in Z Shin has been wrong, the same goes for the old kaioshin, and clearly with Gowasu, even Beerus was proven wrong in the same arc. It's funny that you take to heart Vegito's statement, going against the actual show and Toriyama's plot ploint but not manga's Shin about Beerus and Vegito, or anime's Whis about Beerus and Belmod.

And again, in the manga Zamasu is still immortal, even stated by Shin and Goku, Toriyama's outlier was that Trunks's sword attack does not kill Zamasu, he remains alive(immortal) and is now unstoppable and only Zeno can deal with him. This happens in both media, boss Toriyama said Zamasu was immortal even after all, the anime never contradicts it, only you have a problem with it.
More headcanon from you. Episode 67 narration didn't change the plot of the story that Zamasu was no longer immortal. Due to the fact that a mortal was part of his body. Also that he was becoming unstable. The narration outright stated it and NEVER confirmed that surviving Trunks was due to immortality. The story has to say so to tell us what is going on with the showings. I can't take your headcanon for it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:23 pm

Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:19 pm The facts are that Vegeto repeated what Gowasu stated. That a mortal is part of an immortal's body.
Therefore the narration concluded that Zamasu is no longer immortal. Straight up facts.
No. The narration never concluded that Zamasu no longer had an immortal soul because of that. I literally debunked it by quoting Gowasu and proving that he never mentioned Zamasu no longer being immortal. I also proved that Vegito never said he wasn't immortal anymore, just that he wasn't PURELY immortal anymore. All that it concluded is that his body can no longer regenerate so perfectly because his regeneration is disrupted by the mortal half of Black. Again, no mention of his soul or him having lost completely his immortality.

Also, Gowasu and Vegito are not the "narration" because they are not omniscient characters and can make mistakes. What they say is not an objective fact.
More headcanon from you. Episode 67 narration didn't change the plot of the story that Zamasu was no longer immortal. Due to the fact that a mortal was part of his body. Also that he was becoming unstable. The narration outright stated it and NEVER confirmed that surviving Trunks was due to immortality. The story has to say so to tell us what is going on with the showings. I can't take your headcanon for it.
THANKS. TO. THE.

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POWER.

Just say that you don't give a shit about my arguments so that I can stop repeating myself.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:47 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:23 pm
Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:19 pm The facts are that Vegeto repeated what Gowasu stated. That a mortal is part of an immortal's body.
Therefore the narration concluded that Zamasu is no longer immortal. Straight up facts.
No. The narration never concluded that Zamasu no longer had an immortal soul because of that. I literally debunked it by quoting Gowasu and proving that he never mentioned Zamasu no longer being immortal. I also proved that Vegito never said he wasn't immortal anymore, just that he wasn't PURELY immortal anymore. All that it concluded is that his body can no longer regenerate so perfectly because his regeneration is disrupted by the mortal half of Black. Again, no mention of his soul or him having lost completely his immortality.

Also, Gowasu and Vegito are not the "narration" because they are not omniscient characters and can make mistakes. What they say is not an objective fact.
More headcanon from you. Episode 67 narration didn't change the plot of the story that Zamasu was no longer immortal. Due to the fact that a mortal was part of his body. Also that he was becoming unstable. The narration outright stated it and NEVER confirmed that surviving Trunks was due to immortality. The story has to say so to tell us what is going on with the showings. I can't take your headcanon for it.
THANKS. TO. THE.

DRAGON.

POWER.

Just say that you don't give a shit about my arguments so that I can stop repeating myself.
I asked you to show me where this was in episode 67. Also, you are flat out wrong again, the narration concluded based off Gowasu and Vegetto's reasoning's that Zamasu was no longer immortal because of Black. You are contradicting the story, that's headcanon.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:03 pm

Don’t Kaio/Kaioshin keep their body and soul when they die? Zamas also had some kind of connection to a strange dimension even before he was teared apart. His situation was probably an unprecedented fact in the Kaio story, which might explain that whole merging-with-the-cosmos-thing.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:04 pm

Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:47 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:23 pm
Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:19 pm The facts are that Vegeto repeated what Gowasu stated. That a mortal is part of an immortal's body.
Therefore the narration concluded that Zamasu is no longer immortal. Straight up facts.
No. The narration never concluded that Zamasu no longer had an immortal soul because of that. I literally debunked it by quoting Gowasu and proving that he never mentioned Zamasu no longer being immortal. I also proved that Vegito never said he wasn't immortal anymore, just that he wasn't PURELY immortal anymore. All that it concluded is that his body can no longer regenerate so perfectly because his regeneration is disrupted by the mortal half of Black. Again, no mention of his soul or him having lost completely his immortality.

Also, Gowasu and Vegito are not the "narration" because they are not omniscient characters and can make mistakes. What they say is not an objective fact.
More headcanon from you. Episode 67 narration didn't change the plot of the story that Zamasu was no longer immortal. Due to the fact that a mortal was part of his body. Also that he was becoming unstable. The narration outright stated it and NEVER confirmed that surviving Trunks was due to immortality. The story has to say so to tell us what is going on with the showings. I can't take your headcanon for it.
THANKS. TO. THE.

DRAGON.

POWER.

Just say that you don't give a shit about my arguments so that I can stop repeating myself.
I asked you to show me where this was in episode 67. Also, you are flat out wrong again, the narration concluded based off Gowasu and Vegetto's reasoning's that Zamasu was no longer immortal because of Black. You are contradicting the story, that's headcanon.
And I literally quoted Gowasu's statement several times and told you at which point of the episode you could find it.

Also, Gowasu and Vegito, once again, never said he was no longer immortal. Gowasu never even talked about "immortality" or "invincibility" in ep. 66, he just said his body was no longer fully impervious to damage, and Vegito said he wasn't PURELY invincible anymore. That doesn't mean he was no longer invincible, it means he was no longer 100% invincible, which is referring to half his body being mortal. Also, neither of them ever even mention the status of Zamasu's soul in ep. 66.

There's not an ounce of headcanon in my arguments. I am literally repeating what Gowasu and Vegito said word by word.
Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:03 pm Don’t Kaio/Kaioshin keep their body and soul when they die? Zamas also had some kind of connection to a strange dimension even before he was teared apart. His situation was probably an unprecedented fact in the Kaio story, which might explain that whole merging-with-the-cosmos-thing.
Interesting. We only know he was able to survive thanks to his immortality, but we don't know precisely how he could merge with the fabric of the cosmos, if you just need to have a very strong will or something like that. My theory is that he still required a host body because, well, everyone does, and he just latched onto the nearest thing, which was the world itself.

If you're referring to the portal Black opened, he himself does not know what he did. He said it could be a portal through time and space, or it could just be a physical representation of the hatred and rage he harbors within.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:21 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:04 pm
Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:47 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:23 pm

No. The narration never concluded that Zamasu no longer had an immortal soul because of that. I literally debunked it by quoting Gowasu and proving that he never mentioned Zamasu no longer being immortal. I also proved that Vegito never said he wasn't immortal anymore, just that he wasn't PURELY immortal anymore. All that it concluded is that his body can no longer regenerate so perfectly because his regeneration is disrupted by the mortal half of Black. Again, no mention of his soul or him having lost completely his immortality.

Also, Gowasu and Vegito are not the "narration" because they are not omniscient characters and can make mistakes. What they say is not an objective fact.



THANKS. TO. THE.

DRAGON.

POWER.

Just say that you don't give a shit about my arguments so that I can stop repeating myself.
I asked you to show me where this was in episode 67. Also, you are flat out wrong again, the narration concluded based off Gowasu and Vegetto's reasoning's that Zamasu was no longer immortal because of Black. You are contradicting the story, that's headcanon.
And I literally quoted Gowasu's statement several times and told you at which point of the episode you could find it.

Also, Gowasu and Vegito, once again, never said he was no longer immortal. Gowasu never even talked about "immortality" or "invincibility" in ep. 66, he just said his body was no longer fully impervious to damage, and Vegito said he wasn't PURELY invincible anymore. That doesn't mean he was no longer invincible, it means he was no longer 100% invincible, which is referring to half his body being mortal. Also, neither of them ever even mention the status of Zamasu's soul in ep. 66.

There's not an ounce of headcanon in my arguments. I am literally repeating what Gowasu and Vegito said word by word.
No, what you posted was a an image with words with non fused Zamasu's face. Also, Vegetto straight up said Zamasu is no longer immortal because of what Gowasu stated. That he has a mortal in his body now. You saying different is headcanon.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:42 pm

Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:21 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:04 pm
Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:47 pm
I asked you to show me where this was in episode 67. Also, you are flat out wrong again, the narration concluded based off Gowasu and Vegetto's reasoning's that Zamasu was no longer immortal because of Black. You are contradicting the story, that's headcanon.
And I literally quoted Gowasu's statement several times and told you at which point of the episode you could find it.

Also, Gowasu and Vegito, once again, never said he was no longer immortal. Gowasu never even talked about "immortality" or "invincibility" in ep. 66, he just said his body was no longer fully impervious to damage, and Vegito said he wasn't PURELY invincible anymore. That doesn't mean he was no longer invincible, it means he was no longer 100% invincible, which is referring to half his body being mortal. Also, neither of them ever even mention the status of Zamasu's soul in ep. 66.

There's not an ounce of headcanon in my arguments. I am literally repeating what Gowasu and Vegito said word by word.
No, what you posted was a an image with words with non fused Zamasu's face. Also, Vegetto straight up said Zamasu is no longer immortal because of what Gowasu stated. That he has a mortal in his body now. You saying different is headcanon.
Yes, AFTER you wrongly claimed Zamasu didn't survive thanks to his immortality, when Gowasu said that he survived thanks to the dragon's power, and as we can see in that image I posted, the dragon's power was immortality. And you said that AFTER I had already mentioned Gowasu's line in ep. 67.

Again, No, Vegito never said he was no longer immortal, he said he was no longer PURELY immortal. It doesn't mean he no longer retained an immortal soul or an immortal half, it means he was no longer COMPLETELY, ONLY, and PURELY immortal. Since you accuse me of headcanon:

Image

If I say "The company no longer focuses purely on videogames", I am not saying that the company is not making videogames anymore, I am saying that the company no longer makes ONLY videogames.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:04 pm

Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:19 pm
More headcanon from you. Episode 67 narration didn't change the plot of the story that Zamasu was no longer immortal. Due to the fact that a mortal was part of his body. Also that he was becoming unstable. The narration outright stated it and NEVER confirmed that surviving Trunks was due to immortality. The story has to say so to tell us what is going on with the showings. I can't take your headcanon for it.
Yes, Mr. Sherman everything is headcanon...

The story does not have to tell us anything when it is already showing it, seeing the immortal character still doing immortal stuff suffices, most people caught up on that. A character says X (he is not immortal anymore thus can be killed), then the situation proves X to be wrong (they can't kill him).

Gowasu, Vegito, and you claim Zamasu can be killed. Trunks put your theory to the test, and it failed because they could NOT kill him not even cutting him in half and dissolving him, and later couldn't even touch him as Infinite Zamasu.

In any case YOU have to prove us that Zamasu was not immortal and that can be killed by non-Zeno characters, our proof is that he was cut in half, destroyed yet he came back better than before and a deus ex machina was needed to end him.

Also, Toriyama's outlier says Zamasu is immortal, Toei chose to put that into question for a while with the opinions of bystanders but in the end Toriyama's decision remained, so this is pointless.
They couldn't kill Zamasu and that is a fact that can be checked in episode 67. Any other explanation, aside from the immortality, as to why Zamasu survived is headcanon. That is also a fact.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:58 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:42 pm
Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:21 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:04 pm

And I literally quoted Gowasu's statement several times and told you at which point of the episode you could find it.

Also, Gowasu and Vegito, once again, never said he was no longer immortal. Gowasu never even talked about "immortality" or "invincibility" in ep. 66, he just said his body was no longer fully impervious to damage, and Vegito said he wasn't PURELY invincible anymore. That doesn't mean he was no longer invincible, it means he was no longer 100% invincible, which is referring to half his body being mortal. Also, neither of them ever even mention the status of Zamasu's soul in ep. 66.

There's not an ounce of headcanon in my arguments. I am literally repeating what Gowasu and Vegito said word by word.
No, what you posted was a an image with words with non fused Zamasu's face. Also, Vegetto straight up said Zamasu is no longer immortal because of what Gowasu stated. That he has a mortal in his body now. You saying different is headcanon.
Yes, AFTER you wrongly claimed Zamasu didn't survive thanks to his immortality, when Gowasu said that he survived thanks to the dragon's power, and as we can see in that image I posted, the dragon's power was immortality. And you said that AFTER I had already mentioned Gowasu's line in ep. 67.

Again, No, Vegito never said he was no longer immortal, he said he was no longer PURELY immortal. It doesn't mean he no longer retained an immortal soul or an immortal half, it means he was no longer COMPLETELY, ONLY, and PURELY immortal. Since you accuse me of headcanon:

Image

If I say "The company no longer focuses purely on videogames", I am not saying that the company is not making videogames anymore, I am saying that the company no longer makes ONLY videogames.
Here is the legit image of Vegetto.

Image

BTW, that other image about Zamasu surviving, it is not concerning Trunks attack.
You aren't in line with the story.
Koitsukai wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:04 pm
Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:19 pm
More headcanon from you. Episode 67 narration didn't change the plot of the story that Zamasu was no longer immortal. Due to the fact that a mortal was part of his body. Also that he was becoming unstable. The narration outright stated it and NEVER confirmed that surviving Trunks was due to immortality. The story has to say so to tell us what is going on with the showings. I can't take your headcanon for it.
Yes, Mr. Sherman everything is headcanon...

The story does not have to tell us anything when it is already showing it, seeing the immortal character still doing immortal stuff suffices, most people caught up on that. A character says X (he is not immortal anymore thus can be killed), then the situation proves X to be wrong (they can't kill him).

Gowasu, Vegito, and you claim Zamasu can be killed. Trunks put your theory to the test, and it failed because they could NOT kill him not even cutting him in half and dissolving him, and later couldn't even touch him as Infinite Zamasu.

In any case YOU have to prove us that Zamasu was not immortal and that can be killed by non-Zeno characters, our proof is that he was cut in half, destroyed yet he came back better than before and a deus ex machina was needed to end him.

Also, Toriyama's outlier says Zamasu is immortal, Toei chose to put that into question for a while with the opinions of bystanders but in the end Toriyama's decision remained, so this is pointless.
They couldn't kill Zamasu and that is a fact that can be checked in episode 67. Any other explanation, aside from the immortality, as to why Zamasu survived is headcanon. That is also a fact.
Zamasu was stated to have no immortality. That's a fact, however, you headcanon and say he does. You made the claim, you have to prove that the story confirms your feelings with narration confirming Zamas REASONS for surviving Trunks attack. Just randomly saying "BU BU HE CAME BACK" doesn't mean it is because of immortality when the story already stated he has a mortal now which makes him lose immortality.

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ZombieVito
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:29 pm

Please explain to me how a Kaioshin/Saiyan can survive being cut in half if he's not immortal.

He was still conscious, talked and then choose to turn Infinite.

Also Gowasu never says he's no longer immortal, thats headcanon.

SupremeKai25, wheres is that Vegetto image from? The Bluray?

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Koitsukai
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:41 pm

Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:58 pm Zamasu was stated to have no immortality. That's a fact, however, you headcanon and say he does. You made the claim, you have to prove that the story confirms your feelings with narration confirming Zamas REASONS for surviving Trunks attack.
No, you are not correct because I never made the claim, the show did when they showed Zamasu wishing immortality and of course when they showed many times he could not be killed due to that FACT.
So, now YOU have to prove Zamasu was not immortal anymore. Statements do not count, not only because predate the event that disproves them, but because weren't from an authority like Toriyama or even Zamasu himself, they were from other characters, and like many before them and many after, they were inaccurate and do not reflect the opinions of the author, only theirs about a particular fusion they knew nothing about. Believing a certain statement is the unquestionable truth is bias, and when later reality proves them wrong it becomes headcanon.

And a statement is not a fact, please stop repeating that because is not accurate. Vegeta stated he was the legendary SS in Namek, that did not make it a fact. Also, they couldn't kill Zamasu, so the statement was never corroborated until Zeno pulled the plug. You are arguing with Toriyama here, man, come on. I have an actual flashback and a hell of a survival feat, you have a troubled kaioshin chiming in on a subject he has never witnessed before.

Miracles wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:58 pm Just randomly saying "BU BU HE CAME BACK" doesn't mean it is because of immortality when the story already stated he has a mortal now which makes him lose immortality.
I invite you then, to explain to us, WITHOUT HEADCANON, just facts, how Zamasu survived Trunks's final attack that in no way a non-immortal character could survive and come back with at least the same force.

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:59 pm

Did he survive though? Sounds like he came back as the Kaioshins do when they die before their lifespan expires.

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