Movie Bob Talks About Dragon Ball

[ABED]

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/boo ... g-picture/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj0oobd2J_Q

If you haven't seen anything from Movie Bob, I highly recommend his videos on YouTube and The Escapist. They're fun, informative, well articulated. He also has an amazing 3+ hour analysis on Batman v Superman. It's not simply a takedown, it's genuine film criticism with substantive critiques about the film.

[WittyUsername]

The guy can be pretty annoying with how he expresses his opinions. He kind of reminds me of Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons, only much more political nowadays. Hasn’t he suggested on more than one occasion that alt-right people love DC films?

[ABED]

Movie Bob is nothing like comic Book Guy. That's reductive, but Film Critic Hulk has a very thoughtful piece about why Joker has connected with people and for very problematic reasons. Regardless of whether you agree with Bob or Hulk, they are worth listening to. Both have a great well of knowledge about film, pop culture, and storytelling in general.

Concerning him getting political, I don't think we can afford to not be political these days.

[Hellspawn28]

I'm not a fan of Movie Bob at all because he can be pretty self-righteous and hypocritical at times. I also feel like people like to hate on 90s comics because of him and Linkara when most of them never read any of them. My buddy Asalieri2 did a video on ripping the dude apart https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRgWZb ... FGJRxYMEM8

[ABED]

I did read 90s comics, and they did by and large suck. I liked them when I was a kid, but you grow up and tastes change or you realize the greater context and they don't have quite the same effect when you were younger.

I don't care to watch your friend's video take down of a film critic, sorry. I find people who do that sort of thing have WAY too much time on their hands, have little of value to say, and don't articulate their point well.

Does anyone have anything interesting to say about his Dragon Ball videos?

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

I'm not a fan of Movie Bob at all because he can be pretty self-righteous and hypocritical at times. I also feel like people like to hate on 90s comics because of him and Linkara when most of them never read any of them. My buddy Asalieri2 did a video on ripping the dude apart https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRgWZb ... FGJRxYMEM8

People hate on 90s comic because they were bad. Case in point, the Japanese manga Devilman beat 90s comics to everything they're known for but few peopl ever complain about it because it tried to have a worthwhile story and themes worth following. Ditto mangas like Berserk which featured an infant being hurled into a fireplace while its caretaker is brutally raped and dismembered. 90's comics earned their reputation and as far as I'm concerned they got off easy.

[Hellspawn28]

I'm not a fan of Movie Bob at all because he can be pretty self-righteous and hypocritical at times. I also feel like people like to hate on 90s comics because of him and Linkara when most of them never read any of them. My buddy Asalieri2 did a video on ripping the dude apart https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRgWZb ... FGJRxYMEM8

People hate on 90s comic because they were bad. Case in point, the Japanese manga Devilman beat 90s comics to everything they're known for but few peopl ever complain about it because it tried to have a worthwhile story and themes worth following. Ditto mangas like Berserk which featured an infant being hurled into a fireplace while its caretaker is brutally raped and dismembered. 90's comics earned their reputation and as far as I'm concerned they got off easy.

I do agree that the 90s had some awful comics, but you had many of them are noteworthy in my opinion like Spawn, The Maxx, Scud, Hellboy, Rise of the Midnight Sons, Preacher, Transmetropolitan, etc. My issue with Internet reviewers like Movie Bob, Linkara, Nostalgia Critic, Bennett the Sage, Mr. Enter, etc. is that people always tend to based their opinions on them without reading or knowing the source material. I have seen people say that Jim Lee, Todd Mcfarlane, and Erik Larsen were never good because other Youtubers said so when those guys were always liked and respected for years.

People are the same with anime when I see people give out bad reviews like Wicked City, Galaxy Express 999, Iria, Violence Jack, Apocalypse Zero, etc. based on people like Bennett the Sage and other anime critics when they mostly likely never watch them.

[WittyUsername]

Movie Bob is nothing like comic Book Guy. That's reductive, but Film Critic Hulk has a very thoughtful piece about why Joker has connected with people and for very problematic reasons. Regardless of whether you agree with Bob or Hulk, they are worth listening to. Both have a great well of knowledge about film, pop culture, and storytelling in general.

Concerning him getting political, I don't think we can afford to not be political these days.

I don’t get this argument that Joker connected with the alt-right and incels. That seems more like something certain journalists and film critics claimed would happen for some inexplicable reason. I did see some far right people who gloated over the film’s success, but that seemed to be more of a reactionary thing, rather than an indication of the kinds of people the film appeals to.

Anyway, since there’s been virtually no discussion of Dragon Ball in this thread, I guess I’ll be the first one to talk about MovieBob’s video on the Korean Dragon Ball film. I’ve never seen the movie myself, and until this video, I had only actually seen screenshots of the movie, so I guess it’s cool that a somewhat well known Internet personality is bringing more awareness to it.

[ABED]

Movie Bob is nothing like comic Book Guy. That's reductive, but Film Critic Hulk has a very thoughtful piece about why Joker has connected with people and for very problematic reasons. Regardless of whether you agree with Bob or Hulk, they are worth listening to. Both have a great well of knowledge about film, pop culture, and storytelling in general.

Concerning him getting political, I don't think we can afford to not be political these days.

I don’t get this argument that Joker connected with the alt-right and incels. That seems more like something certain journalists and film critics claimed would happen for some inexplicable reason. I did see some far right people who floated over the film’s success, but that seemed to be more of a reactionary thing, rather than an indication of the kinds of people the film appeals to.

Anyway, since there’s been virtually no discussion of Dragon Ball in this thread, I guess I’ll be the first one to talk about MovieBob’s video on the Korean Dragon Ball film. I’ve never seen the movie myself, and until this video, I had only actually seen screenshots of the movie, so I guess it’s cool that a somewhat well known Internet personality is bringing more awareness to it.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/33213577 explains it better than I ever could.

Regarding the Korean film, I don't have any interest in actually watching it, but I do like whenever professional critics talk about DB.

[Robo4900]

I don’t get this argument that Joker connected with the alt-right and incels. That seems more like something certain journalists and film critics claimed would happen for some inexplicable reason. I did see some far right people who gloated over the film’s success, but that seemed to be more of a reactionary thing, rather than an indication of the kinds of people the film appeals to.

You're missing the key thing here:

The problem isn't that people who liked Joker are alt-right crazies, because that's simply not true.
The problem is that a lot of alt-right crazies connected with Joker.

It's the Watchmen problem, basically: No, it wasn't made for alt-right Ayn Rand-obsessed maniacs, but a lot of people -- such as Zack Snyder -- read that comic, and saw an aspirational hero in Rorschach.
That doesn't mean fans of Watchmen are alt-right crazies, it means that some alt-right crazies connected with Watchmen.

Here's a little tangent clarifying my Zack Snyder remark, and briefly going into the "MovieBob said DC fans are alt-right" thing that was touched on earlier:

Spoiler:

And, to be clear, no, I'm not saying Zack Snyder is an alt-right crazy. But the toxic Ayn Rand philosophy he follows is rather prevalent among the more far-right-leaning populous, and of course, Mr Snyder made the Watchmen movie, and one of the biggest criticisms of that film is that it frames the Watchmen -- particularly Rorschach -- as being heroes. And, to briefly touch on the earlier-mentioned criticism of MovieBob saying that DC fans are alt-right, once again, the problem isn't that DC fans are alt-right, it's that there's a contingent among the Snyder fans who are alt-right. An interesting example to point to: #ReleaseTheSnyderCut is not an alt-right movement, nor is it a harassment campaign, it's a contingent of fans who want to see the version of a movie that was directed by the guy who made its predecessors that they liked a lot more, a contingent that has raised at least a few thousand dollars for a suicide prevention charity. The only problem is that there are some alt-right crazies among this contingent, and so naturally, some of them tend to get quite mean to people who are sceptical that the Snyder Cut exists -- though it is worth noting that at this point, the Snyder Cut is known to exist, though it'll be in the form of an unfinished workprint.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled over-long Robopost

.

And for a lot of people who didn't see a lot of value in Joker (such as Bob), it can feel like Joker was a bit of an irresponsible movie to make; devoid of a real point to make other than "look at how good an actor Joaquin Phoenix is", and ultimately giving some alt-right crazies a movie they can really connect with and get behind, in a rather troubling way.

Remember this key thing: The alt-rights & incels are vastly in the minority of people. They're an absolutely tiny proportion of the population. A film that is only successful with those people isn't a successful film. This was never about "Its audience is the alt-right & incels", it's more about the problem that the film arguably resonates a little too strongly among the alt-rights in its audience. Again, just like how Watchmen resonated just a bit too strongly among the crazy Ayn Rand-obsessed people who it was designed to criticise. There's also a comparison to be made about Infinity War, and the way some argue it doesn't frame Thanos as being in the wrong quite enough; much as I disagree with it, it is worth considering that the fact there is a sincere "Thanos did nothing wrong" movement is troubling. Yes, it's a minority of people so small as to be nearly insignificant, but it is somewhat troubling that a film would resonate with such people so strongly, and arguably says that the film didn't do a good enough job at framing the actions of its villain protagonist as villainous.

Another great example is Rick And Morty, where Rick is far too consistently framed as being in the right despite him being a horrible, terrible, awful person. And his horrendous attitudes often being framed as being right in the show is arguably a large reason why the fandom for the show is so awful. Again, the people who sympathise with Rick and consider him an aspirational, good figure are the minority, the vast, vast, vast minority, to an extent that it really shouldn't matter, but it's still troubling, and it has ruined the fandom, and one could easily argue -- for this reason -- that the show doesn't frame Rick as being in the wrong enough.

I'm far from the best person to speak on this -- to be honest, I've tried to stay out of a lot of it, I find a lot of it to be frustratingly polarised (a lot of the argument I've seen against Infinity War tends to go as far as "the Russo brothers are horrible people for making a movie that might make some alt-right people happy", or as far as "This entire discussion is stupid and you're stupid for bringing it up"; there's not enough nuance, basically, and the thing is, there are two sides to this -- the Russo brothers made a great film, but that film did resonate with some awful people in some bad ways), or a given take is too long-form for me to end up having the time to read/watch through it fully, even though this is the kind of thing that does require some nuance, therefore a longer take is probably the best one to read.
But my angle is this: Joker, Infinity War, and Rick And Morty are clearly well-liked by a lot of people, and naturally, some bad people getting some troubling things from these things shouldn't ruin your enjoyment/appreciation of these things, but it is worth acknowledging that there's a problematic side to these things, and even if that doesn't bother you, you can't really fault certain film critics/journalists for pointing this out.

I suggest you read the Film Crit Hulk Patreon post ABED linked above, though; probably a far better read on this than my word salad of meandering drivel.

Anyway, since there’s been virtually no discussion of Dragon Ball in this thread, I guess I’ll be the first one to talk about MovieBob’s video on the Korean Dragon Ball film. I’ve never seen the movie myself, and until this video, I had only actually seen screenshots of the movie, so I guess it’s cool that a somewhat well known Internet personality is bringing more awareness to it.

I also haven't seen the film, and have no interest in seeing it, but I'm really happy Bob did a video on it. I love his content where he talks about a weird, obscure pop culture thing, and Dragon Ball is ony of my favourite things ever, so him doing this is pretty much my ideal online content.

Haven't seen the video myself yet, though. Will watch it a little later. I remember seeing his "Nazi stuff in Dragon Ball Z?" video a while ago; I recall it being very interesting. I do enjoy when film critics delve into history and culture like he did in that video. Though I remember being mildly disappointed that the video didn't have much to do with Dragon Ball, in the end.

[WittyUsername]

You're missing the key thing here:

The problem isn't that people who liked Joker are alt-right crazies, because that's simply not true.
The problem is that a lot of alt-right crazies connected with Joker.

It's the Watchmen problem, basically: No, it wasn't made for alt-right Ayn Rand-obsessed maniacs, but a lot of people -- such as Zack Snyder -- read that comic, and saw an aspirational hero in Rorschach.
That doesn't mean fans of Watchmen are alt-right crazies, it means that some alt-right crazies connected with Watchmen.

Here's a little tangent clarifying my Zack Snyder remark, and briefly going into the "MovieBob said DC fans are alt-right" thing that was touched on earlier:

Spoiler:

And, to be clear, no, I'm not saying Zack Snyder is an alt-right crazy. But the toxic Ayn Rand philosophy he follows is rather prevalent among the more far-right-leaning populous, and of course, Mr Snyder made the Watchmen movie, and one of the biggest criticisms of that film is that it frames the Watchmen -- particularly Rorschach -- as being heroes. And, to briefly touch on the earlier-mentioned criticism of MovieBob saying that DC fans are alt-right, once again, the problem isn't that DC fans are alt-right, it's that there's a contingent among the Snyder fans who are alt-right. An interesting example to point to: #ReleaseTheSnyderCut is not an alt-right movement, nor is it a harassment campaign, it's a contingent of fans who want to see the version of a movie that was directed by the guy who made its predecessors that they liked a lot more, a contingent that has raised at least a few thousand dollars for a suicide prevention charity. The only problem is that there are some alt-right crazies among this contingent, and so naturally, some of them tend to get quite mean to people who are sceptical that the Snyder Cut exists -- though it is worth noting that at this point, the Snyder Cut is known to exist, though it'll be in the form of an unfinished workprint.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled over-long Robopost

.

And for a lot of people who didn't see a lot of value in Joker (such as Bob), it can feel like Joker was a bit of an irresponsible movie to make; devoid of a real point to make other than "look at how good an actor Joaquin Phoenix is", and ultimately giving some alt-right crazies a movie they can really connect with and get behind, in a rather troubling way.

Remember this key thing: The alt-rights & incels are vastly in the minority of people. They're an absolutely tiny proportion of the population. A film that is only successful with those people isn't a successful film. This was never about "Its audience is the alt-right & incels", it's more about the problem that the film arguably resonates a little too strongly among the alt-rights in its audience. Again, just like how Watchmen resonated just a bit too strongly among the crazy Ayn Rand-obsessed people who it was designed to criticise. There's also a comparison to be made about Infinity War, and the way some argue it doesn't frame Thanos as being in the wrong quite enough; much as I disagree with it, it is worth considering that the fact there is a sincere "Thanos did nothing wrong" movement is troubling. Yes, it's a minority of people so small as to be nearly insignificant, but it is somewhat troubling that a film would resonate with such people so strongly, and arguably says that the film didn't do a good enough job at framing the actions of its villain protagonist as villainous.

Another great example is Rick And Morty, where Rick is far too consistently framed as being in the right despite him being a horrible, terrible, awful person. And his horrendous attitudes often being framed as being right in the show is arguably a large reason why the fandom for the show is so awful. Again, the people who sympathise with Rick and consider him an aspirational, good figure are the minority, the vast, vast, vast minority, to an extent that it really shouldn't matter, but it's still troubling, and it has ruined the fandom, and one could easily argue -- for this reason -- that the show doesn't frame Rick as being in the wrong enough.

I'm far from the best person to speak on this -- to be honest, I've tried to stay out of a lot of it, I find a lot of it to be frustratingly polarised (a lot of the argument I've seen against Infinity War tends to go as far as "the Russo brothers are horrible people for making a movie that might make some alt-right people happy", or as far as "This entire discussion is stupid and you're stupid for bringing it up"; there's not enough nuance, basically, and the thing is, there are two sides to this -- the Russo brothers made a great film, but that film did resonate with some awful people in some bad ways), or a given take is too long-form for me to end up having the time to read/watch through it fully, even though this is the kind of thing that does require some nuance, therefore a longer take is probably the best one to read.
But my angle is this: Joker, Infinity War, and Rick And Morty are clearly well-liked by a lot of people, and naturally, some bad people getting some troubling things from these things shouldn't ruin your enjoyment/appreciation of these things, but it is worth acknowledging that there's a problematic side to these things, and even if that doesn't bother you, you can't really fault certain film critics/journalists for pointing this out.

I suggest you read the Film Crit Hulk Patreon post ABED linked above, though; probably a far better read on this than my word salad of meandering drivel.

I haven’t really seen much evidence to support the idea that the alt-right connected particularly strongly with Snyder’s DC movies. I mean, Ben Shapiro liked BvS, but regardless of what you think of him (and I personally can’t stand him), it’s probably not fair to classify a devoutly Orthodox Jewish man as alt-right.

I know people have talked about how Snyder being a fan of Ayn Rand is supposedly reflected in his version of Superman, but honestly, I don’t see it. Contrary to what people say, the Superman of the Zack Snyder films has in fact been shown taking the time to save people without asking for anything in return. Yeah, his adopted father didn’t want him doing that stuff, but the movie also had Jor-El make a big deal about how he would be the savior of humanity, and the very first thing he did in the movie was save a bunch of people from an exploding oil rig. Then you have the fact that BvS had him saving the world at the cost of his own life. I’m certainly not saying BvS is a good film, but I don’t know if I would describe it as an objectivist movie, at least not anymore than a typical superhero story.

Beyond that, right wing people in general don’t like Ben Affleck, and when JL flopped, there were plenty of right wing websites that were more than happy to gloat about how Affleck’s then recent scandals possibly helped tank the movie. Plus, Snyder cast a queer actor as the Flash, and an actor of Polynesian descent as one of the whitest superheroes in existence.

To be clear, I do agree that Snyder misses the point of Watchmen. You wont get any argument from me there. Just look at all the people who complained about the HBO show for being “too woke” and “ruining Rorschach”.

I’m not saying there aren’t alt-right people who love DC movies, but there are alt-right people who love Marvel movies as well. My problem is that MovieBob has previously suggested that Marvel movies are somehow inherently less likely to appeal to the far right, which I found kind of annoying. I guess my big problem is that it seems like a really reductive argument to make about people who are fans of movies that he hates.

Anyway, to cycle things back to Dragon Ball, would anyone say that it has a noticeable alt-right following?