If we get another home release, it needs to be in 4K "UHD"

[Arteaga4K]

Here we are in 2020, a new decade, and the season blu ray sets and EVEN the orange bricks are the only commercially available home releases of DBZ (ugh). Sure, we've got streaming, but I still don't see physical media dying for good any time soon (and the casual fans don't seem to be in any hurry to stop purchasing no matter how bad the home releases are, not their fault of course). I know most people on here are on the verge of or already lost any hope for a proper home release after the 30th anniversary debacle, but a 4K release could still be possible. I know some would argue that scanning the show in 4K would be pointless, and that there probably wouldn't be that much of a benefit but I don't see DBZ getting another home release unless funimation could find some way to differentiate it from the other releases, although Dragon Ball and GT could probably get away with it since it doesn't get a release nearly as often, plus funimation's marketing team never fails so you know they'd talk 4K and "never before seen" to the grave anyway. 4K TVs are pretty much all that sell these days and Sony's PS5 is sure to come with a 4K blu ray player which outta help keep physical media alive. Thoughts?

[KBABZ]

Honestly, this is really only of any benefit to the movies and that reel from the Namek arc, as they were printed on bigger film stock. The rest of the shows, from DB001 to GT064, were printed on smaller film and thus they stand to gain substantially less detail. The Level sets are pretty much the ceiling when it comes to detail to be added to that smaller film. Additionally Funimation have a tendency to stick to a proven, highly profitable release once they land on one, as shown by UUE vs OB and Levels vs Blu-Ray Seasons. If they also feel that there's no detail to be gained, they'll stick to selling the Blu-Ray Seasons, which are the de-facto "one and done" release for Z.

I also don't think 4KTVs are the norm yet; they will be one day of course, but at the moment we're still in the 2008 era so to speak where the new standard is becoming more commonplace, but it hasn't fully replaced CRTs and 720p displays yet. 4K is also only really beneficial at certain sizes; 4K on a 20" doesn't benefit anybody except pixel density purists or PC gamers. I'd say in about three or four years it will be the case.

[Matches Malone]

Let's get a Blu-Ray release of DB and GT before we think of 4K, which if it's from Funi it'll just be an upscale of their Orange sets and Blu-Rays which aren't good to begin with.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

As pointless as it is, other than having many more episodes per disc I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is the direction Funimation go. We've already started to see anime get UHD Blu-Ray releases, Funi will want to start their own line of titles and if there's one that you can be guaranteed will sell for them it's DBZ.

Let's get a Blu-Ray release of DB and GT before we think of 4K, which if it's from Funi it'll just be an upscale of their Orange sets and Blu-Rays which aren't good to begin with.

I really want those two on Blu-Ray with English subtitles too, rather than have Z milked once again. Such a shame OG DB and GT don't sell as well. They deserve better.

[KBABZ]

As pointless as it is, other than having many more episodes per disc I wouldn't at all be surprised if this is the direction Funimation go. We've already started to see anime get UHD Blu-Ray releases, Funi will want to start their own line of titles and if there's one that you can be guaranteed will sell for them it's DBZ.

Yeah. It's a shame "SD Blu-Rays" never became a thing because you could cover the entirety of Dragon Ball in two or three discs contained in a single box rather than having to try and sell five parts of one show.

Let's get a Blu-Ray release of DB and GT before we think of 4K, which if it's from Funi it'll just be an upscale of their Orange sets and Blu-Rays which aren't good to begin with.

I really want those two on Blu-Ray with English subtitles too, rather than have Z milked once again. Such a shame OG DB and GT don't sell as well. They deserve better.

Agreed; the name change to Z has been really destructive in the long run from a historical perspective. Outside of the occasional "Hey remember Kid Goku?" nostalgia grabs in Super, OG DB is only really acknowledged when Toei wants to celebrate the anniversary of the franchise as a whole every five years. If the anime was all called Dragon Ball from start to finish then I think the early stuff would be in much better shape worldwide.

[Robo4900]

Honestly, this is really only of any benefit to the movies and that reel from the Namek arc, as they were printed on bigger film stock.

Funi's film copies of the Z series are 16mm-only, so they would be unable to take advantage of the larger film stock for the series that Toei has been able to for the DBox and Kai.

And Toei are highly unlikely to ever remaster Dragon Ball from its mostly-16mm masters.

However, that won't stop Funi; the next release of DBZ will be essentially the Season BDs (same shitty "remastering", same shitty cropped framing, same shitty colours, same shitty everything), but upscaled to 4K. I am certain of this.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Honestly, this is really only of any benefit to the movies and that reel from the Namek arc, as they were printed on bigger film stock.

Funi's film copies of the Z series are 16mm-only, so they would be unable to take advantage of the larger film stock for the series that Toei has been able to for the DBox and Kai.

And Toei are highly unlikely to ever remaster Dragon Ball from its mostly-16mm masters.

However, that won't stop Funi; the next release of DBZ will be essentially the Season BDs (same shitty "remastering", same shitty cropped framing, same shitty colours, same shitty everything), but upscaled to 4K. I am certain of this.

Which is even more of a shame, because they have raw good base film masters as shown in their BS almost downright insulting blog post about the 30th Anniversary set that would look fine scanned in at that resolution with some minor adjustments. But for whatever reason they believe smearing the picture to hell and cutting down the aspect ratio to an incorrect 16:9 framing is the best way to go, and basically since 2007 with the Orange Bricks have more or less had that mindset for nearly all of their releases sans the Level sets, oh if only those hadn't gone belly up after just two sets because they looked really good and i'd have bought them with no complaints. However, it seems the remastering people in FUNi's home video department will never come to their senses and not continue to completely butcher the show's intended presentation in all aspects. Thus the Dragon Boxes even with their flaws will continue to be my definitive way in which to view the series for the foreseeable future, because at this point i simply have no faith at this point that FUNi will get it right with whatever release comes next or thereafter given the amount of times it the last decade plus that they've dropped the ball. The people in charge of thehome video releases clearly don't have any integrity or care toward making it look the way it's intended to be seen, and the thing which makes it even more of a travesty is they do in fact have the means by which to put out an actually good HD/4K release but intentionally choose not to in favor of making it look like a flashy new modern production and filling people's widescreen TV's.

Seriously, they don't want to give us a genuinely remastered HD release in the proper aspect ratio for some unfathomable reason. They really could use some people who actually care about having the show out in a form that does it justice because clearly the current remastering team doesn't.

[Matches Malone]

The name change to Z has been really destructive in the long run from a historical perspective. If the anime was all called Dragon Ball from start to finish then I think the early stuff would be in much better shape worldwide.

There's also an equal chance that without Z, the franchise would've never gotten as popular as it has. In North America for example, DB failed to get off the ground (which wasn't its fault) and they jumped straight to Z which took off beyond anyone's expectations. Without a new #1 episodes to start with, Funimation may not have moved on with EP154 if both shows were under the DB name. In Japan, the name was changed to allow the show to be marketed better and maybe even get a better budget, something that wouldn't have happened without the name change.

When it comes to DB's popularity, or lack thereof, I blame the companies behind the franchise for marketing Z as the main and sometimes only part of the franchise that mattered, not the name change. Had the companies treated DB as the first part of the original manga and marketed it like Z, it wouldn't be in the position it's in today. Look at Super, despite being the new part of the franchise, Z and even GT get just as much spotlight worldwide, so there's no reason DB couldn't have gotten the same when Z was the main thing.

[MasenkoHA]

The name change to Z has been really destructive in the long run from a historical perspective. If the anime was all called Dragon Ball from start to finish then I think the early stuff would be in much better shape worldwide.

There's also an equal chance that without Z, the franchise would've never gotten as popular as it has. In North America for example, DB failed to get off the ground (which wasn't its fault) and they jumped straight to Z which took off beyond anyone's expectations. Without a new #1 episodes to start with, Funimation may not have moved on with EP154 if both shows were under the DB name. In Japan, the name was changed to allow the show to be marketed better and maybe even get a better budget, something that wouldn't have happened without the name change.

Without the illusion of a new series Funimation would have either stuck with Dragon Ball and it would eventually find an audience or give up it let the license expire and some other company like Pioneer or Saban would have picked it up.

Dragon Ball couldn’t find an audience was basically a self fulfilling prophecy on Funimation’s end. They skipped ahead after only airing the first 13 episodes (the least action-y portion of the series) and then only gave it a second go after they dubbed the Cell Saga and with Toonami promoting it as some Muppet Babies type spin off prequel and early Dragon Ball being tonally different than Z (even more with Funimation’s complete reversioning of Z compared to the comparatively faithful treatment of DB) it lead to your average Toonami Z viewer dismissing it.

Ironically Funimation could have skipped ahead to the Red Ribbon saga if they wanted a more action-y starting point and then aired the first 29 episodes or so later on as the “The Lost episodes” which is basically what they did with GT

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

The name change to Z has been really destructive in the long run from a historical perspective. If the anime was all called Dragon Ball from start to finish then I think the early stuff would be in much better shape worldwide.

There's also an equal chance that without Z, the franchise would've never gotten as popular as it has. In North America for example, DB failed to get off the ground (which wasn't its fault) and they jumped straight to Z which took off beyond anyone's expectations. Without a new #1 episodes to start with, Funimation may not have moved on with EP154 if both shows were under the DB name. In Japan, the name was changed to allow the show to be marketed better and maybe even get a better budget, something that wouldn't have happened without the name change.

Without the illusion of a new series Funimation would have either stuck with Dragon Ball and it would eventually find an audience or give up it let the license expire and some other company like Pioneer or Saban would have picked it up.

Dragon Ball couldn’t find an audience was basically a self fulfilling prophecy on Funimation’s end. They skipped ahead after only airing the first 13 episodes (the least action-y portion of the series) and then only gave it a second go after they dubbed the Cell Saga and with Toonami promoting it as some Muppet Babies type spin off prequel and early Dragon Ball being tonally different than Z (even more with Funimation’s complete reversioning of Z compared to the comparatively faithful treatment of DB) it lead to your average Toonami Z viewer dismissing it.

Ironically Funimation could have skipped ahead to the Red Ribbon saga if they wanted a more action-y starting point and then aired the first 29 episodes or so later on as the “The Lost episodes” which is basically what they did with GT

I mean, the Red Ribbon arc onward is where it really begins to pick up from an action standpoint so in theory they could have started there and perhaps done a recap episode or something like how they did with GT to make up for skipping the first sixteen episodes initially. Especially even more so with the Piccolo Diamao and 23rd Budokai arcs where the story begins to feel more tonally similar to Z. Another irony in the decision the skip the majority of the original series after episode 13 is the initial plan before being scrapped was for the 1995 dub to go for 26 episodes up through near the end of the 21st Budokai or more specifically the episode where Goku begins his match with Roshi who is disguised as Jackie Chun.

[funrush]

A 4kUHD release is probably the next time Funi will rerelease the show, aside from maybe a general release of the 4:3 Collector BD.

[KBABZ]

The name change to Z has been really destructive in the long run from a historical perspective. If the anime was all called Dragon Ball from start to finish then I think the early stuff would be in much better shape worldwide.

There's also an equal chance that without Z, the franchise would've never gotten as popular as it has. In North America for example, DB failed to get off the ground (which wasn't its fault) and they jumped straight to Z which took off beyond anyone's expectations. Without a new #1 episodes to start with, Funimation may not have moved on with EP154 if both shows were under the DB name. In Japan, the name was changed to allow the show to be marketed better and maybe even get a better budget, something that wouldn't have happened without the name change.

When it comes to DB's popularity, or lack thereof, I blame the companies behind the franchise for marketing Z as the main and sometimes only part of the franchise that mattered, not the name change. Had the companies treated DB as the first part of the original manga and marketed it like Z, it wouldn't be in the position it's in today. Look at Super, despite being the new part of the franchise, Z and even GT get just as much spotlight worldwide, so there's no reason DB couldn't have gotten the same when Z was the main thing.

Sort of a monkey paw wish then to me. The problem is that Z is way, way, WAY more well-known that the first half (in a way that doesn't plague, say, Naruto), and because of that it's the one presented up front as the "prime" product of the franchise at the expense of pretty much anything else. And IMO Dragon Ball didn't NEED to be re-branded and re-marketed in order to become popular: as we know from the Rewatch thread, Dragon Ball + Z's highest viewership was when the original anime debuted in the first place, so the Z rebrand didn't really do anything productive from that standpoint. Outside of giving us Kageyama and making it easier to introduce in the west (which led to OG DB's proper dub much later), I can't really see any benefit to the rebrand.

Ironically Funimation could have skipped ahead to the Red Ribbon saga if they wanted a more action-y starting point and then aired the first 29 episodes or so later on as the “The Lost episodes” which is basically what they did with GT

They certainly could have marketed it this way, but in reality the Red Ribbon Arc is the XL version of the opening arc; it's still very much about travel and adventure, which isn't really what DBZ is known for, even the Namek arc. Z is more known for the formula of a big bad villain showing up to kick our heroes butts and they have to find out a way to defeat them, which is pretty much how it's been going since Piccolo Daimao showed up.

[MasenkoHA]

They certainly could have marketed it this way, but in reality the Red Ribbon Arc is the XL version of the opening arc; it's still very much about travel and adventure, which isn't really what DBZ is known for, even the Namek arc. Z is more known for the formula of a big bad villain showing up to kick our heroes butts and they have to find out a way to defeat them, which is pretty much how it's been going since Piccolo Daimao showed up.

It has plenty of action. Funimation’s issue with Dragon Ball was that it didn’t have enough action because lord know they bothered to look past the first 13 episodes they dubbed in 1995.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

They certainly could have marketed it this way, but in reality the Red Ribbon Arc is the XL version of the opening arc; it's still very much about travel and adventure, which isn't really what DBZ is known for, even the Namek arc. Z is more known for the formula of a big bad villain showing up to kick our heroes butts and they have to find out a way to defeat them, which is pretty much how it's been going since Piccolo Daimao showed up.

It has plenty of action. Funimation’s issue with Dragon Ball was that it didn’t have enough action because lord know they bothered to look past the first 13 episodes they dubbed in 1995.

Then of course after that along with stopping after episode 13 they didn't come back around to dubbing the original series again until 2001, after the OG in house Z dub was already past the Cell arc and prior to Majin Buu. On TV they went back and re dubbed the first thirteen episodes for airing on Toonami, while home video on both VHS and DVD was just episode 14 onward due to the Kidmark/Trimark/Lionsgate sublicense to the '95 BLT/FUNi's version with the Ocean cast which meant they were off limits from being released uncut and bilingual here until said license expired and reverted back to FUNi in 2009.

[KBABZ]

They certainly could have marketed it this way, but in reality the Red Ribbon Arc is the XL version of the opening arc; it's still very much about travel and adventure, which isn't really what DBZ is known for, even the Namek arc. Z is more known for the formula of a big bad villain showing up to kick our heroes butts and they have to find out a way to defeat them, which is pretty much how it's been going since Piccolo Daimao showed up.

It has plenty of action. Funimation’s issue with Dragon Ball was that it didn’t have enough action because lord know they bothered to look past the first 13 episodes they dubbed in 1995.

It does have action but there's a lot of non-action as well that's more in the adventure funtimes category than the tense laser action that Z is more known for.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

They certainly could have marketed it this way, but in reality the Red Ribbon Arc is the XL version of the opening arc; it's still very much about travel and adventure, which isn't really what DBZ is known for, even the Namek arc. Z is more known for the formula of a big bad villain showing up to kick our heroes butts and they have to find out a way to defeat them, which is pretty much how it's been going since Piccolo Daimao showed up.

It has plenty of action. Funimation’s issue with Dragon Ball was that it didn’t have enough action because lord know they bothered to look past the first 13 episodes they dubbed in 1995.

It does have action but there's a lot of non-action as well that's more in the adventure funtimes category than the tense laser action that Z is more known for.

It doesn't really start to become more similar in tone to Z in that respect as far as tense action goes until around the Piccolo Daimao/23rd Budokai.

[MasenkoHA]

They certainly could have marketed it this way, but in reality the Red Ribbon Arc is the XL version of the opening arc; it's still very much about travel and adventure, which isn't really what DBZ is known for, even the Namek arc. Z is more known for the formula of a big bad villain showing up to kick our heroes butts and they have to find out a way to defeat them, which is pretty much how it's been going since Piccolo Daimao showed up.

It has plenty of action. Funimation’s issue with Dragon Ball was that it didn’t have enough action because lord know they bothered to look past the first 13 episodes they dubbed in 1995.

It does have action but there's a lot of non-action as well that's more in the adventure funtimes category than the tense laser action that Z is more known for.

Sure Dragon Ball didn’t develop the formula and style Z was known for until Piccolo Daimao, maybe the 22nd Budokai but I don’t see that as relevant. Funimation decided that Dragon Ball didn’t have enough action and DBZ was a better fit for the 6-11 boy demo that was watching Power Rangers and X-Men and Superman and Batman. They only had to wait a little past the first 13 episodes they dubbed to see that Dragon Ball had plenty of action.

Z was hardly some non-stop action series.

[kei17]

The benefit of 4K 16mm scan is very limited compared to 35mm, but there are a few instances among commercial releases such as the 4k remaster of The Texas Chain Saw Massacre. However, it's not very realistic to scan and remaster an entire TV series consist of hundreds of episodes in 4K at this point, and even if it really happens in the future, that's not going to be the near future, I suppose. I highly doubt Toei will rescan the old TV series in the first place, though. We should expect Funi to eventually produce a 4K HDR release with the even higher contrast and eye-damaging over-saturation covered with an oil painting filter.

[jaisonas]

The benefit of 4K 16mm scan is very limited compared to 35mm, but there are a few instances among commercial releases such as the 4k remaster of The Texas Chain Saw Massacre. However, it's not very realistic to scan and remaster an entire TV series consist of hundreds of episodes in 4K at this point, and even if it really happens in the future, that's not going to be the near future, I suppose. I highly doubt Toei will rescan the old TV series in the first place, though. We should expect Funi to eventually produce a 4K HDR release with the even higher contrast and eye-damaging over-saturation covered with an oil painting filter.

Theoretically speaking, doesnt a 4k film transfer give room for a proper noise reduction application without losing detail?

[Robo4900]

The benefit of 4K 16mm scan is very limited compared to 35mm, but there are a few instances among commercial releases such as the 4k remaster of The Texas Chain Saw Massacre. However, it's not very realistic to scan and remaster an entire TV series consist of hundreds of episodes in 4K at this point, and even if it really happens in the future, that's not going to be the near future, I suppose. I highly doubt Toei will rescan the old TV series in the first place, though. We should expect Funi to eventually produce a 4K HDR release with the even higher contrast and eye-damaging over-saturation covered with an oil painting filter.

Theoretically speaking, doesnt a 4k film transfer give room for a proper noise reduction application without losing detail?

No.

The damage noise reduction does is roughly equal to the strength of the filter.
The required strength of the filter depends on the amount and fineness of the noise itself.

At a higher resolution, the noise will still be just as fine, and just as present, as in 1080p (though there will probably be additional, finer grain visible too, and thus, more fine detail in the picture, since grains are the celluloid equivalent of pixels; the image on film is formed by the grains being tinted by the exposure and development, the "grain texture" comes from the grains all varying randomly in size, shape, brightness, and every other factor one can imagine), so to get the same level of noise as Funi prefer to have, they would have to apply the filter to a level that gives the same shitty result as they always have, that destroys all detail in the image, and as always, they'll also apply their ugly sharpening filter on top, doing further damage to the image and giving it the signature ugly watercolour look with the washed-out, smeary lineart, and the jarringly sharp, wobbly shading lines, and of course, they'll also apply their usual ruination of the colours of the show.
(In other words: Exactly what Kei said)

As long as Funi are infatuated with the idea of a "grainless film remaster" (which is about as sensible as wanting a "pixel-less TV/monitor"), we will never get anything even approaching good from them.

Though realistically, Funi wouldn't go as far as to rescan the film in 4K. If they want to do a 4K release, they will just upscale their cleaned-up 1080p master, crop it, apply all the shitty filtering they usually apply, and up the contrast even further than they usually have so they can claim they're taking advantage of the full colour gamut.