Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

According to Nagamine; Blue Gogeta and Broly were throwing out attacks that could of wasted each other multiple times. However, he only had those attacks bash each other instead. In order to bring emotional satisfaction to the audience through a breathtaking fight. Since the final attack from Gogeta was going to miss, he felt it would be a let down, if the fight leading up to that point wasn't good.

[Omgzord]

Jesus, is this the highest value in the game so far? IIRC Gogeta had the record with 9800 points.

[p-hyvo]

That really makes no sense, Blue Gogeta and Broly could never be equals

Well, that's Just a card. Nothing of that kind really matters in the true series scaling. The numbers on the cards are really indicative of nothing really, Is like trying ti scale the series basing your thoughts on the TCG cards stats

[p-hyvo]

It seems Bandai’s Dragon Ball Super Warriors Seal Wafer Z 14th set has Goku (Ultra Instinct) and Jiren (surpassed limits) above Broli (Full powered Super Saiyan).

Spoiler:

For context, Broli has 9,600. Goku (Ultra Instinct) varies from 9,400 to 9,700, while Gogeta (SSGSS) varies from 9,600 to 9,800.

Well, that really means nothing. It's Just a card game, it's not to be taken seriously or as a trustworthy source to scale the real series

[Omgzord]

There's a lot of thoughts that went into these cards from seeing past records.

Now, I won't claim that those cards are trustworthy sources or that it has any claim on the main series but you can tell the people making it are putting some thoughts to it if you focus on these numbers. It's not random shit they are just printing mindlessly.

[Hugo Boss]

It seems Bandai’s Dragon Ball Super Warriors Seal Wafer Z 14th set has Goku (Ultra Instinct) and Jiren (surpassed limits) above Broli (Full powered Super Saiyan).

Spoiler:

For context, Broli has 9,600. Goku (Ultra Instinct) varies from 9,400 to 9,700, while Gogeta (SSGSS) varies from 9,600 to 9,800.

Well, that really means nothing. It's Just a card game, it's not to be taken seriously or as a trustworthy source to scale the real series

Who is telling you that? No one is acting like they are the holy grail of powerscaling.

Anyway, that 9,999 sticker is referring to the combined power of Broli and Gogeta clash and it’s likely higher since the device broke.

[wolflonnie]

Pretty curious, how strong do you guys think Cranberry and Boo (post Kai memory) are?

Cranberry should be pretty easy, he was expected to beat namekkians at 1000, yet got trashed when they increased their power to 3000. So around 2000. Considering the timeskip, I feel like he should be at 2500-3000, 4000 max in the Moro arc.

Boo... I think he's around SSGod, based on Vegeta's performance. Vegeta's god form was somehow equal to Moro but had problems reaching him, and when he powered up to Blue, he had no issues until the energy absorbtion. Given that Moro's main gimmick is that and he doesn't really fight at hand to hand, while Boo does, Boo should be around that level to inflict that much damage to Moro.

[Zamasu Black]

Is Jiren stronger than a God of Destruction even before his Super Full Power state at the end?

[Miracles]

Is Jiren stronger than a God of Destruction even before his Super Full Power state at the end?

Yes. The narration about Jiren being stronger than Belmond was there before he let loose his hidden power.

[p-hyvo]

Is Jiren stronger than a God of Destruction even before his Super Full Power state at the end?

Absolutely

[Zamasu Black]

So if normal Jiren is stronger than a God of Destruction and then would be a huge chunk stronger again with his Super Full Power to the point he was a match for Ultra Instinct Goku who made a fool of normal Jiren...

And Broly is only probably stronger than Beerus...

Then how is Jiren definitely not far stronger than Broly? Normal Jiren could be above Broly.

[Hugo Boss]

They are stronger than their respective Gods of Destruction and Jiren gets even stronger through his fight against Goku. It’s not known by how much, but I think it’s safe to assume Jiren is overall stronger than Broli.

[Koitsukai]

So if normal Jiren is stronger than a God of Destruction and then would be a huge chunk stronger again with his Super Full Power to the point he was a match for Ultra Instinct Goku who made a fool of normal Jiren...

And Broly is only probably stronger than Beerus...

Then how is Jiren definitely not far stronger than Broly? Normal Jiren could be above Broly.

Well, yes, it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to conclude Jiren is not stronger. Specially with that massive boost he got.
Back then when Jiren was stated to be stronger than Belmod, Beerus was also placed on the same tier as Belmod.

Even by feats, Broly landed 0 hits while Jiren put MUI Goku in trouble. He also couldn't one-shot SS Gogeta who actually succesfully defended himself from a frontal attack before going blue.

[Zamasu Black]

Well again, they were pretty adamant that Jiren is stronger than a God of Destruction, no maybe or probably about it.

Ultra Instinct Goku was something he made that Jiren look like a chump moving in slow motion.

Then Super Full Power Jiren was about as strong as that later. So he should be a real good chunk stronger than a God of Destruction.

Where Broly was only a probably.

If Beerus and Belmod are about the same then just normal Jiren could be above Broly. Never mind the other form at the end.

[GodVegetto91]

No all it proves is that it can’t go higher than level 9999 from the wafer cards.

If SSJ FP Broly and SSJ Blue Gogeta are both at level 9999 (even though Gogeta is vastly superior), it logically means that you can’t get above level 9999 in the game itself. It’s the highest number.
(I can’t believe i have to explain this).

And yes, Broly is far superior to Jiren, even in his SSJ1 form. This was made evident by the fact that Goku and Vegeta immediately opted to fuse against him, while earlier being totally fine fighting against Jiren just the way they were.

Also, in the movie novel, Frieza stated that “There was no being in existence who could defeat this Broly. Without a doubt. That much was clear to Frieza.”

And he fought Jiren before. So he knows about his strength.

Also, Beerus is the strongest God of Destruction, and far, FAAARRR older and stronger than Belmod. The fact that Goku compared Broly to BEERUS of all Gods of Destruction, proves that Broly is exceptionally powerful!

SSJ Blue Gogeta >>>>>>> Broly >>>>>>> Jiren / MUI Goku.

I still have Beerus beyond all of them, including our beloved SSJ Blue Fusion from the movie. We simply don’t know how powerful Beerus truly is.

This movie showed that Base Gogeta was already above SSJ Blue Goku & Vegeta individually. As evidenced by the fact that he EASILY evaded (and reflected) SSJ Broly’s raging, “intended to kill”, energy blasts. As has been shown all throughout the story, both canon and non canon, Base Fusions are stronger than the individual fusees’ strongest forms.

So Base Gogeta > SSJ Blue Goku.

What is the SSJ Blue multiplier over Base??

Well, it must be very high! In the high end thousands at the least!

So SSJ Blue Gogeta is many many many thousands of times stronger than his Base Form (Base Gogeta!)

SSJ FP Broly was matching that! (Yeah he was getting kicked around, but he survived and fought back).

This proves that SSJ FP Broly is also many thousands of times stronger than Base Gogeta (who is superior to SSJ Blue Goku).

The multiplier of SSJ Blue over Super Saiyan is is still in the thousands aswell! So Broly’s “Full Power” Mode must be thousands of times stronger than his own regular Super Saiyan form aswell! (A power already greater than Jiren’s!)

This movie takes the power creep to a whole new level!

And Beerus is still beyond all of that!

[Kenneth La Torre]

No one has any problem putting Broly below Jiren. It seems to be the norm opinion throughout the fandom.
The only debatable one is Gogeta. I see no problem on people having Gogeta above UI Goku, the same way i see no problem with People having UI Goku above Gogeta. We cant really judge someones power if the opponent they fight doesnt even pose a challenge. His Maximum power is a off yet an unknown. If people want to use stickers that have nothing to do with the canon, then you have Gogetas max at 9,800... the highest so far (along with what i assume is a current blue vegito). But I'm just waiting for official statements regardless of my opinion.

Tho that is no reason to discredit Broly. Being on the level of beerus or probably above is a God class achievement.

[GodVegetto91]

No one has any problem putting Broly below Jiren. It seems to be the norm opinion throughout the fandom.
The only debatable one is Gogeta. I see no problem on people having Gogeta above UI Goku, the same way i see no problem with People having UI Goku above Gogeta. We cant really judge someones power if the opponent they fight doesnt even pose a challenge. His Maximum power is a off yet an unknown. If people want to use stickers that have nothing to do with the canon, then you have Gogetas max at 9,800... the highest so far (along with what i assume is a current blue vegito). But I'm just waiting for official statements regardless of my opinion.

Tho that is no reason to discredit Broly. Being on the level of beerus or probably above is a God class achievement.

Just because many people irrationally believe something, doesn’t make it true (as has been shown all throughout history on this planet). There’s no reason to put Broly below Jiren. The next enemy is always stronger than the last, and Broly has been stated many times to be the strongest person Goku ever fought (even directly being compared to Beerus himself, the strongest God of Destruction), Jiren has never been compared to Beerus in particular. Just “God of Destruction” level. Which could mean anything.
Broly is most definitely superior to Jiren. Read my post right above yours^

[Kenneth La Torre]

No one has any problem putting Broly below Jiren. It seems to be the norm opinion throughout the fandom.
The only debatable one is Gogeta. I see no problem on people having Gogeta above UI Goku, the same way i see no problem with People having UI Goku above Gogeta. We cant really judge someones power if the opponent they fight doesnt even pose a challenge. His Maximum power is a off yet an unknown. If people want to use stickers that have nothing to do with the canon, then you have Gogetas max at 9,800... the highest so far (along with what i assume is a current blue vegito). But I'm just waiting for official statements regardless of my opinion.

Tho that is no reason to discredit Broly. Being on the level of beerus or probably above is a God class achievement.

Just because many people irrationally believe something, doesn’t make it true (as has been shown all throughout history on this planet). There’s no reason to put Broly below Jiren. The next enemy is always stronger than the last, and Broly has been stated many times to be the strongest person Goku ever fought (even directly being compared to Beerus himself, the strongest God of Destruction), Jiren has never been compared to Beerus in particular. Just “God of Destruction” level. Which could mean anything.
Broly is most definitely superior to Jiren. Read my post right above yours^

i read your post and to me it is an illogical mess. I've been here long enough to know about your crazy opinions from the beginning of super, that were, due to time, proven wrong by the show. This is my last reply to you, and i hope others do have a passion to debate with you, but me knowing how bad of a record you had here while debating, I'm just going to be wasting precious time that i can spend arguing with people who actually know how to debate.

[Koitsukai]

The next enemy is always stronger than the last

This is false as a rule of thumb, Hit stated himself that he reached his limit vs SSB Goku and without the time skip he'd have no chance, and until he enhanced his time skip not even with that technique he was a match for SSB. Vegeta also commented on Hit's attacks not being that big of a deal and his speed being nothing he couldn't do himself.
Hit's raw power is below SSB, while Golden Freeza was much stronger than SSB. Hit even with his technique couldn't touch SSB Goku.

Also, quoting a novel? really? over the actual movie? what makes a novel more valid than the actual movie written by Akira Toriyama and produced by Toei Animation?

[GodVegetto91]

No one has any problem putting Broly below Jiren. It seems to be the norm opinion throughout the fandom.
The only debatable one is Gogeta. I see no problem on people having Gogeta above UI Goku, the same way i see no problem with People having UI Goku above Gogeta. We cant really judge someones power if the opponent they fight doesnt even pose a challenge. His Maximum power is a off yet an unknown. If people want to use stickers that have nothing to do with the canon, then you have Gogetas max at 9,800... the highest so far (along with what i assume is a current blue vegito). But I'm just waiting for official statements regardless of my opinion.

Tho that is no reason to discredit Broly. Being on the level of beerus or probably above is a God class achievement.

Just because many people irrationally believe something, doesn’t make it true (as has been shown all throughout history on this planet). There’s no reason to put Broly below Jiren. The next enemy is always stronger than the last, and Broly has been stated many times to be the strongest person Goku ever fought (even directly being compared to Beerus himself, the strongest God of Destruction), Jiren has never been compared to Beerus in particular. Just “God of Destruction” level. Which could mean anything.
Broly is most definitely superior to Jiren. Read my post right above yours^

i read your post and to me it is an illogical mess. I've been here long enough to know about your crazy opinions from the beginning of super, that were, due to time, proven wrong by the show. This is my last reply to you, and i hope others do have a passion to debate with you, but me knowing how bad of a record you had here while debating, I'm just going to be wasting precious time that i can spend arguing with people who actually know how to debate.

It’s only a “mess” to you because you’re incapable of understanding it. Wow, you’re an incredibly hateful person i see. I did not expect this answer i got from you at all. Totally by surprise. I don’t even know you, yet you post this hateful drivel about me. Alright then, i know enough. I’ll simply put you on my ignore list then. No sense trying to talk to any “haters”, (in the literal sense of the word.) Peace!

I didn’t know you held a GRUDGE against me!

To actually “hate” someone for so long, simply because that person has different opinions from yours, or is politically incorrect, is, in my opinion, FAR worse than simple political incorrectness or having different opinions (ones that you may even consider to be out of the norm).

You must really have some issues in real life if you’re this hateful.

You attacked me personally on my character. That’s an ad hominem sort of attack and far worse and hateful then anything i’ve done. I attacked your in-universe dragon ball content opinions. I don’t stay mad or hateful at people. If they give me shit during a debate, then i may give them shit back right here and there, and then immediately forget about it afterwards. That’s the kind of person i am. I don’t take things too seriously. I forgive.