Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
90sDBZ
I Live Here
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:04 pm

Before Goku fights 19, 20/Gero gives a speech about how they were designed to be superior to Goku. For some reason that isn't entirely clear, Piccolo says something along the lines of "You talk as if you were Gero", to which 20/Gero relies by saying "Don't be absurd. I was created by him", or something to that effect.

It's a bit of a curious exchange looking back on it. Firstly why did Piccolo get that impression to begin with? I guess it could be interpreted as Gero's "creation" speaking a little too highly of his maker, but it's still a stretch to explain why Piccolo would come to the notion they're one in the same.

And also why would Gero deny his true identity? I know Toriyama intended for 19 and 20 to be the main villains, but why include this line at all? If he was already planning on 20 being Gero why have him deny it? And if he wasn't yet planning on it then why even mention it?

I'm probably looking too far into it, but it's interesting as no clear reason is ever given for his denial. As I mentioned in the other topic I'm curious about what Toriyama might have done with 19 and 20. Maybe the reason for him hiding his identity was part of some abandoned backstory idea? Probably not but it's fun to speculate.

User avatar
Rory
I Live Here
Posts: 2746
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Rory » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:34 pm

Who knows, maybe Toriyama wasn't intending on it. Maybe Gero was a totally different character that we'd meet later, and the whole 20 = Gero thing was introduced as a means of transitioning to the arc's reboot.

10gigtriforce
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:24 pm

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:48 pm

I'm guessing because its just his brain in there. not his organic body? Unlike 17 an d18.

User avatar
Psajdak
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 496
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Psajdak » Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:51 pm

Well, as far as I remember, 19 always called Gero 20. but 17 and 18 called him Dr. Gero-sama when he woke them up.

Dunno, the whole RRA thing coming back was kinda retcon, anyway.

User avatar
Peach
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:57 am

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Peach » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:18 pm

Where are you getting this info that Toriyama intended 19 and 20 to be the real Androids?

I always hear people say Toriyama said this. Toriyama intended that. Never with anything to back that up.

User avatar
Freeza Soldier #156
Regular
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:41 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Freeza Soldier #156 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:42 pm

Peach wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:18 pm Where are you getting this info that Toriyama intended 19 and 20 to be the real Androids?

I always hear people say Toriyama said this. Toriyama intended that. Never with anything to back that up.
The proof is actually right here on this very website https://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/cell/

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:43 pm

Psajdak wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:51 pm Well, as far as I remember, 19 always called Gero 20. but 17 and 18 called him Dr. Gero-sama when he woke them up.

Dunno, the whole RRA thing coming back was kinda retcon, anyway.
How was it a retcon?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:55 pm

Sounds like foreshadowing to me. I’m sure at that point Toriyama decided 20 would be Gero.

Psajdak wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:51 pm
Dunno, the whole RRA thing coming back was kinda retcon, anyway.
Not really. Goku didn’t kill every last Red Ribbon Army employee several soldiers were seen running. And we saw a lot of the soldiers and what not seriously believed in Commander Red’s New World Order thing, no reason a surviving mad scientist couldn’t have plot revenge for 15 years.

User avatar
90sDBZ
I Live Here
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:00 pm

You have to wonder if Gero was ever aware of Red's true agenda.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:02 pm

90sDBZ wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:00 pm You have to wonder if Gero was ever aware of Red's true agenda.
Red’s personal assistant/closest confidant was not aware I doubt Gero knew.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Not to mention given the RRA's ubiquity, it's silly to think Goku destroyed every remnant of it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
coola
I Live Here
Posts: 3360
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 7:33 am
Location: Poland

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by coola » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:06 pm

I was wondering about that too, maybe he was afraid that if he had to escape, they would have easier time finding him, if they knew he was Dr. Gero? (Bulma knew where his hideout was)
My Twitter: @kamil198811
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:40 pm

Assuming Toriyama intended for them to be the same person from the start, I’m guessing it was just done for the sake of having a dramatic reveal, with no real in-universe reason behind it.

In all honesty though, I’m inclined to think that he didn’t intend that from the start, because if that were the case, then why did he have Trunks talk about how Dr. Gero was killed by his own creations?

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:40 pm

The exchange between Piccolo and 20/Gero happened after their first appearance right? I'm pretty sure Toriyama changed his mind on them after he debuted them when his editor mocked him for having the big bads be a fat china doll and an old geezer. I don't think 20 was suppose to be Gero initially either given that Trunks said both 19 and 20 killed Gero.

User avatar
jjgp1112
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 7478
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Crooklyn

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:57 pm

I don't think he planned on it from the start of the saga, but I think he made up his mind that he would be Gero once he actually designed and debuted #19 and 20. Why else have him be an old geezer?
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:58 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:57 pm I don't think he planned on it from the start of the saga, but I think he made up his mind, that he would be the actual doctor once he actually debuted #19 and 20. Why else have him be an old geezer?
Same reason 19 was a fat china doll?

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:33 pm

Perhaps so they wouldn't concentrate on killing him over 19.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:18 pm

In my best Alec Guinness impression: Cyborg 20 is not Dr. Gero... from a certain point of view.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

SpiritBombTriumphant
Banned
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:28 am

Peach wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:18 pm Where are you getting this info that Toriyama intended 19 and 20 to be the real Androids?

I always hear people say Toriyama said this. Toriyama intended that. Never with anything to back that up.
In addition to the link the other person gave you, note that in the manga, Trunks tells Goku that the androids he speaks of are #19 and #20.

User avatar
90sDBZ
I Live Here
Posts: 2500
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 am
Location: UK

Re: Why did Android 20 deny being Dr Gero?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:04 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:57 pm I don't think he planned on it from the start of the saga, but I think he made up his mind that he would be Gero once he actually designed and debuted #19 and 20. Why else have him be an old geezer?
I remember the anime had that scene during Trunks' monologue, where it shows Gero from behind, still in human form as he gets killed by the Androids (although the "Androids" look nothing like any of the Androids in that scene). It's interesting because Gero's hair in that scene is already long and white like Android 20's.

I'm guessing this bit wasn't in the manga, and was added into the anime after the revelation had already happened in the manga?

Post Reply