Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:57 am

It has always bugged me how Toei re-envisioned BOG & ROF as starting arcs to DBS as opposed to letting the films remain as the official depiction of post-Boo events. What was the point of making the movies in the first place if Toei decided that they were now their own self-contained continuity and that such events had to be tweaked for a new series? Did the arcs really bring enough to the table to justify spending months dedicated to their production & airing? Did we need to see more content & drawn out airtime to make further sense of what was depicted in the movies? Was it really necessary?
The anime arcs are well-made & entertaining, don't get me wrong. I'm just wondering why we need two continuities of the same animation.
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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Grimlock » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:24 am

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:57 am
What was the point of making the movies in the first place if Toei decided that they were now their own self-contained continuity and that such events had to be tweaked for a new series?
I don't think they had already planned to retell the movies by 2013-2014. The question would be more appropriate in the other way around: what was the point of making the retellings in the first place?
theherodjl wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:57 am
Did the arcs really bring enough to the table to justify spending months dedicated to their production & airing?
No.
theherodjl wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:57 am
Did we need to see more content & drawn out airtime to make further sense of what was depicted in the movies?
I would say yes before the release but seeing as how things turned out to be: hell no.
theherodjl wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:57 am
Was it really necessary?
Absolutely not.
theherodjl wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:57 am
The anime arcs are well-made & entertaining,
Are they, though? Feels more like a cheaper version in every category, if you ask me. I know it's not fair compare TV series with the movies, but that's exactly the point. We already got stuff in what, in theory, should be the best way to experience.

The only problem would be the runtime, but if they manage to hire someone who can deliver everything in the required runtime, as well as changing their priorities (instead of making a movie with forty minutes of battle, how about making a movie with forty minutes of... story!?) it shouldn't be a problem.
theherodjl wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:57 am
I'm just wondering why we need two continuities of the same animation.
Three. There's still Toyotaro too.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Desassina » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:53 am

The question that needs to be asked is whether Dragon Ball Super would be a complete series run from beginning to end with the Gods concept or not. The DBS manga is incomplete and begs that you know most of the things that happened elsewhere. In other words: it's for the hardcore fan, and he knows how to pick his entertainment (the usual recommendation that you see online which jumps between media), but not the casual viewer who went on to see DBS: Broly. So yes, Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F had to be adapted into the series so that Beerus and Freeza went from their movie final events to introductory chapters in Dragon Ball Super for later arcs. This is what you can show to someone who has witnessed the 90s anime or casually read the manga without alienating him with most hardcore recommendations, which doesn't rule out watching Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F at some point, because the series airs on TV while the movies are probably paid entertainment. They will have to endure the production values for the sake of content though, the surprise being that even the hardcore fans went through it, and it's made easier for them with the home release. Take what's free and available to hunt down quality.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by mute_proxy » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:11 am

In most regions of the world they don't broadcast anime movies on TV (or cinemas), but show the series. Making the movies a requirement for watching an anime series can be a problem.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:03 am

Absolutely and in case of BoG it dramatically improved on the "movie" version. (In fact BoG arc is my most re-watched ard of DBS!)

You can get away with movies continuing on from TV but not the other way around so I fully expect Broly to be retold or recapped in some degree if DBS returns as a series.

Good example is Kanzenshuu whenever they post something on an on going thing they would always post the same information at the bottom because it could be someone's first time reading.

Also fans online like to act like the retellings were the worst things to happen but they sold incredibly well with the Western releases I remember FUNi's BoG arc sold out before the official release date! Don't forget the movie verisons were not only already readily available but also much cheaper too.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Peach » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:00 am

No. In fact, they could have broken up the movies into a few episodes like Futurama did with its four movies. Why they didn't do that, I don't know.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:55 am

Desassina wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:53 am
The question that needs to be asked is whether Dragon Ball Super would be a complete series run from beginning to end with the Gods concept or not.
Wouldn't it have been easier for the staff and better for the viewers if they just cut the movies into parts with a few added scenes here and there ?

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:59 am

No, they could have just taken the movies and split it up into say, 10 episodes for both movies. Reaniamting them was pointless.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:16 pm

I would say I enjoyed the part of the retellings which added the details of how Vegeta and Goku ended up in Beerus planet and how they developed Super Saiyan Blue. The first Super Saiyan God transformation also felt like a epic moment. That’s about it. A lot of the other things weren’t necessary.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:42 pm

I always thought that they had to "wait" for the manga for new material, so they told the same story again, but I could be wrong, I have no idea about their schedule. Also, they went their own way with the new material introducing SSBKK, etc.

And while we didn't NEED to watch the same movies again, we could've gotten something better. I don't know why they changed things like the location for Bulma's party, but I did like getting more from Beerus and not just 15 minutes or so like in the movie. Also the bridges between Z and BoG, and BoG and RoF weren't bad IMO. It had some nice filler episodes.
The fights themselves could've been taken literally from the movies, cut short, maybe even skipped or whatever, I don't know why they differ from the original source. Specially when the quality was so bad, episode 5 didn't have to be that awful.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by The Undying » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:56 pm

No, and I don't buy for a second that watching the first two movies before moving on to the TV series or reading the manga would have been a problem. Broly hasn't been adapted in any other format, but the target demographic at large is following along just fine. A quick recap/footnote to advertise them while demonstrating their placement in continuity already does the job.

Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' were clearly written to be feature length arcs. They're short stories by nature and in structure, so of course padding them to hell and back to fit an entire anime season would have made them substantially worse.
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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by head_cha_la » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:50 pm

It was Toriyama who decided that these films should be in Dragon Ball Super.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:58 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:42 pm
I always thought that they had to "wait" for the manga for new material, so they told the same story again, but I could be wrong, I have no idea about their schedule. Also, they went their own way with the new material introducing SSBKK, etc.

And while we didn't NEED to watch the same movies again, we could've gotten something better. I don't know why they changed things like the location for Bulma's party, but I did like getting more from Beerus and not just 15 minutes or so like in the movie. Also the bridges between Z and BoG, and BoG and RoF weren't bad IMO. It had some nice filler episodes.
The fights themselves could've been taken literally from the movies, cut short, maybe even skipped or whatever, I don't know why they differ from the original source. Specially when the quality was so bad, episode 5 didn't have to be that awful.
My exact thoughts

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:09 am

It seems to me an absolute stupidity to have to see different means to know what is happening in a story ... the original manga was never like this and was independent of the animated version ..

No, I don't care if it's already been done ... when you see a story you expect to keep an order in its events
the author was the one of the idea and it is understood the reason for this ... having to watch 2 movies to know what happens at the beginning of a story does not make any sense ...

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Mad Swami » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:28 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:09 am
It seems to me an absolute stupidity to have to see different means to know what is happening in a story ... the original manga was never like this and was independent of the animated version ..

No, I don't care if it's already been done ... when you see a story you expect to keep an order in its events
the author was the one of the idea and it is understood the reason for this ... having to watch 2 movies to know what happens at the beginning of a story does not make any sense ...
I agree but the movies already existed and were done with care (BoG more so). I think the redoes put a bad taste in people's mouths

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:53 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:09 am
It seems to me an absolute stupidity to have to see different means to know what is happening in a story. I don't care if it's already been done, when you see a story you expect to keep an order in its events.
the author was the one of the idea and it is understood the reason for this.
The issue isn't deciding to include the 2 stories into Super's narrative, it's the decision to re-animate them despite far superior versions already existing. Why not just do what Boruto did when it retold its movie by cutting them into smaller parts with additional scenes here and there ?
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:42 pm
I always thought that they had to "wait" for the manga for new material.

I don't know why they changed things like the location for Bulma's party.
Toriyama had already given them his draft so it had nothing to do with that as both the anime and manga were doing their own thing.

They needed a simpler location that didn't require much work to animate.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:05 am

If there are people already complaining just to imagine having to watch two mere films and then jumping to anime or manga to see what's next, imagine if they try to follow franchises like Transformers. It would be a nightmare to them... :roll:

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Desassina » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:09 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:11 am
In most regions of the world they don't broadcast anime movies on TV (or cinemas), but show the series. Making the movies a requirement for watching an anime series can be a problem.
This. I didn't see Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F until DBS began to air in my country and the former had to be on a freaking streaming service. DBS: Broly was in the movie theaters. I can only imagine the surprise being bigger with people watching them after the production values that Super went through. Whoa! To this day, the manga cannot be read in my country, still. That's another point towards DBS being run from beginning to end. I will complete my knowledge with whatever it is that people discuss from the manga when I get my hands on it.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Thunderbird » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:44 am

They should have divided the two actual movies up into 20 minutes arc, could have been 5 episodes each. Then the Universe 6 arc wouldn't have looked so awful.

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Re: Did The BOG & ROF Films *Need* To Be Remade As Arcs For DBS?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:12 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:53 am
The issue isn't deciding to include the 2 stories into Super's narrative, it's the decision to re-animate them despite far superior versions already existing. Why not just do what Boruto did when it retold its movie by cutting them into smaller parts with additional scenes here and there ?
Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:28 am
I agree but the movies already existed and were done with care (BoG more so). I think the redoes put a bad taste in people's mouths
1.- in what it represents to script seems better to me ..
because in the series they knew how to fix the scenes of these
2.- They recreated the deleted scenes that could not be included in the movies due to lack of time
3.- the films were also self-contained since it was not known if it would continue after that .. so they had to change to a series format
4.- the fight of goku God and beerus really feels like a fight between gods so there was no doubt about the levels they were reaching
Grimlock wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:05 am
If there are people already complaining just to imagine having to watch two mere films and then jumping to anime or manga to see what's next, imagine if they try to follow franchises like Transformers. It would be a nightmare to them... :roll:
transformers has various medias as "movies"," comic" and "cartoons" because they focus on different characters or others versions of their world also having several generations ... and in many of their cases "fandom" is divided by that situation ...

Dragon ball does not have to be divided in this way because the story is linear ... it does not focus on other characters or another time line
follow the story of goku and his friends

It could be different ..... if it were adapted to movies "jako of patrollman" :think:

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