The Undying wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm
Argumentum ad populum.
At least one other poster seems to have understood my overall point. Why can't you?
and you were the one who used another user's argument instead of using your own arguments so ...
I get it ... and I also disagree because you are comparing 2 totally different situations ... there is no drastic change in tone in their relationship ... you just take seriously a scene that pretends to be funny a lousy argument and it's like taking roshi scenes seriously and saying it's sexual harassment
The Undying wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm
You know, it might be important to actually clarify whether you're talking about the character joking or the scene being a gag, since you seem to be conflating two completely different things and consistently flip-flopping between each one.
I'll go ahead and address both:
"It's just a joke, bro!" isn't a good argument because 18 wasn't joking. She may not have
seriously intended to commit fratricide, but the tone of her (over)reaction was pretty openly aggressive. It was enough to make her husband of several years feel nervous. Her response to 17 is a hostile one; something the timing, context, and camera work are all excruciatingly clear about. That's what I'm referring to.
"It's just a gag, bro!" isn't a good argument because gags obviously needn't impede on whether characters are in-character. Also, it seems to be a common misconception that gags can't be representative of what actually happened in a given story - a notion that Dragon Ball has plainly disproven since day one of its publication. This isn't something like "Arale breaks the planet", it's just flavor text and it's everywhere in the original manga, the Super manga, and a multitude of other shonen franchises. It still happened.
Whether 18 technically meant to kill 17 is irrelevant. I don't care about technicalities. What you appear to be doing is downplaying her combative attitude with her brother in order to shift the argument and dodge my point, since my actual point is more concerned with 18's disposition rather than whatever her specific intent was. That's a strawman. Don't do that.
I refer to what I said above ..
the scene is a joke and it is to refer to the ex-girlfriend of krillin making the situation much more comfortable is the joke why can you not understand a joke that simple ...
I give you an example you have vegeta changing the bra / bura diapers in the manga because bulma forced him to do it and that is against his personality ... but it is a joke it is not destined to be more than that ... and cannot be used for argument because it is not a "serious" situation
The Undying wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm
Bart and Lisa are children. 17 and 18 are grown ass adults.
I really shouldn't have to explain the difference.
and when they show bart and lisa adults in some episodes their interactions do not change because despite the passing of the years the siblings are still siblings an easy message to understand is no different here especially now that they both have "family"
The Undying wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:52 pm
They have a mutual understanding, but they're not attached at the hip. That's the extent of their "humanization".
Exactly as it should be: 17 and 18 are cyborgs, not humans. They were never portrayed as humans, so it doesn't make sense to give them exceedingly more human characteristics than they've been shown to exhibit for the better part of two story arcs. That's completely antithetical to how Toriyama intended them to stand out from the rest of the cast. They're dry, cold, sometimes callous, and often emotionally aloof. They're just not overly affectionate people.
If you want "humanization", you have a large variety of other characters in Dragon Ball to regularly fulfill that role. Most of them do, in fact. You don't need to demand homogeneity out of the cast because you're not personally satisfied with artificial humans acting like artificial humans..
If that were the case, it would not make sense that they had formed a family. Firstly, being so distant from human emotions, it is supposed that they should have developed some change, but it seems that they learned nothing.