"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

DB is making more money right now than it ever did on air, it doesn't need to come back. If the manga is going to be adapted it would've been by now.

Toei's decision to not bring back Super has nothing to do with the manga, it's all about timing and finances. Once the anime does return, there's no reason for them to pass on the manga, as it'll just make them more money then they'd make by not adapting it. Once the manga's been adapted into the anime, Bandai will take the opportunity to include its elements in their various video games and merchandise. Everyone involved with DB will gain nothing but profits through an anime version of Moro, so why would they turn that down ? Please give me a better reason than "I don't like it so the people in charge don't either" as that's what seems to be the logic of people who say it won't get adapted.

[Mister_Popo]

DB is making more money right now than it ever did on air, it doesn't need to come back. If the manga is going to be adapted it would've been by now.

Toei's decision to not bring back Super has nothing to do with the manga, it's all about timing and finances. Once the anime does return, there's no reason for them to pass on the manga, as it'll just make them more money then they'd make by not adapting it. Once the manga's been adapted into the anime, Bandai will take the opportunity to include its elements in their various video games and merchandise. Everyone involved with DB will gain nothing but profits through an anime version of Moro, so why would they turn that down ? Please give me a better reason than "I don't like it so the people in charge don't either" as that's what seems to be the logic of people who say it won't get adapted.

The thing which created a lot of hype within the fandom were those leaked images TOEI dropped days before the actual episode.
The reason why that was kinda successful: simple, fans didn't know what was coming and it made them speculate.
That's all free promotion, popularity and at the end of the day: money. Why wouldn't they suddenly no longer apply that once so successfull tactic if they would choose to resume?
It takes away from the popularity of the core product of the franchise, if we already knew exactly what's coming next.

Toyotaro and some of the fandom may want to see the manga adapted, not sure if TOEI and Toriyama want to do exactly the same thing all over again (something in which they didn't have a substantial footprint) when they have to spend their time and money on a new movie or on the long term 'maybe' a new tv-series.

[Matches Malone]

Toyotaro and some of the fandom may want to see the manga adapted, not sure if TOEI and Toriyama want to do exactly the same thing all over again.

Why wouldn't Toriyama want to see an adaption of a story he himself worked on, with an author he considers his successor ? It seems like every reason given by fans who believe this goes back to "I don't like it, so surely they don't as well". The more material there is to adapt, the more money every company involved makes. That's financially speaking, creatively, it wouldn't make sense to skip it and start the next arc with Goku having the ability to use UI at will, and Vegeta having new abilities out of nowhere. If Toei adapted the movies, they'll adapt this.

[Mister_Popo]

Toyotaro and some of the fandom may want to see the manga adapted, not sure if TOEI and Toriyama want to do exactly the same thing all over again.

Why wouldn't Toriyama want to see an adaption of a story he himself worked on, with an author he considers his successor ? It seems like every reason given by fans who believe this goes back to "I don't like it, so surely they don't as well". The more material there is to adapt, the more money every company involved makes. That's financially speaking, creatively, it wouldn't make sense to skip it and start the next arc with Goku having the ability to use UI at will, and Vegeta having new abilities out of nowhere. If Toei adapted the movies, they'll adapt this.

At first, when the anime stopped, i thought it went on hiatus to fix Supers tight production schedule.
That does not appear to be the case, because they could have fixed those issues by far now.

The manga taking advance as such should be no sure indicator for TOEI not resuming their most successfull series worldwide.
The manga is a sideproduct nowadays and does not bring in the most cash.
It's something to keep us busy. The fact the story is progressing ridiculously slow at the moment is basically an indicator for that. This while the ending of the manga TOP arc had to be rushed in order to start the Moro arc right after Broly was released. That says it all how 'important' the manga really is.

I don't say we are never going to see Moro in any animated way, it's just far from sure, if it happens, it's going to be a classic faithful adaptation. TOEI and/or Toriyama are probably still wanting to make changes if the animated series would resume, or they could end up giving us a short(er) summary of the arc only to resume with brand new content thereafter. In that case they likely still want to retain 'the news value' for the animated content in my opinion.

Super still hasn't returned. If the last 1,5 years has learned us something, it's that nobody exactly knows what's going on inside the fandom.
I don't want to spread hate or resentment against Geekdom101, i don't hate the man, but i simply don't believe there is someone from TOEIs senior or animation staff, who knows something substantially reliable and concrete about the franchises future and is willing to basically sacrifice his job for a Youtuber in order to speak freely about it without permission. TOEI is able to keep their gates closed if they really want, otherwise we had known more by now.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

DB is making more money right now than it ever did on air, it doesn't need to come back. If the manga is going to be adapted it would've been by now.

Toei's decision to not bring back Super has nothing to do with the manga, it's all about timing and finances. Once the anime does return, there's no reason for them to pass on the manga, as it'll just make them more money then they'd make by not adapting it. Once the manga's been adapted into the anime, Bandai will take the opportunity to include its elements in their various video games and merchandise. Everyone involved with DB will gain nothing but profits through an anime version of Moro, so why would they turn that down ? Please give me a better reason than "I don't like it so the people in charge don't either" as that's what seems to be the logic of people who say it won't get adapted.

The anime is the main product pretty much everything is done with that in mind the new colourful forms, designs, brining back shoulder pads, loose obi belts etc. Toei are not gonna allow something to simmer for 2 years and then adapt they run the risk of not many people having interest since they know what will happen even if people aren't following the manga 1:1 like myslef I still see it plastered all over my TL you still get articles etc. DBS constantly broke streaming sites with that many people eager, would that have happened if say UI was revealed first in the manga? Absolutely not.

The manga completely skipped Broly which backs my point up exactly because the movie just came out and was soon to be overseas in the next coming months, they clearly didn't want the manga to be involved with the movies promotional cycle for a reason.

[VegettoEX]

Ultra Instinct was revealed first in Xenoverse 2 ahead of the anime.

The whole “main product” talking point (which I’m probably extremely responsible for?) is completely irrelevant and doesn’t even make sense to bring up with the current state of the franchise’s production. No single version is a complete product and I would wager the rights-holders have no idea what they’re doing or how to handle this unprecedented situation.

[Mister_Popo]

Ultra Instinct was revealed first in Xenoverse 2 ahead of the anime.

The whole “main product” talking point (which I’m probably extremely responsible for?) is completely irrelevant and doesn’t even make sense to bring up with the current state of the franchise’s production. No single version is a complete product and I would wager the rights-holders have no idea what they’re doing or how to handle this unprecedented situation.

If there had been no anime or Broly movie after the two first revival-movies (only a manga and Heroes), would the sales numbers of the franchise have been what they are today?

What brings the most money into the drawer however also costs the most money to make. They know that the anime has the most promo value, but they don't have to rush anything at this point, considering sales are still high without it.

Other possible reasons for the long sleeping phase that were mentionned in this thread, are:

- utter mismanagement (would they be making so much money in the first place if that were the case?)
- time to fix Supers tight production schedule and up the quality of writing and animation (which should be done by now, by a long range, the new character-designs, which have proven to be successfull, are already there since Broly)
- Toriyama not having finished a story yet (although the man has finished Brolys script more than 2 years (or even 2,5 years) ago and basically only has to write or approve a basic plot outline and make some sketches)
- Toyotaro having to take a head start and taking over as the lead writer (thise while far from everyone is convinced Toyotaro is the new Toriyama as far as writing is concerned)

For me those things alone being the main reason not to invest in a highly successful multimillion-making franchise feel less convincing. But, nobody knows exactly what's going on, i guess never say never.
The fact they are making enough money without having to rush in an anime or even a movie (what Baggie says) does however make more sense to me from a business perspective.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Ultra Instinct was revealed first in Xenoverse 2 ahead of the anime.

The whole “main product” talking point (which I’m probably extremely responsible for?) is completely irrelevant and doesn’t even make sense to bring up with the current state of the franchise’s production. No single version is a complete product and I would wager the rights-holders have no idea what they’re doing or how to handle this unprecedented situation.

I was moreso talking about when the half version got revealed during the double special.

I wouldn't say it's really unprecedented I don't think, I think it's as simple as they aren't creatively ready yet for another (animated) project & the franchise currently makes enough money for them to be allowed that time. Video games keep pumping out DLC, the smartphone games consistently gets crossed promoted with the merch so they're also able to keep thing relevant that way.

An example that illustrates my point during the peak of DBS in 2017 a SSGSS prize figure was released to very low case orders, one gamestations IIRC only ordered like 19 cases that very same gamestations chain for this March's SSGSS Goku ordered over 150! It's gotten to the point where DB now seems to have higher priority than OP when it comes to merch, which is pretty mind blowing.

[Miracles]

Ultra Instinct was revealed first in Xenoverse 2 ahead of the anime.

The whole “main product” talking point (which I’m probably extremely responsible for?) is completely irrelevant and doesn’t even make sense to bring up with the current state of the franchise’s production. No single version is a complete product and I would wager the rights-holders have no idea what they’re doing or how to handle this unprecedented situation.

Interesting. I don't know where people get this "TOEI TV series is the prime product" for DBS.
They have been missing in action for what...A few years now?

[Mister_Popo]

Ultra Instinct was revealed first in Xenoverse 2 ahead of the anime.

The whole “main product” talking point (which I’m probably extremely responsible for?) is completely irrelevant and doesn’t even make sense to bring up with the current state of the franchise’s production. No single version is a complete product and I would wager the rights-holders have no idea what they’re doing or how to handle this unprecedented situation.

Interesting. I don't know where people get this "TOEI TV series is the prime product" for DBS.
They have been missing in action for what...A few years now?

I meant it's the animated content that generates the most publicity worldwide. Not the manga.
For the time being the only animated content that's scheduled is the movie.
There is no animated content in the sense of an anime, and we don't even know for sure if it even will return.

I don't think we had much much action in the sense of story progression for the last 2 years.
It is progressing as slowly as a snail on a hotter summers day actually.
I don't say, there always was happening that much during the anime run of Super and the events thereafter in Broly, but during that 2,5 years period still an awful lot more happened or was at least shown than what we have seen recently in the manga.
So it seems at times there is animated content the story seems allowed to progress more rapidly.

[VegettoEX]

Interesting. I don't know where people get this "TOEI TV series is the prime product" for DBS.
They have been missing in action for what...A few years now?

Again, I'm not sure if I can or should take the credit for it, but people sure like to blame me for it when it doesn't line up with whatever point they're making!

My description of it that way was from back in 2015, when Dragon Ball Super was announced as a television series, and only as a television series. That was followed up by the announcement of the manga as a "comicalization"... a comic in a different-than-DB's-original magazine that sped through important details, skipped an entire story arc (for extremely legitimate reasons), and was not being drawn by the original author.

(Note that "comicalization" is the same expression they used for the Resurrection 'F' manga, though I admittedly can't necessarily speak to its specific usage throughout the entire history of all manga production. Also note that the news announcement we translated there about the manga starting up... uhh... ends by promoting the television series. I mean, of course it would, but still.)

Anyway, I stand by all that analysis and description I did back then and continue to do now, but it's just that... well, the Super anime didn't contain all the information it needed to contain to be a wholly-complete product (even if it's minor stuff like "Hey, uhh, so why are Pilaf & co. babies?"), the manga skips a whole story arc and film (oh yeah there's also a stand-alone film), and now the TV series is done and the manga is continuing off on its own.

Nothing like this has ever happened with Dragon Ball before, and none of my describing it in any of those ways is inherently a promotion or condemnation of its content: it just all is what it is. I think there's absolutely no longer anything productive in saying "main product" about any aspect of it; I did once, but no longer do based on what I know, what I've seen, and what the reality of the production is.

[JulieYBM]

Relegating the comicalization to V-JUMP feels like a clear sign that the animation side of the franchise is the 'main product'. Even now, the franchise doesn't feel focused or geared towards the comic as the lead. There doesn't really feel like a main, guiding force to the franchise right now. The video games are doing two or three different things right now and there's a few different comics. That seems to be it, nothing as Earth-shattering as a new animated series or film.

[Miracles]

Interesting. I don't know where people get this "TOEI TV series is the prime product" for DBS.
They have been missing in action for what...A few years now?

Again, I'm not sure if I can or should take the credit for it, but people sure like to blame me for it when it doesn't line up with whatever point they're making!

My description of it that way was from back in 2015, when Dragon Ball Super was announced as a television series, and only as a television series. That was followed up by the announcement of the manga as a "comicalization"... a comic in a different-than-DB's-original magazine that sped through important details, skipped an entire story arc (for extremely legitimate reasons), and was not being drawn by the original author.

(Note that "comicalization" is the same expression they used for the Resurrection 'F' manga, though I admittedly can't necessarily speak to its specific usage throughout the entire history of all manga production. Also note that the news announcement we translated there about the manga starting up... uhh... ends by promoting the television series. I mean, of course it would, but still.)

Anyway, I stand by all that analysis and description I did back then and continue to do now, but it's just that... well, the Super anime didn't contain all the information it needed to contain to be a wholly-complete product (even if it's minor stuff like "Hey, uhh, so why are Pilaf & co. babies?"), the manga skips a whole story arc and film (oh yeah there's also a stand-alone film), and now the TV series is done and the manga is continuing off on its own.

Nothing like this has ever happened with Dragon Ball before, and none of my describing it in any of those ways is inherently a promotion or condemnation of its content: it just all is what it is. I think there's absolutely no longer anything productive in saying "main product" about any aspect of it; I did once, but no longer do based on what I know, what I've seen, and what the reality of the production is.

Ah, I see. Thanks for that. So based on past knowledge, the TV and manga was placed in a column. Now the science is updated, Shouldn't be labeled as such anymore.

Ultra Instinct was revealed first in Xenoverse 2 ahead of the anime.

The whole “main product” talking point (which I’m probably extremely responsible for?) is completely irrelevant and doesn’t even make sense to bring up with the current state of the franchise’s production. No single version is a complete product and I would wager the rights-holders have no idea what they’re doing or how to handle this unprecedented situation.

Interesting. I don't know where people get this "TOEI TV series is the prime product" for DBS.
They have been missing in action for what...A few years now?

I meant it's the animated content that generates the most publicity worldwide. Not the manga.
For the time being the only animated content that's scheduled is the movie.
There is no animated content in the sense of an anime, and we don't even know for sure if it even will return.

I don't think we had much much action in the sense of story progression for the last 2 years.
It is progressing as slowly as a snail on a hotter summers day actually.
I don't say, there always was happening that much during the anime run of Super and the events thereafter in Broly, but during that 2,5 years period still an awful lot more happened or was at least shown than what we have seen recently in the manga.
So it seems at times there is animated content the story seems allowed to progress more rapidly.

Considering the fact that the anime was weekly and the manga monthly. Naturally more would happen from TOEI.

[Mister_Popo]

'Main product' is not what a certain individual may prefer or see as the only correct version of facts.
That's not how i meant it anyways.
I was just referring to movies and series as being the stuff that potentially generates the most intrest / hype for the story worldwide.
There are basically three versions of the main continuity right now: movie, tv-series and manga.
Let it be there is no accurate version and taken into account there are different versions of the same continuity, why should the manga suddenly be taken as standard from which everything else is adapted, if that hasn't been done before since the revival began, and takes away from the news value of the animated stuff?
Toriyama himself stated there would be things in the manga that wouldn't be present as such in the animated version.
Did he meant temporary (viewing point when the tv-series ended) or permanent? We don't know, but it might be possible either way.

Besides there are still too many differences between those different versions of the same continuity in order to suddenly make one consequent unity from it. It would take a lot of retconning / adapting in those different media to do so.

It's not like we are still in the 80s.
If there are going to be new movies and tv-series, they might take ideas from the manga, but it would surprise me if they would literary adapt it. I don't see Toyotaro making a head start a real argument for TOEI not bringing the anime back for the time being. Moreover it does not give any proof the anime tv-series will return. They might start cashing in with movies every three years, but in that case those movies will be the thing that will create the most hype and money, with the manga just filling in the gaps, together with Heroes. It may be that some peoples hopes are for the manga to be a sign on the wall the anime once will return (which they may have as far as i'm concerned), but that's basically just wishful thinking without any real sign of reliability.

[Miracles]

I get you Mister_Popo. I'm not accusing you of anything. I just wanted to know how the label in general came into being. VegettoEX helped me out.

[Mister_Popo]

I get you Mister_Popo. I'm not accusing you of anything. I just wanted to know how the label in general came into being. VegettoEX helped me out.

I agree there is no official one and only version of the main continuity.
If there is one medium Toriyama seems the most involved nowadays, it's the movies.
But that's also the continuity that's the most incomplete on its own.

I didn't felt accused nor did i want to make a statement about which version of the continuity should be the one and only standard. I basically only wanted to pointed out, for the fans that have high hopes the anime will return because of the manga still being ongoing, that could be tricky, because the manga may very well be something to keep us busy untill the next movie. It's not something that's necessarily there to become adapted like a traditional manga.

[Skar]

AnimeAjay posted this in a Fan Works thread. I thought it was relevant to post here because it's the last update we've had since Toei said they were working on a new movie sometime last year.

Watched it all. Was like going through some crazy Vietnam flashbacks. What an ordeal. I left a comment, but I'll just repost the general sentiment here:

It's largely a good video, but I disagree with the "One Piece is to blame" conclusion. The One Piece TV series definitely had nothing to do with it, since there's no crossover in staff there beyond Nagamine who was never working on any DBS sequel in the first place (he said as much in an interview). Now that Stampede is out and it's possible to see how much everyone did, there's no way there was any last-minute shifting of staff there. All the big boys from DB did so much that there's not a chance they were pulled into that movie last minute. It's so not feasible.

Some info that wasn't included in the video but I have shared before: Kitaro was supposed to end last year but ended up being extended - that was info provided by a staff member on the show. No idea when it was decided that they'd continue it onward, but if there were ever any plans for it to be replaced again by Super, they must have happened and been scrapped a long time ago. As far as World Trigger and Dragon Quest go, they're comprised of Super's staff, so there's straight up nothing in production for a DB TV anime.

The last word I have heard on anything DB-related was from a DBS writer who said:

"When we started Dragon Ball Super, Toei Animation thought it could be made easily. Because they have made it before and have succeeded. But that was a mistake. They did not make enough preparations, which caused trouble many times. And they negatively affected the overall quality. As you know, the quality of Dragon Ball Super was low. Three story arcs were needed to rebuild it. Toei Animation has learned a lesson. Dragonball is not an easy title, so it cannot be made without enough preparation. They need to have enough time to make it again. Please think positively that this year is absolutely necessary for preparation."

So yeah, wouldn't expect anything for a long while. Nobody available, on slots available. F in the chat, boys.

[Miracles]

The last word I have heard on anything DB-related was from a DBS writer who said:

"When we started Dragon Ball Super, Toei Animation thought it could be made easily. Because they have made it before and have succeeded. But that was a mistake. They did not make enough preparations, which caused trouble many times. And they negatively affected the overall quality. As you know, the quality of Dragon Ball Super was low. Three story arcs were needed to rebuild it. Toei Animation has learned a lesson. Dragonball is not an easy title, so it cannot be made without enough preparation. They need to have enough time to make it again. Please think positively that this year is absolutely necessary for preparation."

So yeah, wouldn't expect anything for a long while. Nobody available, on slots available. F in the chat, boys.

No surprises there. A producer said the same thing concerning production of Super before.
Even Toriyama himself complained about the quality of TOEI.

I think it is a good thing, considering this, that we let TOEI take their time and wait.

[Grimlock]

Well, hopefully they take this "preparation" to also come up with actual stories while paying greatly attention to major details (like aging the characters). Otherwise none of this will be worth again.

[JulieYBM]

Shitting bricks about character ages won't do any good if the storylines aren't good. I'm really hoping the next series pulls a GeGeGe no Kitarou (2018) and comes up with episodic scripts that they can stockpile for between story arcs. I want to see the characters do more than fight four fuckin' enemies across 300 episodes ala Dragon Ball Z. I want more stuff like the original episodes in the 1986 series and the Saiyan arc or Fake Namek arc. Redo the Afterlife Tournament arc as a series of episodic plots instead of a fucking tournament where you can only have battle scenes done with next to no drawings.