The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Triggered Vegeta]

• Super Hearts vs max power Berserk SS Kale

• Metal Cooler (vs Cumber) vs TGolden Freeza (Broly)

• Final Mira vs Toppo

• Base Kefla vs Koichiarator

• Hit and Dyspo (can both access the fullest of their power and abilities) vs Halo form Merged Zamasu

• Fin absorbed Mira vs Ultimate Gohan (post-ToP, anime)

• Prime Moro vs GGA Ultra Pinich

• Wrathful II Broly vs LSS4 FP XBroly

• Makyuka XYi Xing Long vs SSB KK×10 Goku

• Kamioren vs Spirit Bomb SS2 Rage FTrunks

. Super Hearts beats Kale

. Metal Cooler one shots Frieza to Oblivion. Performed very well against Cumber who rivals SSB Vegito level in base.

. Not sure how strong Mira is

. Koichiarator. Did well against 3 SSB level threats. Base Kefla at most is as strong as a fresh SSG Goku imo.

. The team loses, even if they have the advantage. They can't do anything about Zamasu's immortal body.

. Not sure who this is so skip.

. Who is Ultra Pinich? Skip

. Not sure how strong LSS4 FP XBroly is. Skip

. Not sure who Makyuka XYi Xing Long is? Is this Xeno Omega Transcended Demon God form? If so, Goku loses.

. If Trunks can land the blow, he wins. Spirit sword has more than enough power to kill Kamioren who doesn't have an immortal body.

[DBZ Macky]

• Super Hearts vs max power Berserk SS Kale

• Metal Cooler (vs Cumber) vs TGolden Freeza (Broly)

• Final Mira vs Toppo

• Base Kefla vs Koichiarator

• Hit and Dyspo (can both access the fullest of their power and abilities) vs Halo form Merged Zamasu

• Fin absorbed Mira vs Ultimate Gohan (post-ToP, anime)

• Prime Moro vs GGA Ultra Pinich

• Wrathful II Broly vs LSS4 FP XBroly

• Makyuka XYi Xing Long vs SSB KK×10 Goku

• Kamioren vs Spirit Bomb SS2 Rage FTrunks

Interesting matches.

1. Hearts' gravity burst should be capable of pinning Kale down easily. After that, Super Hearts being strong enough to contend with SSB Goku means he should be able to land a decisive blow on Kale and win.

2. Metal Cooler could contend with an opponent who could take on Vegito. Freeza gets bullied by his big brother.

3. This is a close match. Mira was on par with SS4 Xeno Goku, who was slightly weaker than SSB Goku.
So Toppo being on par with the SSBs means he should have a higher Powar Levul than Mira, but it'd be a close fight since Mira has so many techniques up his sleeve, while Toppo has the Justeece Flash. It could go either way, but I like Mira more, so Mira wins.

4. Depends on if we're talking Manga Kefla or Anime Kefla. Anime Kefla wins, Manga Kefla loses.
Koichi is a reliable guy, and it took Gohan's fully charged Kamehameha to defeat him, but he didn't really have much of an offensive presence. It was stated to be only around 1000% stronger than its components iirc, so it could be a Magetta type deal, where its just super bulky. All Kefla needs to do is use that spinning Beyblade Jutsu that she used against UI Goku, which should be strong enough to send Koichiarator to the next dimension.

5. Hit should be able to trap Zamasu in his time cage long enough for someone capable to do something about it. Unfortunately, I don't think Dyspo fills that role, neither of them can actually do any damage to Zamasu.

6. I'm not sure how strong Base Fin is supposed to be, but his Ultimate Evolution was strong enough that I think Mira-Fin could be stronger than Mira (Final Form). Mira wins imo.

7. This is an interesting fight. I don't think Moro is quite on Beerus's level without Magic, so Pinich might have a much higher Powar Levul, but Moro can easily fix that. GGA Pinich wins the fight, but ends up reverting to an unseen Base Form and becomes Moro's Dinner.

8. Broly wins
Xeno Broly should win, DBS Broly needs Super Saiyan.

9. Xeno Yi Xing Long was defeated by SS3 Gohanks iirc, and even Makyouka Demigra didn't actually have any incredible showings. Even regular SSB Goku might take this.

10. Trunks make quick work of Kamioren, unless we're talking Universe Seed Kamioren, in which case Trunks learns that even the power of friendship has its limits.

[Koitsukai]

I would like try to some more versus matches...

1. Goku (post-Saiyan arc, healed; can only go up to Kaioken x3), Gohan (from Ginyu-Goku fight), and Krillin (from Ginyu-Goku fight)

vs

Vegeta (from Recoome fight)

vs

Zarbon (monster form), Dodoria, and Ginyu-Goku

2. Tao Pai Pai (from RRA arc) vs Akkuman (no Devilmite beam) and Mummy-kun

3. Goku (maintainable Super Kaioken; Cell Games) vs Dabura

1) Goku comes out as the strongest, if he got a zenkai similar to Vegeta then he is around 13-15,000, with KKx3 he has no match.
Gohan and Krilin can take care of Ginyu, Vegeta easily disposes of Dodoria. Goku and Vegeta take out Zarbon together without trouble, and then Goku fucks Vegeta up. Without a tail he is fucked.

2) Baba's fighters are no match for Tao Pai Pai, Akkuman needs the Devilmite beam, with it he wins.

3) Goku. Super Kaioken should be like SS2, and we know Dabura couldn't finish SS Gohan.

Should I have stipulated different conditions then? What if Goku was only limited to Kaioken x2 and the Dabura in question being from the future timeline we see in Super? Do you think that changes the odds any or is the end result still the same

With KKx2 things are more even, yes. Goku should not be clearly above Vegeta. I still see them working together to clean up the plate and be able to have their rematch in "peace". A KK burst should take down Dodoria easily, while Vegeta shouldn't have much trouble with Zarbon. Goku KKx2 and Vegeta sounds like a hell of an even fight, Gohan and Krilin's intervention would tilt the scale, Vegeta mistaked Gohan for Goku before the Ginyu arrived, so Krilin could stay behind. The thing is Goku wouldn't let them intervene, and Vegeta eventually wins because KKx2 will run out and it only helps Goku match Geets. Of course if Gohan steps in, it's a done deal.

And I don't think Future Dabura was stronger or weaker than his DBZ counterpart. Super Kaioken should do what SS Gohan couldn't. Fun tip: to me Cell Games Goku and early Buu arc Gohan are dead even.

To be fair, Babidi killed both of them without any hesitation. It seemed to me that Spopovich and Yamu were "chosen" because they'd have an easier time blending with the crowd of the Tenkaichi Budokai since they look just like regular (very buff) people.

Oh, and Spopovich actually can use Ki Blasts as he does so while he escapes from the tournament grounds. Rather, it's Pui-Pui who I don't recall even using a proper Ki Blast in the Manga.

I forgot about Spopovich, yeah. And Pui Pui does use a ki blast when he is ordered to kill Yamu, like a sniper.

• Super Hearts vs max power Berserk SS Kale

• Metal Cooler (vs Cumber) vs TGolden Freeza (Broly)

• Final Mira vs Toppo

• Base Kefla vs Koichiarator

• Hit and Dyspo (can both access the fullest of their power and abilities) vs Halo form Merged Zamasu

• Fin absorbed Mira vs Ultimate Gohan (post-ToP, anime)

• Prime Moro vs GGA Ultra Pinich

• Wrathful II Broly vs LSS4 FP XBroly

• Makyuka XYi Xing Long vs SSB KK×10 Goku

• Kamioren vs Spirit Bomb SS2 Rage FTrunks

1) Hearts. He fought a stronger SSB Goku, while Kale got one-shot by a heavily supressed Jiren.

2) Cooler takes his little brother's toys and breaks them in front of him.

3) pass, I don't fully understand game scaling nor feel they are consistent.

4) I guess Koichiarator because he was forcing Ultimate Gohan, pretty close to blue. Kefla peaks at SSG.

5) They can't kill Zamasu, so they eventually lose when they force him to his corrupt form.

6) pass

7) pass

If SS4 Broly is high blue level then he wins after a long fight.

9) pass

10) Kamioren required SSBE, a power that defeated a hakaishin, so I don't think Spirit Trunks has a chance.

[ZombieVito]

I would like try to some more versus matches...

1. Goku (post-Saiyan arc, healed; can only go up to Kaioken x3), Gohan (from Ginyu-Goku fight), and Krillin (from Ginyu-Goku fight)

vs

Vegeta (from Recoome fight)

vs

Zarbon (monster form), Dodoria, and Ginyu-Goku

2. Tao Pai Pai (from RRA arc) vs Akkuman (no Devilmite beam) and Mummy-kun

3. Goku (maintainable Super Kaioken; Cell Games) vs Dabura

Only way I can see Goku losing is if he can't maintain KKx3 yet.
Vegeta loses badly. He needed trickery to get the upper hand against Zarbon on their rematch.
Tao Pai Pai loses after a good fight.
Dabura wins with small difficulty thanks to Goku's skill.

• Super Hearts vs max power Berserk SS Kale

• Metal Cooler (vs Cumber) vs TGolden Freeza (Broly)

• Final Mira vs Toppo

• Base Kefla vs Koichiarator

• Hit and Dyspo (can both access the fullest of their power and abilities) vs Halo form Merged Zamasu

• Fin absorbed Mira vs Ultimate Gohan (post-ToP, anime)

• Prime Moro vs GGA Ultra Pinich

• Wrathful II Broly vs LSS4 FP XBroly

• Makyuka XYi Xing Long vs SSB KK×10 Goku

• Kamioren vs Spirit Bomb SS2 Rage FTrunks

Kale can't even beat SSG Goku. Regular Heart one shots.
Cooler.
Toppo.
Kefla would need Super Saiyan to win.
Zamasu kills them both. Zamasu is multiple times stronger than Golden Freeza so Dyspo's speed should amount to nothing. Zamasu also knows about Hit so he should counter his time abilities well. I don't think he would even need to go Corrupted.
Gohan.
I have no idea.
Broly.
I have no idea.
Trunks I guess.

[Koitsukai]

SS3 Dragon Fist from M13, who can it kill?
- Boohan
- Zamasu (before he suscribed to Godtube)
- ToP SS2 Caulifla (anime and manga)
- DBS base Broly
- Majuub (Baby arc)
- ToP 17 (manga)

1st Omen Goku's last stand, the flying fist that Jiren blocked when Goku fell out of the form, who can it KO? how much damage it deals? for the stronger characters, pretend Goku shoots a KHH too.
- Black Rose
- Halo Zamasu (no immortality)
- ToP Hit
- Super Hearts (the one that fought SSB Goku).
- Empowered Saganbo
- BoG Beerus
- ToP Beerus
- ToP SSBKKx20 Goku (yeah)
- Broly movie Super Gogeta
- SS4 Gogeta
- SS Kefla

SSB Vegeta's Final Flash vs Jiren, vs:
- Black Rose
- RoF Golden Freeza
- SS4 Gogeta
- Merged Zamasu (no immortality)
- BoG Beerus
- Corrupted Zamasu (no immortality. The attack goes after Vegito defuses and Trunks fights him but before he does the sword thing)

[Angelus]

SSJ Vegeta VS SSJ Future Trunks and Piccolo
All during Android Saga (pre-ROSAT)

[Berserker1921]

SS3 Dragon Fist from M13, who can it kill?
- Boohan
- Zamasu (before he suscribed to Godtube)
- ToP SS2 Caulifla (anime and manga)
- DBS base Broly
- Majuub (Baby arc)
- ToP 17 (manga)

1st Omen Goku's last stand, the flying fist that Jiren blocked when Goku fell out of the form, who can it KO? how much damage it deals? for the stronger characters, pretend Goku shoots a KHH too.
- Black Rose
- Halo Zamasu (no immortality)
- ToP Hit
- Super Hearts (the one that fought SSB Goku).
- Empowered Saganbo
- BoG Beerus
- ToP Beerus
- ToP SSBKKx20 Goku (yeah)
- Broly movie Super Gogeta
- SS4 Gogeta
- SS Kefla

SSB Vegeta's Final Flash vs Jiren, vs:
- Black Rose
- RoF Golden Freeza
- SS4 Gogeta
- Merged Zamasu (no immortality)
- BoG Beerus
- Corrupted Zamasu (no immortality. The attack goes after Vegito defuses and Trunks fights him but before he does the sword thing)

Ssj3 Goku stops at Boohan

UIO Goku was Fighting against a suppressed Jiren. Who probably was using 10-30% of his power. And the fighter claimed before then. That he was the strongest warrior they had ever seen.

Goku stops at Saganbo.

Vegeta stops at corrupted Zamasu.

[dragonball0900]

Piccolo vs Android 17 (Moro Saga)

Who do you think wins?

I will go with Piccolo on this one. In the manga, 17 wasn't anything special. He was only slightly above SSJ3 tier and that was it. Somewhere in the wide gap between SSJ3 and SSG tier is where ToP 17 was sitting. He wasn't Blue tier like in the anime at all.

Goku directly stated that Gohan AND Piccolo were drastically stronger compared to what they were before. And the two performed much better against Saganbo than Androids 17 and 18 did.

It's clear who is stronger between Piccolo and 17 in the Moro Saga, specially since Piccolo (and Gohan) trained very hard during those two months leading up to Moro's arrival on Earth. Gohan was also directly stated to be the strongest person on Earth without Goku and Vegeta, which further indicates that 17 was nothing special in the manga.

[Angelus]

Android Saga SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Future Trunks, Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien VS 25th WMAT SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks
[No Ki attacks. No familial concern. No sword. No Tribeam. No Solar Flare. No whistling. No psychological warfare or whatever verbal tactics can be used on children]

[dragonball0900]

Android Saga SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Future Trunks, Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien VS 25th WMAT SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks
[No Ki attacks. No familial concern. No sword. No Tribeam. No Solar Flare. No whistling. No psychological warfare or whatever verbal tactics can be used on children]

Goten stomps them all.

A heavily suppressed ki blast from SSJ Trunks was able to scare Android 18 (who is already above the Z fighters you mentioned here). Goten and Trunks should be really strong in the Buu Saga even before the RoSaT.

[Lionel]

Android Saga SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Future Trunks, Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien VS 25th WMAT SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks
[No Ki attacks. No familial concern. No sword. No Tribeam. No Solar Flare. No whistling. No psychological warfare or whatever verbal tactics can be used on children]

Absent the Mafuba or Kikoho, I think the Saiyan kids win here. I feel the circumstances are similar to the problem faced with battling the cyborgs together -- one might be defeatable by themselves but putting them together and anyone who isn't close enough to pressure one while the other is handled will see the larger team ultimately fail.

[p-hyvo]

I would like try to some more versus matches...

1. Goku (post-Saiyan arc, healed; can only go up to Kaioken x3), Gohan (from Ginyu-Goku fight), and Krillin (from Ginyu-Goku fight)

vs

Vegeta (from Recoome fight)

vs

Zarbon (monster form), Dodoria, and Ginyu-Goku

2. Tao Pai Pai (from RRA arc) vs Akkuman (no Devilmite beam) and Mummy-kun

3. Goku (maintainable Super Kaioken; Cell Games) vs Dabura

R1 in base Gohan Is stronger, but Goku wins via kk. Considering the boost Vegeta got, I'd put that Goku around 10'800 pl
Same for Vegeta and zarbon , looses in base but wins via kk

R2
Tao Wind against mummy, if gets cocky gets exploded by akkuman

R3 darbula scales from super perfect cell, so he wins no context

[Grand Marshal 1]

Golden Metal Cooler (the one who defeated SS3 Cumber that was on par with GoD Toppo) vs Prime Moro

Does Moro need to eat 7-3 to win? Can he even absorb Cooler's power since he is an android Empowered by the Big Gete Star?

Assuming Moro does eat 7-3, how will the match proceed?

Personally I'm inclined to give it to Moro. Golden Metal Cooler is around SS3FP Cumber level imo. Very high GoD tier. While Moro is a decent above GoD tier.

But this is more of an endurance fight I guess.

[pepd]

How strong do you think/feel Cell would be after training and with a new form?
Cell vs “SSBE”
Cell vs Broly
Cell vs Jiren
Cell vs Beerus

[Triggered Vegeta]

Golden Metal Cooler (the one who defeated SS3 Cumber that was on par with GoD Toppo) vs Prime Moro

Does Moro need to eat 7-3 to win? Can he even absorb Cooler's power since he is an android Empowered by the Big Gete Star?

Assuming Moro does eat 7-3, how will the match proceed?

Personally I'm inclined to give it to Moro. Golden Metal Cooler is around SS3FP Cumber level imo. Very high GoD tier. While Moro is a decent above GoD tier.

But this is more of an endurance fight I guess.

Isn't the scaling in SDBH like way higher than DBS tho? Pretty sure Cooler would kill Moro.

Base Cumber is SSB Vegito level... A much stronger version of Vegito than the one from the DBS manga who rivals Beerus. Cooler even in base could swap hands with SS3 Cumber although at a disadvantage. Base cooler should be GOD tier.

Golden Metal Cooler bodied Cumber which should far exceed Beerus. I don't see Current Moro being many times stronger than Beerus.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Golden Metal Cooler (the one who defeated SS3 Cumber that was on par with GoD Toppo) vs Prime Moro

Does Moro need to eat 7-3 to win? Can he even absorb Cooler's power since he is an android Empowered by the Big Gete Star?

Assuming Moro does eat 7-3, how will the match proceed?

Personally I'm inclined to give it to Moro. Golden Metal Cooler is around SS3FP Cumber level imo. Very high GoD tier. While Moro is a decent above GoD tier.

But this is more of an endurance fight I guess.

Isn't the scaling in SDBH like way higher than DBS tho? Pretty sure Cooler would kill Moro.

Base Cumber is SSB Vegito level... A much stronger version of Vegito than the one from the DBS manga who rivals Beerus. Cooler even in base could swap hands with SS3 Cumber although at a disadvantage. Base cooler should be GOD tier.

Golden Metal Cooler bodied Cumber which should far exceed Beerus. I don't see Current Moro being many times stronger than Beerus.

CC cast in Heroes is post-ToP.

Cumber is strong, but not as strong as people think.

Golden Great Ape Cumber was not enough for Vegito Blue.

SS3FP Cumber with Super Hearts and Halo Zamasu could not defeat Super Full Power Jiren (who shouldn't be stronger than his ToP counterpart).

Super Hearts and Cumber were defeated by Jiren, Hit and Golden Metal Cooler in the game.

So rly, he isn't much stronger. Cooler or Cumber for that matter.

[ZombieVito]

SS3 Dragon Fist from M13, who can it kill?
- Boohan
- Zamasu (before he suscribed to Godtube)
- ToP SS2 Caulifla (anime and manga)
- DBS base Broly
- Majuub (Baby arc)
- ToP 17 (manga)

1st Omen Goku's last stand, the flying fist that Jiren blocked when Goku fell out of the form, who can it KO? how much damage it deals? for the stronger characters, pretend Goku shoots a KHH too.
- Black Rose
- Halo Zamasu (no immortality)
- ToP Hit
- Super Hearts (the one that fought SSB Goku).
- Empowered Saganbo
- BoG Beerus
- ToP Beerus
- ToP SSBKKx20 Goku (yeah)
- Broly movie Super Gogeta
- SS4 Gogeta
- SS Kefla

SSB Vegeta's Final Flash vs Jiren, vs:
- Black Rose
- RoF Golden Freeza
- SS4 Gogeta
- Merged Zamasu (no immortality)
- BoG Beerus
- Corrupted Zamasu (no immortality. The attack goes after Vegito defuses and Trunks fights him but before he does the sword thing)

He kills no one. Boohan can regenerate and Zamasu is over 100 times stronger than this Goku.
It's impossible to know since he was losing that power by the second. If he was fresh then he beats everyone there except ToP Beerus.
We don't know if Corrupted Zamasu was losing power or not so I'm going to stop him there.

SSJ Vegeta VS SSJ Future Trunks and Piccolo
All during Android Saga (pre-ROSAT)

This is a very interesting fight. Vegeta has the upper hand in power but Piccolo has the skill and the teammate. It can go either way.

Piccolo vs Android 17 (Moro Saga)

Who do you think wins?

I will go with Piccolo on this one. In the manga, 17 wasn't anything special. He was only slightly above SSJ3 tier and that was it. Somewhere in the wide gap between SSJ3 and SSG tier is where ToP 17 was sitting. He wasn't Blue tier like in the anime at all.

Goku directly stated that Gohan AND Piccolo were drastically stronger compared to what they were before. And the two performed much better against Saganbo than Androids 17 and 18 did.

It's clear who is stronger between Piccolo and 17 in the Moro Saga, specially since Piccolo (and Gohan) trained very hard during those two months leading up to Moro's arrival on Earth. Gohan was also directly stated to be the strongest person on Earth without Goku and Vegeta, which further indicates that 17 was nothing special in the manga.

17 was SSB tier as well in the manga. Goku says as much.

I would like to say Piccolo but the thing is we don't know. Toyotaro is a terrible writer and made this vague as hell.

Piccolo in the anime went from Boo arc SS2 tier to current base tier by training with Ultimate Gohan for a day so maybe when the anime adaptation comes (I hope vastly improved by Toei) then we can have out answer.

Android Saga SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Future Trunks, Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien VS 25th WMAT SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks
[No Ki attacks. No familial concern. No sword. No Tribeam. No Solar Flare. No whistling. No psychological warfare or whatever verbal tactics can be used on children]

Without those restrictions team A could manage something since the kids skill is absolute garbo but with them then they lose.

How strong do you think/feel Cell would be after training and with a new form?
Cell vs “SSBE”
Cell vs Broly
Cell vs Jiren
Cell vs Beerus

Freeza managed to reach Blue tier so I guess Cell could reach SSBE, probably.

[dragonball0900]

17 was SSB tier as well in the manga. Goku says as much.

I don't think 17 was SSB tier, given that it was stated by Piccolo that Gohan was the strongest fighter on Earth without Goku and Vegeta, and Gohan was still below MSSB tier (which means, not on Goku or Vegeta's level) as stated by Krillin in the ToP. That means Gohan was the strongest fighter without the two saiyans, and Android 17 should be much weaker than him in the manga, and that is shown by him and Piccolo holding their own much better against Saganbo than both androids after training (logically 17's power should also be higher in the Moro saga since he always gets stronger from fighting poachers), so I doubt 17 was intended to be that strong in the manga like he was in the anime (the anime, that has more power scaling issues than the manga). Not to mention that Goku can't sense 17's ki to gauge his strength properly. All he knows is that 17 can at least hold his own, which is why he made that statement, but that doesn't mean he was SSB tier.

[ZombieVito]

I don't think 17 was SSB tier, given that it was stated by Piccolo that Gohan was the strongest fighter on Earth without Goku and Vegeta, and Gohan was still below MSSB tier (which means, not on Goku or Vegeta's level) as stated by Krillin in the ToP. That means Gohan was the strongest fighter without the two saiyans, and Android 17 should be much weaker than him in the manga, and that is shown by him and Piccolo holding their own much better against Saganbo than both androids after training (logically 17's power should also be higher in the Moro saga since he always gets stronger from fighting poachers), so I doubt 17 was intended to be that strong in the manga like he was in the anime (the anime, that has more power scaling issues than the manga). Not to mention that Goku can't sense 17's ki to gauge his strength properly. All he knows is that 17 can at least hold his own, which is why he made that statement, but that doesn't mean he was SSB tier.

Goku literally said 17 was almost as strong as them (Him and Vegeta) so there's no room for discussion.

Gohan is indeed stronger than 17 but both are Blue tier.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Golden Metal Cooler (the one who defeated SS3 Cumber that was on par with GoD Toppo) vs Prime Moro

Does Moro need to eat 7-3 to win? Can he even absorb Cooler's power since he is an android Empowered by the Big Gete Star?

Assuming Moro does eat 7-3, how will the match proceed?

Personally I'm inclined to give it to Moro. Golden Metal Cooler is around SS3FP Cumber level imo. Very high GoD tier. While Moro is a decent above GoD tier.

But this is more of an endurance fight I guess.

Isn't the scaling in SDBH like way higher than DBS tho? Pretty sure Cooler would kill Moro.

Base Cumber is SSB Vegito level... A much stronger version of Vegito than the one from the DBS manga who rivals Beerus. Cooler even in base could swap hands with SS3 Cumber although at a disadvantage. Base cooler should be GOD tier.

Golden Metal Cooler bodied Cumber which should far exceed Beerus. I don't see Current Moro being many times stronger than Beerus.

CC cast in Heroes is post-ToP.

Cumber is strong, but not as strong as people think.

Golden Great Ape Cumber was not enough for Vegito Blue.

SS3FP Cumber with Super Hearts and Halo Zamasu could not defeat Super Full Power Jiren (who shouldn't be stronger than his ToP counterpart).

Super Hearts and Cumber were defeated by Jiren, Hit and Golden Metal Cooler in the game.

So rly, he isn't much stronger. Cooler or Cumber for that matter.

That's actually wrong, hearts never powered up against jiren when fighting with cumber and zamasu, it was just base hearts.

And went hearts left cumber and zamasu vs jiren Jiren wasn't winning even against cumber and zamasu. And super hearts and cumber took on also Goku and Vegeta as well