Well yeah. Goku & Vegeta really messed up this time however because they made all of their usual mistakes and then crafted a rather weak solution to boot, almost as though they were actually trying to let Moro win. Its a little refreshing to see a villain finally get ahead for once but at the same time, its disappointing that it is the result of Goku & Vegeta being more incompetent than they ordinarily can be.miguelnuva1 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:22 pmYou litterly just described them from the Buu saga onward. This behavior simply got worse in Super.theherodjl wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:53 am All of this shit could've been avoided had Goku & Vegeta not fucked around in the first place.
They initially didn't go after Moro at full power. They decided to fight one-on-one. They (unknowingly)allowed Moro to absorb their energy. They came so underprepared that Moro was able to get the upperhand and get his wishes. They didn't try to fuse and instead wanted to beat Moro in their own, individual ways. The training they underwent wasn't enough. They allowed Moro to make a getaway and reobtain his power and gain new abilities by eating 7-3. And they developed no contingency in case Moro might have something else up his sleeve.
As much as Goku & Vegeta are touted as being geniuses in battle, I don't know how they could've done worse against this particular opponent. Their victory at the ToP and against Broly seems to have inflated their egos enough to delude them into thinking Moro was just another opponent.
"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
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Trust me, there are plenty of ways they can make this worse, the first of which telling Krillin to give Moro a senzu bean because it wouldn't be a "fair fight" with them getting healed by Dende.theherodjl wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:53 amAs much as Goku & Vegeta are touted as being geniuses in battle, I don't know how they could've done worse against this particular opponent.
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I mean, the entire future multiverse was wiped out because Goku forgot to bring the mafuba seal, so really it should not be surprising that once again their incompetence turns against them.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Given that my post was at the end of the last page, I’m gonna repost it here. Its kinda long so I’ll put it in Spoiler as to not blow out the current topic.
Spoiler:
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Honestly, a good portion of events could've been prevented if our hero's were a bit more pragmatic and less stubborn. This is simply another one of those times, seriously, do they forget to use their brains at times?SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:57 pm I mean, the entire future multiverse was wiped out because Goku forgot to bring the mafuba seal, so really it should not be surprising that once again their incompetence turns against them.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
The best way I can see Moro Dying (The best way to kill him off In my own opinion) is to have Vegeta in his evolution of Blue form create an attack using Spirit separation and focusing it one punch (Similar to movie 8's ending) impaling Moro73 causing all the souls moro has ever devoured come out of him and return to their place of origin regardless of how long they've been dead or stuck inside of him this will then cause Moro de-age backwards from old to a molecule level and then just poof out of existence (Similar to Janemba's death in movie 12)
BUT the twist would be that Moro devoured some really evil possibly even stronger foes than him and they're now back in U7
I think this could keep things interesting going forward in Super after this Saga
BUT the twist would be that Moro devoured some really evil possibly even stronger foes than him and they're now back in U7
I think this could keep things interesting going forward in Super after this Saga
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I would prefer if the released souls ganged up on Moro and blew him up or something like that. If there is anyone who truly deserves the kill on Moro, it is the multitude of souls (innocents or otherwise) that were consumed by him.
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I hope after his death that the souls are released, their long gone at this point but innocent or not they deserve to go to the afterlife and not be trapped in Moro's body.SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:15 pm I would prefer if the released souls ganged up on Moro and blew him up or something like that. If there is anyone who truly deserves the kill on Moro, it is the multitude of souls (innocents or otherwise) that were consumed by him.
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I could see that happening, though I figure they would want to give these souls the chance to live their life fully. In which case they should find a way to release the souls before killing Moro, otherwise they would die. Just like how 17 died when Cell self-destructed.Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:22 pmI hope after his death that the souls are released, their long gone at this point but innocent or not they deserve to go to the afterlife and not be trapped in Moro's body.SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:15 pm I would prefer if the released souls ganged up on Moro and blew him up or something like that. If there is anyone who truly deserves the kill on Moro, it is the multitude of souls (innocents or otherwise) that were consumed by him.
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If your talking about Cell I've come around in that as I've seen a really good video explaining how giving Cell the senzu actually helped Gohan in the long run. It offered an entirely new view on Goku's decision.Matches Malone wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:25 pmTrust me, there are plenty of ways they can make this worse, the first of which telling Krillin to give Moro a senzu bean because it wouldn't be a "fair fight" with them getting healed by Dende.theherodjl wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:53 amAs much as Goku & Vegeta are touted as being geniuses in battle, I don't know how they could've done worse against this particular opponent.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
At the end of the day I can see Merus or Vegeta doing the Kai Kai Matoru technique on Moro73 and that'll be how they finish him but between those 2 it'd most likely be Merus sacrificing his godly power and status as an angel sticking to being a Galactic Patrol AgentSupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:24 pmI could see that happening, though I figure they would want to give these souls the chance to live their life fully. In which case they should find a way to release the souls before killing Moro, otherwise they would die. Just like how 17 died when Cell self-destructed.Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:22 pmI hope after his death that the souls are released, their long gone at this point but innocent or not they deserve to go to the afterlife and not be trapped in Moro's body.SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:15 pm I would prefer if the released souls ganged up on Moro and blew him up or something like that. If there is anyone who truly deserves the kill on Moro, it is the multitude of souls (innocents or otherwise) that were consumed by him.
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I just hope for our sake Perfect Moro doesn't have some last stage ultimate final form that make's his current form look cute by comparison. We all know the moment we think Moro's dead, the fucker is either A. going to regenerate or B. have magic be used as an excuse for his plethora of abilities and power ups.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Perhaps this is just misguided optimism but I feel like this is the last upgrade for MoroFemme Fatale Kikaza wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:48 pm I just hope for our sake Perfect Moro doesn't have some last stage ultimate final form that make's his current form look cute by comparison. We all know the moment we think Moro's dead, the fucker is either A. going to regenerate or B. have magic be used as an excuse for his plethora of abilities and power ups.
He already seems pretty much “unbeatable” at this point so I think anything more will be overkill
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Zamasu proceeds to create infinite clones of himself after being sliced, the hero's think they won only for the bastard to to create more versions of himself. Zamasu would've won and succeed in multiple timelines had it not been for Goku's Zeno Button and caused Zeno to nuke the multiverse. Anime wise Zamasu BECOMES the multiverse because his soul wants to become 'justice and order'. Zamasu was the definition of unbeatable in both versions, because how do you stop endless clones or attack the multiverse unless your Zeno(a multiverse busting child) Overkill in dragon ball doesn't matter to writers if it makes a good story to them.Kinokima wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:26 pmPerhaps this is just misguided optimism but I feel like this is the last upgrade for MoroFemme Fatale Kikaza wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:48 pm I just hope for our sake Perfect Moro doesn't have some last stage ultimate final form that make's his current form look cute by comparison. We all know the moment we think Moro's dead, the fucker is either A. going to regenerate or B. have magic be used as an excuse for his plethora of abilities and power ups.
He already seems pretty much “unbeatable” at this point so I think anything more will be overkill
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
To be fair I am pretty sure Vegeta thought he won too. It was the perfect technique to counter Moro until Moro got a major upgradeFemme Fatale Kikaza wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:32 pmZamasu proceeds to create infinite clones of himself after being sliced, the hero's think they won only for the bastard to to create more versions of himself. Zamasu would've won and succeed in multiple timelines had it not been for Goku's Zeno Button and caused Zeno to nuke the multiverse. Anime wise Zamasu BECOMES the multiverse because his soul wants to become 'justice and order'. Zamasu was the definition of unbeatable in both versions, because how do you stop endless clones or attack the multiverse unless your Zeno(a multiverse busting child) Overkill in dragon ball doesn't matter to writers if it makes a good story to them.Kinokima wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:26 pmPerhaps this is just misguided optimism but I feel like this is the last upgrade for MoroFemme Fatale Kikaza wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:48 pm I just hope for our sake Perfect Moro doesn't have some last stage ultimate final form that make's his current form look cute by comparison. We all know the moment we think Moro's dead, the fucker is either A. going to regenerate or B. have magic be used as an excuse for his plethora of abilities and power ups.
He already seems pretty much “unbeatable” at this point so I think anything more will be overkill
I mean yeah the Zamasu becomes multiverse was pretty extreme (and stupid in my opinion) but keep in mind that was in a world that could be destroyed. They aren’t in a parallel
Universe here so I feel there is at least some limit to what they can have Moro do
Of course I guess as long as time can be rewound and their are Dragon Balls maybe Moro can do a lot worse to the Earth and it can just be rewritten. Buu certainly did a lot of damage after all.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Goku gave Cell the senzu because he believed in his son's power so much, to taunt Cell. He knew Gohan needed to realize his hidden power in order to beat Cell and that would only happen if Cell was confident and at full power himself.miguelnuva1 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:29 pmIf your talking about Cell I've come around in that as I've seen a really good video explaining how giving Cell the senzu actually helped Gohan in the long run. It offered an entirely new view on Goku's decision.Matches Malone wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:25 pmTrust me, there are plenty of ways they can make this worse, the first of which telling Krillin to give Moro a senzu bean because it wouldn't be a "fair fight" with them getting healed by Dende.theherodjl wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:53 amAs much as Goku & Vegeta are touted as being geniuses in battle, I don't know how they could've done worse against this particular opponent.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
It never really came across as a taunt to Cell honestly.
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It is in the sense that Goku has complete confidence in Gohan.Dragon Wukong wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:15 pmIt never really came across as a taunt to Cell honestly.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
but it is not known how much ... you would be insinuating that vegito would have lost without proof... that is your speculationMechaTrunks wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:23 pmVegetto eating a senzu after fusing to recover his strength is not a theory at all, it's a stated fact in the manga.Tai Lung wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:08 pm That's just a theory that fans invented because the manga totally denies it ...
Vados and Champa said that Kefla was strong enough to beat everyone in the tournament ... (except Jiren) and they saw Goku and Toppo fight in addition to knowing the power of Frieza and other warriors when they saw them fight in that place.
Kaseral with his scouter said that kefla was stronger than kale ..
and the same kefla was not tired and she was very sure to beat everyone
Your personal interpretation of what Vados says doesn't have as much weight as that consolidated fact. Vado's words can be taken in tons of ways other than the one you used (she doesn't even mention Jiren at all).
Kaseral only compared Kefla's power to Kale when she was being beaten by them just a moment before, of course Kefla was above exhausted sub-SSJ levels of power Kale.
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the manga denies it
because you can see zamasu and black merged after fighting being "tired" and they were stronger than before
goku and vegeta merge tired and gogeta crushed broly
it cannot be interpreted otherwise because fordos and champa already know the power of goku after having seen him fight 2 times
they know the power of toppo, Vegeta and frieza the only one they don't know is jiren because it is contained
consider that she have a chance to win despite hitting lost 2 times .. so Kefla > Hit
It is part of the argument in both versions that kefla is the secret weapon and last hope of the U6.
that doesn't make sense if kefla wasn't stronger than an SSB
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
If I remember correctly, Cell was looking for a challenger worthy of his power.Kagari wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:41 pmIt is in the sense that Goku has complete confidence in Gohan.Dragon Wukong wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:15 pmIt never really came across as a taunt to Cell honestly.