"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[DiscountDabi]

Why didn’t Moro eat Goku’s Kamehameha? He came to earth with the explicit goal of eating the energy of the planet and everyone on it. Yet he has been doing a suspiciously small amount of Eating since he got here.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Why didn’t Moro eat Goku’s Kamehameha? He came to earth with the explicit goal of eating the energy of the planet and everyone on it. Yet he has been doing a suspiciously small amount of Eating since he got here.

Cause the writers don't want Moro instantly drain the Earth and kill everyone and they'll let Moro toy around with the Z gang when he should logically kill them to justify the story moving forward.

[DiscountDabi]

Why didn’t Moro eat Goku’s Kamehameha? He came to earth with the explicit goal of eating the energy of the planet and everyone on it. Yet he has been doing a suspiciously small amount of Eating since he got here.

Cause the writers don't want Moro instantly drain the Earth and kill everyone and they'll let Moro toy around with the Z gang when he should logically kill them to justify the story moving forward.

Pretty much. He hasn’t used any of his Magic based fighting techniques since chapter 59, and that was mostly telekinesis. He used the planets energy one time and that was to stop Goku from going in to attack.

And now 7-3’s Ability overshadows his magic. Its almost like Toyotarou is trying to Nerf him.

[Draconic]

This chapter made me worried the arc won’t be adapted. Moro stabbing Goku is a pretty big fucking deal and an important part of the story. And Moro’s stab is basically one of his signature moves.
But I am afraid the anime wouldn’t be allowed to show any of the stabbing scenes, except for the one on Buu and maybe the one on the Namekian (so they would have to cut Moro stabbing Cranberry and Goku) or they would censor them so much it would be stupid.

It was already stupid when Beerus stabbed Goku in the anime retelling and no blood came out, and they censored it with God’s aura and then had the dumb idea to make the wound regen for some reason.

The reason I say this is because if Toyotaro knew this was going to be animated I doubt he would have made such brutal scenes. And the higher ups would have told him to avoid them.

And honestly it would be really sad if the anime just didn’t have any of these scenes if it adapted the arc.
Like, imagine if back in the days they removed the scene where Piccolo blasts through Goku’s chest or any other kind of brutal scene which actually was important in the story. That would have been yikes.

Goku and Vegeta got stabbed plenty by Black and Zamasu. It's not that big a deal.

[Dragon Wukong]

This chapter made me worried the arc won’t be adapted. Moro stabbing Goku is a pretty big fucking deal and an important part of the story. And Moro’s stab is basically one of his signature moves.
But I am afraid the anime wouldn’t be allowed to show any of the stabbing scenes, except for the one on Buu and maybe the one on the Namekian (so they would have to cut Moro stabbing Cranberry and Goku) or they would censor them so much it would be stupid.

It was already stupid when Beerus stabbed Goku in the anime retelling and no blood came out, and they censored it with God’s aura and then had the dumb idea to make the wound regen for some reason.

The reason I say this is because if Toyotaro knew this was going to be animated I doubt he would have made such brutal scenes. And the higher ups would have told him to avoid them.

And honestly it would be really sad if the anime just didn’t have any of these scenes if it adapted the arc.
Like, imagine if back in the days they removed the scene where Piccolo blasts through Goku’s chest or any other kind of brutal scene which actually was important in the story. That would have been yikes.

Goku and Vegeta got stabbed plenty by Black and Zamasu. It's not that big a deal.

A horizontal, relatively flat stab wound is not equivalent to a gaping hole. It's why the Jagdkommando Tri-dagger is considered more deadly than a usual knife. A gaping hole is naturally going to mean more damage and bleed more profusely, and that level of deadliness is clearly the graphic visual intent given by Moro shoving his entire arm through Goku, as opposed to Black stabbing a blade through him. Goku will die from that wound if Dende doesn't reach him. Moro even comments that Goku needs to hold himself together so he can get his meal first.

[SupremeKai25]

I just hope for our sake Perfect Moro doesn't have some last stage ultimate final form that make's his current form look cute by comparison. We all know the moment we think Moro's dead, the fucker is either A. going to regenerate or B. have magic be used as an excuse for his plethora of abilities and power ups.

Perhaps this is just misguided optimism but I feel like this is the last upgrade for Moro

He already seems pretty much “unbeatable” at this point so I think anything more will be overkill

Zamasu proceeds to create infinite clones of himself after being sliced, the hero's think they won only for the bastard to to create more versions of himself. Zamasu would've won and succeed in multiple timelines had it not been for Goku's Zeno Button and caused Zeno to nuke the multiverse. Anime wise Zamasu BECOMES the multiverse because his soul wants to become 'justice and order'. Zamasu was the definition of unbeatable in both versions, because how do you stop endless clones or attack the multiverse unless your Zeno(a multiverse busting child) Overkill in dragon ball doesn't matter to writers if it makes a good story to them.

However with Zamasu it was different, because his arc took place in the Future timeline, which did not have plot armor. If you watch the End of Z, you don't really know if Trunks had his happy ending in the future. That ambiguous situation allowed for Super writers to turn Zamasu into such a powerful entity that the entire multiverse had to be erased to defeat him.

Since Moro is threatening the Present timeline, which we know is fine by End of Z, it's safe to say he won't become as powerful as Infinite Zamasu. No multiversal erasure will be required this time.

[MechaTrunks]

but it is not known how much ... you would be insinuating that vegito would have lost without proof... that is your speculation
the manga denies it

You're the one that's constantly especulating here.
But firstly, if Vegetto had thought that he was able to destroy Zamasu without taking the senzu, he wouldn't have taken it.
But not only did he take it, he also used SSJ Blue agains Zamasu to finish him off because he had to overcome not only Zamasu's power but also his immortality.

The thing here is: a fusion between weakened fighters reuslts in a weakened fusion. And Kale and Caulifla were completely and utterly weakened when they fused (mostly Kale who was at the verge of losing consciousness).

because you can see zamasu and black merged after fighting being "tired" and they were stronger than before
goku and vegeta merge tired and gogeta crushed broly

Are you conveniently forgetting the fact that Fused Zamasu in the manga had the immortality of Zamasu, and that this made him recover instantly from any injury he had endured before?
The only way to damage Zamasu was to attack him so fast that his immortality didn't have time to heal him (which only Vegetto and mastered SSJB Goku were able to do).
Even then, the moment SSJB Goku gave Zamasu an instant to breathe, he instantly healed all his bounds and replenished his power (that's immortality for you, but was Kefla immortal by any chance?).

And regarding Piccolo, he had senzu beans with him and Goku and Vegeta 1 hour of off-screen time to eat it. So nothing there to assume they didn't eat some senzus.

it cannot be interpreted otherwise because fordos and champa already know the power of goku after having seen him fight 2 times
they know the power of toppo, Vegeta and frieza the only one they don't know is jiren because it is contained

But they can't know the power of a weakened fusion until they see it. They speculate about what Kefla could potentially be and they would have been right if Kefla had been the product of a fusion between 100% enraged Kale and Caulifla. But it wasn't, and they didn't have any means to know it until the fight progresed.
If they didn't know the power of Jiren (which they don't since they're not omniscient beings), how do you want them to know the power of a weakened fusion they have never witnessed fighting?

consider that she have a chance to win despite hitting lost 2 times .. so Kefla > Hit

Enraged Kale > Hit in terms of pure brute strength, so yeah, potentially speaking they were true. Just a shame that Kefla had no senzu bean with her like Vegetto!

It is part of the argument in both versions that kefla is the secret weapon and last hope of the U6.
that doesn't make sense if kefla wasn't stronger than an SSB

And now you're just blatantly lying. How could have Kefla been a secret weapon when Caulifla happened to steal Champa's earrings just by chance and didn't know anything about any fusion? And neither Champa nor Vados realised about she having the earrings until they fell in the ground by pure casuality, so it obviously wasn't in their plans either.
They improvised the fusion thing just by pure luck and just because the earrings fell at that point from Caulifla's pants, had they not fallen, both of them would've been eliminated wihout having fused.
Furthermore, using the earrings was prohibited, Zeno just allowed it because he liked it, but it's not like they could've gone with the intention of using the earrings since the beginning.

The manga establishes that 2 weakened fighters fusing result in a weakened fusion, and that's not a theory but a fact.

However with Zamasu it was different, because his arc took place in the Future timeline, which did not have plot armor. If you watch the End of Z, you don't really know if Trunks had his happy ending in the future. That ambiguous situation allowed for Super writers to turn Zamasu into such a powerful entity that the entire multiverse had to be erased to defeat him.

Since Moro is threatening the Present timeline, which we know is fine by End of Z, it's safe to say he won't become as powerful as Infinite Zamasu. No multiversal erasure will be required this time.

Zamasu never required the entire multiverse to be erased in the manga, he never became that "multi-universal ethereal being" that he had turned into in the anime thanks to Toei's magical plot bullshit.
Zeno destroying that entire multiverse just happened to establish that Zeno isn't a plot device that can be used to kill the bad guy just becasue "hey look Zeno'o he's bad and does bad things".
That scene established Zeno as the real danger that he in fact is, and negated any option of repeating the same strategy to defeat any future enemy.
It was in fact a very well written way to let us know that Zeno wasn't a plot device Goku could rely on in future sagas!

Regards!

[DestructoDisc]

Has it been confirmed yet that the manga will still go on even after the Moro arc reaches its conclusion? If so, what do you guys think we will get after this arc?

[MechaTrunks]

Has it been confirmed yet that the manga will still go on even after the Moro arc reaches its conclusion? If so, what do you guys think we will get after this arc?

Mmm something multi-universal related maybe? I hope the manga continues after Moro, it's selling well enough, isn't it?

[mute_proxy]

Has it been confirmed yet that the manga will still go on even after the Moro arc reaches its conclusion? If so, what do you guys think we will get after this arc?

Something grounded. Adventuring, training and it's time for the EoZ to happen, before the next crisis

[emperior]

Has it been confirmed yet that the manga will still go on even after the Moro arc reaches its conclusion? If so, what do you guys think we will get after this arc?

We still don’t know if the manga will go on or not. I hope it does because Toyotaro has improved a lot recently and I don’t want to see Super being over for good until they eventually decide to bring it back.

I hope the next one will be a Toriyama story, and I wouldn’t mind if it involved Goku and Vegeta travelling to other universes or to Sadala. Maybe it will be a story involving Freeza and Broly too?

The best would be for it to finally take place after the End of Z but I doubt it will.

[Matches Malone]

The best would be for it to finally take place after the End of Z but I doubt it will.

I don't know if anyone's brought this up, but do you think they may decide to move into EOZ through a movie first in order to get as many people as possible introduced to the new status quo ?

[emperior]

The best would be for it to finally take place after the End of Z but I doubt it will.

I don't know if anyone's brought this up, but do you think they may decide to move into EOZ through a movie first in order to get as many people as possible introduced to the new status quo ?

Maybe more than a movie a new show? They could even rebrand it, and it could easily start with a brief flashback of End of Z like Super started with a flashback of the battle with Buu in both anime and manga.

As for the manga, they should have the balls to actually have the transition from Super to post-Uub by resuming the original “Dragonball” manga and start from chapter 520. I know purists would hate this though.

Of course this could happen with a new movie too, but I think a new show would be ideal to start fresh with the new status quo.

[Matches Malone]

As for the manga, they should have the balls to actually have the transition from Super to post-Uub by resuming the original “Dragonball” manga and start from chapter 520. I know purists would hate this though.

I'd personally leave the original manga as it, not because I'm a purist or anything, it's just because of how different current DB is from classic DB. I think they should either keep it as Super with a revamped EOZ or just give it its own title.

[Alruneia]

Has it been confirmed yet that the manga will still go on even after the Moro arc reaches its conclusion? If so, what do you guys think we will get after this arc?

There's no confirmation either way as far as I'm aware, but I think it's unlikely that the Moro arc will be the last one, since there's still things left to do. At the very least, Goku still needs to fully master Ultra Instinct, otherwise his journey in Super will be kinda incomplete. (That doesn't have to happen before EoZ, mind you, but it should happen at some point.)

As far as what comes next goes, it's hard to say. Especially since there's allegedly another movie in production... maybe. The unknown status of that movie makes things pretty uncertain, since the manga and the movie will have to fit together in some way. Unless it was cancelled, which is honestly a possibility considering that there's been nothing but radio silence on that end for the last year or however long it's been. In which case the manga can pretty much do whatever.

[TKA]

If I remember correctly, Cell was looking for a challenger worthy of his power.

The interesting thing about Perfect Cell to me is that this isn’t really his character, or at least not all there is to it. Perfect Cell is essentially totally different from the previous 2 forms (I’ll get into the differences between all three another time), so I don’t just call him “Cell”.

But anyway, Perfect Cell doesn’t actually want a challenge. He wants someone he can flaunt his power on. The minute he’s presented with a challenge, he completely breaks down because he’s perfect. He’s a complete narcissist and pretends all he wants is a good challenge.

People tend to say he just becomes Frieza, but Frieza doesn’t even put up that kind of facade; Frieza wants everyone to know they aren’t even in his league and they never will be, whereas Perfect Cell held a tournament to give hope that he could lose. Frieza’s big character flaw is his pride, which is predictated on the idea that nobody is as strong as him. That’s why Goku pissed him off so much; Goku was stronger. But because Frieza is driven by a pride in his power, so this makes him snap and he fights dirtier than ever (blowing the planet up). The same thing later happens when he fights Trunks and realizes Trunks too is stronger than him.

Perfect Cell, on the other hand, refuses to accept that anyone could be stronger than him. The notion is so incomprehensible to him that he reverts to being semi-Perfect Cell because there’s no way anyone could be more powerful than Perfect Cell (yes, yes, I know that in the plot Gohan supposedly punched him so hard he randomly puked up 18; thats not the level of analysis I’m doing). If Perfect Cell was like Frieza, then he would’ve tried to blow up the planet the second he realized Gohan was stronger, but the thought never occurred to Perfect Cell because nobody can be as good as him. It’s very circular logic on his part, but that’s what makes him interesting.

But that’s just a thought.

[Tai Lung]

You're the one that's constantly especulating here.
But firstly, if Vegetto had thought that he was able to destroy Zamasu without taking the senzu, he wouldn't have taken it.
But not only did he take it, he also used SSJ Blue agains Zamasu to finish him off because he had to overcome not only Zamasu's power but also his immortality.

The thing here is: a fusion between weakened fighters reuslts in a weakened fusion. And Kale and Caulifla were completely and utterly weakened when they fused (mostly Kale who was at the verge of losing consciousness).

That vegito do that is not proof of anything ... because he is never seen fighting in that state in question ... from what they explain he did it so that his time limit didn't run out before but that does not reduce power

but again that is a mistake of the manga because other examples shows that fatigue does not reduce power Merged zamasu, kefla and gogeta

Are you conveniently forgetting the fact that Fused Zamasu in the manga had the immortality of Zamasu, and that this made him recover instantly from any injury he had endured before?
The only way to damage Zamasu was to attack him so fast that his immortality didn't have time to heal him (which only Vegetto and mastered SSJB Goku were able to do).
Even then, the moment SSJB Goku gave Zamasu an instant to breathe, he instantly healed all his bounds and replenished his power (that's immortality for you, but was Kefla immortal by any chance?).

Immortality has nothing to do with stamina or loss of energy that is clearly explained that is why this was possible this

zamasu does not have unlimited energy

And regarding Piccolo, he had senzu beans with him and Goku and Vegeta 1 hour of off-screen time to eat it. So nothing there to assume they didn't eat some senzus.

false ... because piccolo denies it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7md5T2P-Ao

But they can't know the power of a weakened fusion until they see it. They speculate about what Kefla could potentially be and they would have been right if Kefla had been the product of a fusion between 100% enraged Kale and Caulifla. But it wasn't, and they didn't have any means to know it until the fight progresed.
If they didn't know the power of Jiren (which they don't since they're not omniscient beings), how do you want them to know the power of a weakened fusion they have never witnessed fighting?

Vados and Champa know potala fusion ... Vados is an angel his knowledge must be comparable to that of whis
you are ignoring that they can feel the ki and god ki .. they know the power of goku, Toppo, frieza because they felt it .. it is something simple that the characters can do from z but with jiren can´t because he was contained in battle ...

Enraged Kale > Hit in terms of pure brute strength, so yeah, potentially speaking they were true. Just a shame that Kefla had no senzu bean with her like Vegetto!

that kefla is not stronger than vegito does not change that the fact that she in the top she was stronger than Goku SSB and by simple logic gohan is also stronger

And now you're just blatantly lying. How could have Kefla been a secret weapon when Caulifla happened to steal Champa's earrings just by chance and didn't know anything about any fusion? And neither Champa nor Vados realised about she having the earrings until they fell in the ground by pure casuality, so it obviously wasn't in their plans either.
They improvised the fusion thing just by pure luck and just because the earrings fell at that point from Caulifla's pants, had they not fallen, both of them would've been eliminated wihout having fused.
Furthermore, using the earrings was prohibited, Zeno just allowed it because he liked it, but it's not like they could've gone with the intention of using the earrings since the beginning.

The manga establishes that 2 weakened fighters fusing result in a weakened fusion, and that's not a theory but a fact.

It is because Champa ordered them to use them when he saw that they had them ... because they did not intend to use them.
something that would not have happened if Champa had not considered that they could win with that.
I never said it would have been planned ....everything else is your invention because again you don't have a single proof

[ZombieVito]

That Hakai shit was so stupid.

It was clearly working on Zamasu but then Beerus confirms it doesn't kill immortals a chapter later.

Classic inconsistent writing of Toyo.

[Dragon Wukong]

That Hakai shit was so stupid.

It was clearly working on Zamasu but then Beerus confirms it doesn't kill immortals a chapter later.

Classic inconsistent writing of Toyo.

It's not an inconsistency. Zamasu would've been reduced to dust but he would've just regenerated after. But Zamasu himself and Goku had no way of knowing that. Beerus just confirmed it later.

[LoganForkHands73]

I can't remember if Kefla ever even fought Goku during the manga's Universe Survival arc. Goku didn't get a single elimination apart from Jiren and even that was with help after everything he tried failed miserably. He spent pretty much the entire tournament harassing this one guy and not contributing in any other fight. It was seriously so bad.

Anyway, I've realised that these manga chapters are usually a rollercoaster of emotions at the very least. Rereading it, I remembered feeling shocked at Goku getting impaled by Moro for example, but everything around those "big" moments were so contrived and unbelievable even on my first reading that it all accumulates in colouring the experience negatively afterwards. Moro simply gets far, far too many "gotcha" moments over the space of one chapter. The problem is that it doesn't really serve any purpose in terms of giving the fight a back-and-forth. He's not turning the fight around in any way, he's just constantly solidifying how much more fucked the heroes are by another arbitrary percentage, as TKA said.

Oh, he's doubled/tripled his power from absorbing Seven-Three! Oh, he can use Seven-Three's copy ability! Oh, he can use Spirit Fission! Oh, he can regenerate! Oh, he can keep Seven-Three's stored moves indefinitely with no time limits on any of them! Oh, he can intercept telepathy! Oh, he can create a massive impenetrable shield!

It's the same issue as that ridiculous scene of Vegeta teleporting to Earth.