Dragon Ball Movies HD Remaster - Amazon Video/Netflix Japan - Discussion Thread

[Lightningexpose]

I'm not sure who's arguing what here, but my opinion on the matter is that yeah making things green is a popular grading style for some reason but sometimes it looks like a technical issue.

I don't have any examples, but if you look at Kai TFC, even though the whole thing has an ugly yellow/green grade throughout the whole thing, sometimes the whites are actually balanced and there's no (strong) green tint on them. Other episodes, along with the yellow/green grade the whites themselves look tinted (like Broly US BD), and I assume that there is a technical issue on some episodes.

If you look at the Trunks TVSP remaster by Toei last year, you'll see the same thing. Whites are more or less balanced but the overall thing has a green/yellow grade...so yeah, it seems to just be that most "colorists" these days are dumbasses who think green looks s0 co0l s0 cinEmAtIC and throw it on. Funnily enough, though, if the whites aren't balanced on that TVSP, the whites are more like red or purple than green...lol

When it's merely a tint, like US BD of Broly, I wouldn't call that a green/yellow grade since it's literally just nothing more than a tint that you can more or less remove by adjusting the RGB levels of your screen.

What TFC, TVSP2 remaster and some of the 2018 Movie remasters suffer from (like DB Mov 3 from top of my head) look to be dumb grading. The other movies I can't tell for sure whether it's a grade or tint, but those look to be more on the too yellow/too orange side than a green tint? Can't remember. But yeah DBS Broly BD looks to be a technical issue (or some preemptive measure to counterbalance an issue with theater screens).

[HakkaiBills93]

I'm not sure who's arguing what here, but my opinion on the matter is that yeah making things green is a popular grading style for some reason but sometimes it looks like a technical issue.

I don't have any examples, but if you look at Kai TFC, even though the whole thing has an ugly yellow/green grade throughout the whole thing, sometimes the whites are actually balanced and there's no (strong) green tint on them. Other episodes, along with the yellow/green grade the whites themselves look tinted (like Broly US BD), and I assume that there is a technical issue on some episodes.

If you look at the Trunks TVSP remaster by Toei last year, you'll see the same thing. Whites are more or less balanced but the overall thing has a green/yellow grade...so yeah, it seems to just be that most "colorists" these days are dumbasses who think green looks s0 co0l s0 cinEmAtIC and throw it on. Funnily enough, though, if the whites aren't balanced on that TVSP, the whites are more like red or purple than green...lol

When it's merely a tint, like US BD of Broly, I wouldn't call that a green/yellow grade since it's literally just nothing more than a tint that you can more or less remove by adjusting the RGB levels of your screen.

What TFC, TVSP2 remaster and some of the 2018 Movie remasters suffer from (like DB Mov 3 from top of my head) look to be dumb grading. The other movies I can't tell for sure whether it's a grade or tint, but those look to be more on the too yellow/too orange side than a green tint? Can't remember. But yeah DBS Broly BD looks to be a technical issue (or some preemptive measure to counterbalance an issue with theater screens).

Yes but even if there is green gradation and simple tint, thoses two are green and that is what i found very curious. i don't say that it's the same things technically but that partially or totally sometimes, i think that somewhere there is a deliberate purpose in the process.

If you take several old show dvd remaster or vhs, you'll get random tint but now it's allways the same tint and as it can't be something random then maybe it's something applied to the footage deliberately.

Maybe green tint is a kind of standard (like you said " to looks s0 co0l s0 cinEmAtIC " ) but some movies sometimes have green tint . like i said star wars 7 was deliberately graded and each scene have his own gradation , but if you take star wars 9. it's allways green and i see no purpose in green colors in star wars movies mostly when older aren't green , white aren't balanced and i don't think that's it's something deliberate but a kind of settings that can be deliberately or accidentaly applied on it

maybe some studios apply this green gradation by altering few hue (so don't alter white balance like in samurai troopers) OR they just throw a green tint filter that will make everything green and that's all

i am not a professionnal nor a specialist, only someone pretty logical using his brain and not talking using his ego like if i am allways right or whatever else but ajay can't say "it's not the same things" without even knowing what happened and why it's allways green.

we all know that movies degrade differrently and when you cc, you need to do it part by part if it's not frame by frame cause of alterations being differrent in every part so it can't be something where human don't have part on it.

my theory about the dragon ball movies is that they didn't correct white balance, so you have the movies with tint and hue degraded like in dbox but i think that on top of that, they have altered hue to get a green result , so if you have nice frames, white is okay but if it's degraded it look green but white aren't balance . it can also explain why in the tvsp2 , you have red colors very very very dark and strange

[Lightningexpose]

It's not always random tint in past stuff. I notice a few same types of tints that used to show up.

once upon a time a lot of anime masters used to always have a blue/cyan tint to them like these examples:

Spoiler:

Then there's usually always brown/red tinted stuff showing up, like these examples:

Spoiler:

Based on those examples, I would assume maybe late 90s stuff were afflicted with brown-ish tints a lot while 80s and early 90s stuff went through some process that led to blue/cyan tints. Maybe green tints are just the new technical issue, I don't know. Just a very loose guess, not a serious theory.


The examples you posted on page 53 are all just wayyy too diverse for me to put them all in the same category and discuss them. Sure, they all have strong green values but each example you posted is so different from one to the next.

[HakkaiBills93]

i didn't wanted to compared them as some are old, some are new, some are deliberate choice etc but i point the similarity between them with the use of green color very abusively and it can't be something unrelated.

I don't say either that ALL new movies use green gradation and all remaster use green tint BUT i noticed that since more than 3-4 years, the green is hugely spread in anime / movies remaster (like bruce lee movies) and the green gradation in some movies

i don't have explanation yet (i send a message to the laboratory in France that did the asterix remaster green tinted to know why but i don't expect an answer)

but i can't accept that cause technically it's not the same things or that in some movies they wanted it, that it's not somewhere related

[Captain Awesome]

I think its lost on some people here that the "masters" they're comparing are from different sources. You can't compare an aged 16mm print with a composite transfer digi-beta tape. There are inherent colour issues associated with each medium.

The Dragon Boxes are actually a good example - the magenta dye on some 16mm film stock tends to be the longest lasting which is why you'll see a red tint throughout most of the series as the other colours fade.

I guess there are some valid points to be made about modern colour grading - but I think that is a separate issue from this topic entirely.

[Lightningexpose]

Is the mention of the digibeta sources in reference to the screen caps I posted?

If so, I wasn’t comparing 16mm film fading to digibeta flaws. Was literally only showing old composite masters to show that the technical processes involved in developing those masters left them typically with either a cyan tint or a brown tint. They don’t look like aged film to me especially considering most of those 90s examples are composite/digibeta masters that were done around the time the anime was produced.

Besides idk if anyone is even concerning themselves with 16mm film and its colour attributes here.

[HakkaiBills93]

I think its lost on some people here that the "masters" they're comparing are from different sources. You can't compare an aged 16mm print with a composite transfer digi-beta tape. There are inherent colour issues associated with each medium.

The Dragon Boxes are actually a good example - "the magenta dye on some 16mm film stock tends to be the longest lasting which is why you'll see a red tint throughout most of the series as the other colours fade".

I guess there are some valid points to be made about modern colour grading - but I think that is a separate issue from this topic entirely.

it's not a separate issue, as you said, "the magenta dye on some 16mm film stock tends to be the longest lasting which is why you'll see a red tint throughout most of the series as the other colours fade". BUT SO explain why actual remasters are green? your comment is irrelevant as you explain why it should turn red magenta tinted but facts are that it's green exactly like actual taste in color grading .

Execpt Lightningexpose that seems to understand what i am talking about , is there someone with a brain and enough logical to understand that it's very curious that aged films are green in actual remasters exactly like actual color grading taste are also green ?


people here seems to think "Oh as color grading is not same as remastering colors, then it's not the same things" but can't understand that if degraded footage turn more and more toward the red like you said so why it's green? suddenly films choose to degrade towards green?
so much nonsense here

[Captain Awesome]

BUT SO explain why actual remasters are green? your comment is irrelevant as you explain why it should turn red magenta tinted but facts are that it's green exactly like actual taste in color grading .

Except the Dragon Box is a remaster? There are blue tinted episodes in DB and green tinted episodes later in Z these aren't grading choices - they're the aging of the film stock.

people here seems to think "Oh as color grading is not same as remastering colors, then it's not the same things" but can't understand that if degraded footage turn more and more toward the red like you said so why it's green? suddenly films choose to degrade towards green?
so much nonsense here

I'm going to assume English is your second language because I am having considerable difficulty finding a consistent thread to follow anywhere in your disjointed stream of consciousness posts. The point I was making is that you can't compare some digi beta footage to some 16mm prints to make your point about colour grading. These colour issues have more to do with the storage medium than anything else.

In the case of the Netflix/Amazon remasters while we don't have any definitive proof - the fact that we have a non-tinted version of Broly points toward the sickly green tint of those and Boo Kai to be less of a conscious choice and more of a calibration/mastering issue. But by all means continue to ramble incoherently.

[HakkaiBills93]

BUT SO explain why actual remasters are green? your comment is irrelevant as you explain why it should turn red magenta tinted but facts are that it's green exactly like actual taste in color grading .

Except the Dragon Box is a remaster? There are blue tinted episodes in DB and green tinted episodes later in Z these aren't grading choices - they're the aging of the film stock.

people here seems to think "Oh as color grading is not same as remastering colors, then it's not the same things" but can't understand that if degraded footage turn more and more toward the red like you said so why it's green? suddenly films choose to degrade towards green?
so much nonsense here

I'm going to assume English is your second language because I am having considerable difficulty finding a consistent thread to follow anywhere in your disjointed stream of consciousness posts. The point I was making is that you can't compare some digi beta footage to some 16mm prints to make your point about colour grading. These colour issues have more to do with the storage medium than anything else.

In the case of the Netflix/Amazon remasters while we don't have any definitive proof - the fact that we have a non-tinted version of Broly points toward the sickly green tint of those and Boo Kai to be less of a conscious choice and more of a calibration/mastering issue. But by all means continue to ramble incoherently.

ABSOLUTELY NOT you are far than what i was saying, i said that before like in dbox , degraded films tends to have various tint very differrent each others but since few years, when you see something remastered unproperly, it's GREEN and ALLWAYS GREEN

Strangely in actual theater production, taste in color grading are GREEN (joker, man of steel, john wick etc) and i can assume it's not random, it's related by a way or another

it doesn't matter if it's a film print or a digibetas or whatever else, degraded medias would have various tint, if you can't explain why degraded medias are allways green now then you absolutely can't reject the theory that by a way or another one, it's related. sometimes i really feel to talk with retarded people

Green tint on dbs can be a calibration issue as much as it can be a deliberate choice to show it in theater, you can't say it isn't only cause it's corrected in home medias , it's like if you said that harry potter 1 4k release being green is a intended colors where it was properly calibrate before.
Matrix is even more green than it was on dvd or bluray etc etc etc

Ajay is locked on "oh green tint is not the same as green color grading " but if he was smart enough he would understand that green tint is not degradation of medias so what is it? why green? why it's the same color as actual color grading taste?

I can assume also that Star wars 9 green tinted all along the movie (white are green the same as dbs movie ) , like first lord of the ring extended bluray is also green tinted AREN't deliberate only a retard can say that

[kei17]

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but there's an update on this topic. The HVC1 (H.265) version is now available on Amazon JP, and it's got better image quality. This must be the best source available so far.

https://imgsli.com/NDQ0ODg
https://imgsli.com/NDQ0ODk

Spoiler:

Video
ID: 1
Format: HEVC
Format/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile: Main@L4@Main
Codec ID: hev1
Codec ID/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration: 1 h 0 min
Bit rate: 8 706 kb/s
Width: 1 920 pixels
Height: 1 040 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 1.85:1
Frame rate mode: Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Standard: NTSC
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0
Bit depth: 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 0.182
Stream size: 3.70 GiB (97%)
Color range: Limited
Color primaries: BT.709
Transfer characteristics: BT.709
Matrix coefficients: BT.709

[KBABZ]

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but there's an update on this topic. The HVC1 (H.265) version is now available on Amazon JP, and it's got better image quality. This must be the best source available so far.

https://imgsli.com/NDQ0ODg
https://imgsli.com/NDQ0ODk

Spoiler:

Video
ID: 1
Format: HEVC
Format/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile: Main@L4@Main
Codec ID: hev1
Codec ID/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration: 1 h 0 min
Bit rate: 8 706 kb/s
Width: 1 920 pixels
Height: 1 040 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 1.85:1
Frame rate mode: Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Standard: NTSC
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0
Bit depth: 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 0.182
Stream size: 3.70 GiB (97%)
Color range: Limited
Color primaries: BT.709
Transfer characteristics: BT.709
Matrix coefficients: BT.709

Ooooh awesome, thanks a lot kei!

[Lightningexpose]

Sorry for bumping this old thread, but there's an update on this topic. The HVC1 (H.265) version is now available on Amazon JP, and it's got better image quality. This must be the best source available so far.

https://imgsli.com/NDQ0ODg
https://imgsli.com/NDQ0ODk

Spoiler:

Video
ID: 1
Format: HEVC
Format/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile: Main@L4@Main
Codec ID: hev1
Codec ID/Info: High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration: 1 h 0 min
Bit rate: 8 706 kb/s
Width: 1 920 pixels
Height: 1 040 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 1.85:1
Frame rate mode: Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Standard: NTSC
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0
Bit depth: 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 0.182
Stream size: 3.70 GiB (97%)
Color range: Limited
Color primaries: BT.709
Transfer characteristics: BT.709
Matrix coefficients: BT.709

From those comparisons, this looks great. Dare I say even comparable to BD-level AVC grain. I hope Amazon Japan eventually get the tv specials in HD and do this h265.

I worry whether there is temporal artefacting in the grain though.

[derpytacos]

I guess these are floating around now. For some reason looks like amazon didnt give bio broly an hevc. thats odd

[Big Boss]

I guess these are floating around now. For some reason looks like amazon didnt give bio broly an hevc. thats odd

And nothing of value was lost.

Spoiler:

Kidding, but that is pretty weird. Probably just an oversight and we'll see the HEVC version soon.

[linkdude20002001]

If you look at the Trunks TVSP remaster by Toei last year, you'll see the same thing. Whites are more or less balanced but the overall thing has a green/yellow grade...so yeah, it seems to just be that most "colorists" these days are dumbasses who think green looks s0 co0l s0 cinEmAtIC and throw it on.

Lightningexpose, this reminded me of how I had a TV before that had a "cinema mode" filter, and it put a greenish-yellow tint over the screen. Is there a logical reason for why people think greenish-yellow is what movies should look like? Perhaps it has to do with the color of the light used to project the film onto the theater screen? I'd like to know, if you do.

[TheGreatness25]

Just curious (sorry, I'll admit that I didn't read most of this thread):

I have the Japanese Blu-rays -- these are "worse" than Amazon, right? Is it just the tint or is it also sharpness/detail? And is there a way to correct it (TV/monitor settings)?

I just want the thing on physical media, damn it!

[VirtuaBranson]

If you look at the Trunks TVSP remaster by Toei last year, you'll see the same thing. Whites are more or less balanced but the overall thing has a green/yellow grade...so yeah, it seems to just be that most "colorists" these days are dumbasses who think green looks s0 co0l s0 cinEmAtIC and throw it on.

Lightningexpose, this reminded me of how I had a TV before that had a "cinema mode" filter, and it put a greenish-yellow tint over the screen. Is there a logical reason for why people think greenish-yellow is what movies should look like? Perhaps it has to do with the color of the light used to project the film onto the theater screen? I'd like to know, if you do.

I know this is like 4 days late and not the person you quoted, but "Cinema Mode" presets on current decent TVs, like of the 4k kind from Sony, LG, Samsung, etc. Are designed to be more accurate to the color temp most cinema and tv shows are mastered at. If youre used to a Cool color temp its going to look Orange and yellow to your eyes until they adjust.

They are designed to be the most accurate, typically, to how Movies and TV shows are graded, which is on the more Warm side, instead of Cool.

Its an adjustment but I now prefer everything to be on the Cinema mode for shows and movies I watch now.

[Javaki]

Kazé announced a German Blu-ray release of the first 17 movies in 4 volumes.

Volume 1 will contain Dragon Ball movies 01 through 03 & the 10th Anniversary Movie (release: 20 July 2020)
Volume 2 will contain Dragon Ball Z movies 01 through 04 (ETA: late-August 2020)
Volume 3 will contain Dragon Ball Z movies 05 through 08 (ETA: late-September 2020)
Volume 4 will contain Dragon Ball Z movies 09 through 13 (ETA: late-November 2020)

I wonder which masters they gonna use

In France, the DBZ movies were broadcast in HD recently, and they turned out to be the same as those used for the Japanese Blu-ray release (heavily DNR'ed, cel composition errors fixed) but without the censorship. So I guess that this release is using the same masters.

Can't confirm it myself (as I don't own a copy yet), but somebody who bought the German 4th volume ("Dragonball Z – The Movies – Box 3") just told me that the censorship from the Japanese Blu-rays is actually also present on Kazé's German release, in DBZ movie 12th's case in both the German theatrical cut and the German subtitled original version. :/ They apparently rebuild the German "DBZ Movie 12+13 double feature" theatrical cut with the new (censored) HD master.

[sangofe]

Kazé announced a German Blu-ray release of the first 17 movies in 4 volumes.

Volume 1 will contain Dragon Ball movies 01 through 03 & the 10th Anniversary Movie (release: 20 July 2020)
Volume 2 will contain Dragon Ball Z movies 01 through 04 (ETA: late-August 2020)
Volume 3 will contain Dragon Ball Z movies 05 through 08 (ETA: late-September 2020)
Volume 4 will contain Dragon Ball Z movies 09 through 13 (ETA: late-November 2020)

I wonder which masters they gonna use

In France, the DBZ movies were broadcast in HD recently, and they turned out to be the same as those used for the Japanese Blu-ray release (heavily DNR'ed, cel composition errors fixed) but without the censorship. So I guess that this release is using the same masters.

Can't confirm it myself (as I don't own a copy yet), but somebody who bought the German 4th volume ("Dragonball Z – The Movies – Box 3") just told me that the censorship from the Japanese Blu-rays is actually also present on Kazé's German release, in DBZ movie 12th's case in both the German theatrical cut and the German subtitled original version. :/ They apparently rebuild the German "DBZ Movie 12+13 double feature" theatrical cut with the new (censored) HD master.

What's interesting is that the specials were released in HD, even though the managed to mess up the bardock special (the video were trimmed to match the dub so they removed certain frames and the commercial breaks).
I wonder about the french HD airing of these though. Where was it broadcast?

[Luso Saiyan]

What's interesting is that the specials were released in HD, even though the managed to mess up the bardock special (the video were trimmed to match the dub so they removed certain frames and the commercial breaks).

I've read about the lack of eyecatches, but not frames. Which frames were removed?