Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[FishermanJohnWest]

Is there anything to suggest which was the stronger of the two between Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta and Ultra Instinct Goku?

Wait until the Moro arc is done, Beerus is sure to do something so we can compare

[Xeno Goku Black]

Gogeta outclassed somebody probably stronger than Beerus, he was untouchable.
UI fought evenly with a character said to be stronger than Belmod, who was at least not weaker than Beerus. And that was before the limit breaking episode, placing Jiren (and UI) comfortably above Beerus.

Well if Belmod is anything comparable to Beerus then Jiren should be within the same ballpark as Broly if not more.

So you'd think that Super Full Power Jiren would be a good chunk stronger than Broly so comparable to Gogeta himself.

But Ultra Instinct Goku wasn't really out of that league so I suppose it could go either way.

[GodVegetto91]

Belmod is NOT anywhere close to Beerus! Not even close...

[Koitsukai]

Gogeta outclassed somebody probably stronger than Beerus, he was untouchable.
UI fought evenly with a character said to be stronger than Belmod, who was at least not weaker than Beerus. And that was before the limit breaking episode, placing Jiren (and UI) comfortably above Beerus.

Well if Belmod is anything comparable to Beerus then Jiren should be within the same ballpark as Broly if not more.

So you'd think that Super Full Power Jiren would be a good chunk stronger than Broly so comparable to Gogeta himself.

But Ultra Instinct Goku wasn't really out of that league so I suppose it could go either way.

In the anime, Belmod was the one that beat Beerus in an arm-wrestling match (Whis even went to say Belmod was stronger than Beerus)
but no matter who is stronger, they are relative to each other, and Jiren stands above them. I guess you could say Jiren and Broly got similar statements with Jiren's being a little more definitive and from an undisputable source, but one could place regular Jiren and FPSS Broly in the same realm, the thing is Jiren had one more power up left when he took his shirt off.
Regular Jiren, Belmod, Beerus and Broly are in the same tier while Gogeta, UI and naked Jiren are on the next tier.

The manga remains vague. Jiren was stronger than Belmod who isn't as strong as in the anime, but UI was not enough to put Jiren down, and with his final power up, he survived/defeated UI -who was already losing steam.
We have no idea how much stronger Jiren got or if current UI's increase in effectiveness was the same during the ToP.
It depends on how UI works, without more info regarding how it works now compared to the ToP's version it's a dead end.

[Hugo Boss]

I think Ultra Instinct Goku and Jiren are likely in the middle point between Broli and Gogeta, but honestly there is no evidence for any assessment. It could go either way.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Gogeta outclassed somebody probably stronger than Beerus, he was untouchable.
UI fought evenly with a character said to be stronger than Belmod, who was at least not weaker than Beerus. And that was before the limit breaking episode, placing Jiren (and UI) comfortably above Beerus.

Well if Belmod is anything comparable to Beerus then Jiren should be within the same ballpark as Broly if not more.

So you'd think that Super Full Power Jiren would be a good chunk stronger than Broly so comparable to Gogeta himself.

But Ultra Instinct Goku wasn't really out of that league so I suppose it could go either way.

In the anime, Belmod was the one that beat Beerus in an arm-wrestling match (Whis even went to say Belmod was stronger than Beerus)
but no matter who is stronger, they are relative to each other, and Jiren stands above them. I guess you could say Jiren and Broly got similar statements with Jiren's being a little more definitive and from an undisputable source, but one could place regular Jiren and FPSS Broly in the same realm, the thing is Jiren had one more power up left when he took his shirt off.
Regular Jiren, Belmod, Beerus and Broly are in the same tier while Gogeta, UI and naked Jiren are on the next tier.

The manga remains vague. Jiren was stronger than Belmod who isn't as strong as in the anime, but UI was not enough to put Jiren down, and with his final power up, he survived/defeated UI -who was already losing steam.
We have no idea how much stronger Jiren got or if current UI's increase in effectiveness was the same during the ToP.
It depends on how UI works, without more info regarding how it works now compared to the ToP's version it's a dead end.

I wouldn't really call LB and mUI next tier cause their feats aren't that much greater then previous

FP Jiren still kept up with MUI Goku, while he was out classed he wasn't anywhere near the level Gogeta Blue was to Broly. And Jiren was > Belmod but still was GoD level when said so, so he isn't massively above Belmod also before LB.

Right now the manga will determine everyone level

[Xeno Goku Black]

Regular Jiren, Belmod, Beerus and Broly are in the same tier while Gogeta, UI and naked Jiren are on the next tier.

Pretty much. There was a huge jump from Jiren to Limit Breaker Jiren.

Broly could arguably be weaker than normal Jiren. Moro up to this point seems like he's lower still.

[GodVegetto91]

According to Goku, Moro is the toughest guy he ever met!

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

Let me know your thoughts.

[SupremeKai25]

According to Goku, Moro is the toughest guy he ever met!

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

Let me know your thoughts.

Yes. Moro merged with an angel apprentice. I doubt that the gap between an apprentice and a fully-fledged angel is so big that Merus was only GoD tier... because he's still an angel. Therefore we can safely place Angel Moro in low-Angel tier at the very least.

[GodVegetto91]

According to Goku, Moro is the toughest guy he ever met!

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

Let me know your thoughts.

Yes. Moro merged with an angel apprentice. I doubt that the gap between an apprentice and a fully-fledged angel is so big that Merus was only GoD tier... because he's still an angel. Therefore we can safely place Angel Moro in low-Angel tier at the very least.

Sorry! CORRECTION!

This was regular Moro 73 of which he said that already! Meaning... BEFORE he copied Merus’ powers..

That’s even more insane.

Can we take that statement as an absolutely undeniable proof that he is now 100% certainly above Broly and Beerus?

Or is it just a random comment of his to be ignored...

[SupremeKai25]

According to Goku, Moro is the toughest guy he ever met!

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

Let me know your thoughts.

Yes. Moro merged with an angel apprentice. I doubt that the gap between an apprentice and a fully-fledged angel is so big that Merus was only GoD tier... because he's still an angel. Therefore we can safely place Angel Moro in low-Angel tier at the very least.

Sorry! CORRECTION!

This was regular Moro 73 of which he said that already! Meaning... BEFORE he copied Merus’ powers..

That’s even more insane.

Can we take that statement as an absolutely undeniable proof that he is now 100% certainly above Broly and Beerus?

Or is it just a random comment of his to be ignored...

Yes, you can take it as undeniable proof that Moro-73 > Beerus. If you don't, nothing changes really, because Moro merges with an angel 10 seconds later, so of course he ends up surpassing Beerus anyway.

Ask yourself this: If Beerus is stronger than Moro, why has he been urging Goku to kill Moro so many times? Couldn't he just do it himself with his oneshot hax? Food for thought.

[GodVegetto91]

Yes. Moro merged with an angel apprentice. I doubt that the gap between an apprentice and a fully-fledged angel is so big that Merus was only GoD tier... because he's still an angel. Therefore we can safely place Angel Moro in low-Angel tier at the very least.

Sorry! CORRECTION!

This was regular Moro 73 of which he said that already! Meaning... BEFORE he copied Merus’ powers..

That’s even more insane.

Can we take that statement as an absolutely undeniable proof that he is now 100% certainly above Broly and Beerus?

Or is it just a random comment of his to be ignored...

Yes, you can take it as undeniable proof that Moro-73 > Beerus. If you don't, nothing changes really, because Moro merges with an angel 10 seconds later, so of course he ends up surpassing Beerus anyway.

Ask yourself this: If Beerus is stronger than Moro, why has he been urging Goku to kill Moro so many times? Couldn't he just do it himself with his oneshot hax? Food for thought.

That is a pretty good one ofcourse.

If I were terrified of someone within my presence, and someone else is fighting him that has the power to beat him, then I would want said person with enough power to finish the job too.. (Looked at from that perspective ofcourse).

But what about their long anticipated, legendary, historic rematch that’s bound to happen???! This was the whole reason Beerus woke up in the first place from a 39 year slumber AND the whole reason why Super started in the first place!

Don’t you think they wouldn’t let such a huge plot point go to waste and ignore it entirely...?

[SupremeKai25]

Sorry! CORRECTION!

This was regular Moro 73 of which he said that already! Meaning... BEFORE he copied Merus’ powers..

That’s even more insane.

Can we take that statement as an absolutely undeniable proof that he is now 100% certainly above Broly and Beerus?

Or is it just a random comment of his to be ignored...

Yes, you can take it as undeniable proof that Moro-73 > Beerus. If you don't, nothing changes really, because Moro merges with an angel 10 seconds later, so of course he ends up surpassing Beerus anyway.

Ask yourself this: If Beerus is stronger than Moro, why has he been urging Goku to kill Moro so many times? Couldn't he just do it himself with his oneshot hax? Food for thought.

That is a pretty good one ofcourse.

If I were terrified of someone within my presence, and someone else is fighting him that has the power to beat him, then I would want said person with enough power to finish the job too.. (Looked at from that perspective ofcourse).

But what about their long anticipated, legendary, historic rematch that’s bound to happen???! This was the whole reason Beerus woke up in the first place from a 39 year slumber AND the whole reason why Super started in the first place!

Don’t you think they wouldn’t let such a huge plot point go to waste and ignore it entirely...?

I can see three different ways this can develop:

1) The Goku vs. Beerus rematch was a red herring, but the series might conclude with a Goku vs. Whis match. This one might make a lot of people mad, but really it wouldn't be the first time Super did that;

2) Goku will lose the powers of Ultra Instinct, maybe to defeat a future villain. Perhaps he no longer has Ultra Instinct by the time he fights Uub during End of Z. Therefore he'd have a fair fight with Beerus;

3) Alternatively, Beerus might start training and master Ultra Instinct himself, thus evening the odds vs. Goku.

Regardless it's safe to say that current Goku and Moro are above Beerus.

[Hugo Boss]

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

It’s pretty much a strength-related assessment, confirming that Moro is stronger than Jiren and Broli. Beerus is still debatable, because Goku doesn’t know what he is truly capable of, and it has been foreshadowed a future rivalry.

[UI Peter]

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

It’s pretty much a strength-related assessment, confirming that Moro is stronger than Jiren and Broli. Beerus is still debatable, because Goku doesn’t know what he is truly capable of, and it has been foreshadowed a future rivalry.

This argument is so worn out

Beerus is so played out now. Yet people in this Fandom still insist on making him a moving goalpost.

[GodVegetto91]

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

It’s pretty much a strength-related assessment, confirming that Moro is stronger than Jiren and Broli. Beerus is still debatable, because Goku doesn’t know what he is truly capable of, and it has been foreshadowed a future rivalry.

Broly was compared to Beerus. Not Jiren. So if Beerus moves up, so does Broly.

[ankokudaishogun]

Ask yourself this: If Beerus is stronger than Moro, why has he been urging Goku to kill Moro so many times? Couldn't he just do it himself with his oneshot hax? Food for thought.

not really. Beerus is LAZY. "Move your ass and kill him, so I don't have to bother" would be a very realistic explanation

[SupremeKai25]

Ask yourself this: If Beerus is stronger than Moro, why has he been urging Goku to kill Moro so many times? Couldn't he just do it himself with his oneshot hax? Food for thought.

not really. Beerus is LAZY. "Move your ass and kill him, so I don't have to bother" would be a very realistic explanation

You would be right if Beerus maintained his composure despite Goku not killing Moro, but that is not what happens. Beerus becomes increasingly uneasy at Goku decision not to downright kill Moro. This is also before Moro merges with an angel.

[Jack Bz]

Is the gap between 7-3 Moro and UI Goku bigger than the gap between 7-3 Moro and Gohan?

I only ask because (spoilers for chapter 65):

Spoiler:

Moro punches UI Goku and straight up breaks his arm from the difference in strength, while Gohan hit Moro multiple times when he was enraged and, whilst it didn't hurt Moro at all, it also didn't hurt Gohan and he certainly didn't break his limbs from even attempting it. He also managed to somewhat restrain him with the galactic donut.

Probably a question no one cares about but regardless it made me think a little about just how much stronger UI Goku is now than everyone else.

[Nevaeh]

According to Goku, Moro is the toughest guy he ever met!

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

Let me know your thoughts.

Obviously

UI Goku is too. He's stronger than SSB Gogeta too. He was swapping hands with someone with angel power