"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Another terrible chapter, what a surprise.

[JewyB]

So, in a way to satisfy everyone what if Moro lives?

But it would be interesting to see a long-standing villain who is literally the Earth in Angel form. Next chapter, Moro assimilates fully with Earth and gains better or complete control over his Angel powers, beats erryone down, then for reasons(not hungry anymore, not threatened and wants a better meal, Whis?) leaves. This does allow for three things:

1. Earth is gone, hello other universes or at least more of ours looking for our goatmanplanet
2. It pushes Goku down from Angel level tear and allows more room for growth.
3. It gives us an Angel level villain for a later target.

This is the optimistic side of Moro surviving and staying evil.

[Koitsukai]

I think it would have been better if Goku wanted to know why Moro was the way he was. And he places his hand on Moro’s head similarly to how he did with Krillin on Namek and reads his mind. Then we spend most of the chapter seeing a Moro backstory of discovering his Magic and how he turned to evil. Nothing like a tragic Jiren Backstory, just something to explain his unending evilness. This only lasts for a few seconds in real time before Moro slaps his hand away, notices the hand, and the chapter ends with Moro in his Angelic form.

Yeah, that would've been really cool, unexpected and a nice way to keep the ending for the following chapter.

Also, I would've preferred if Goku just let Moro take his hand back, so he could take for a spin his new power, going for a real challenge seeing he can break Moro's limbs with just his chest, instead of him being all come on leave town, NO, be a friend, NO.
I'd preferred selfish reckless Goku over idiot Goku every day.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

So, in a way to satisfy everyone what if Moro lives?

But it would be interesting to see a long-standing villain who is literally the Earth in Angel form. Next chapter, Moro assimilates fully with Earth and gains better or complete control over his Angel powers, beats erryone down, then for reasons(not hungry anymore, not threatened and wants a better meal, Whis?) leaves. This does allow for three things:

1. Earth is gone, hello other universes or at least more of ours looking for our goatmanplanet
2. It pushes Goku down from Angel level tear and allows more room for growth.
3. It gives us an Angel level villain for a later target.

This is the optimistic side of Moro surviving and staying evil.

I don't think the writers would be able to let Moro live past this arc. They've given him so much power ups and keeping him alive isn't a good idea.

With the exception of Freeza, reoccurring enemies don't appear often since they are either redeemed or killed. Not to mention Moro is probably not gonna be as popular as Freeza, so keeping him around would be very hard to write and justify, especially since Moro will turn Universe 7 into a wasteland.

[SupremeKai25]

So, in a way to satisfy everyone what if Moro lives?

But it would be interesting to see a long-standing villain who is literally the Earth in Angel form. Next chapter, Moro assimilates fully with Earth and gains better or complete control over his Angel powers, beats erryone down, then for reasons(not hungry anymore, not threatened and wants a better meal, Whis?) leaves. This does allow for three things:

1. Earth is gone, hello other universes or at least more of ours looking for our goatmanplanet
2. It pushes Goku down from Angel level tear and allows more room for growth.
3. It gives us an Angel level villain for a later target.

This is the optimistic side of Moro surviving and staying evil.

If Moro is to survive this arc, I'd prefer a simpler ending where he just goes back to prison, either forcefully or he genuinely goes through a change of heart at the end and turns himself over to the Patrol. If anything, I imagine it would add more tension/mystery to a future arc. Imagine if a future villain is so powerful that Goku and co. need help from all over the multiverse... I can already picture the theory threads: "Will Goku free Moro and ask him for help?? [Speculation]"

However, I can't imagine an ending where Moro survives, goes free, and remains evil. Beerus and Whis want him dead, once the Grand Priest finds out what happened to Merus he'll want him dead too. It's a miracle (or rather, ningen stupidity) that Moro isn't dead yet.

[JewyB]

I don't think the writers would be able to let Moro live past this arc. They've given him so much power ups and keeping him alive isn't a good idea.

With the exception of Freeza, reoccurring enemies don't appear often since they are either redeemed or killed. Not to mention Moro is probably not gonna be as popular as Freeza, so keeping him around would be very hard to write and justify, especially since Moro will turn Universe 7 into a wasteland.

I dont think it would be too difficult to justify, its Dragon Ball so we dont expect advanced explanatiosn, we jsut like them sometimes.

Moro gets his Angel abilities and stomps Goku and co, Whis or GP intervene andd point out that now, technically being an Angel, he must abide by the code or risk erasure. jump through a few basic plot hoops and Moro lives on as a threat for when Goku is above the angel code and can fight them, but cant antagonise directly.

Would also be a good source of villains, since he can power up currently existing enemies to an overwhelming degree. Imagine Frieza meets him, accepts an offer to become his underling fully intending to doublecross him as soon as he powers him up enough. Or he overwhelms Broly with even more power, Broly retread but possible.

He could be an interesting plot device if used well.

If Moro is to survive this arc, I'd prefer a simpler ending where he just goes back to prison, either forcefully or he genuinely goes through a change of heart at the end and turns himself over to the Patrol. If anything, I imagine it would add more tension/mystery to a future arc. Imagine if a future villain is so powerful that Goku and co. need help from all over the multiverse... I can already picture the theory threads: "Will Goku free Moro and ask him for help?? [Speculation]"

However, I can't imagine an ending where Moro survives, goes free, and remains evil. Beerus and Whis want him dead, once the Grand Priest finds out what happened to Merus he'll want him dead too. It's a miracle (or rather, ningen stupidity) that Moro isn't dead yet.

I dunno, that would be a very simple retread of Frieza during the ToP arc, and isn't Moro already old villains enough?

I dont imagine GP or Whis care either way about Moro, Merus made his own choice given direct knowledge of what would happen, it was on him. Beerus seems just more annoyed this is taking up his time, as he is with everything. If Beerus and Whis wanted Moro dead desperately, he would be dead already, they just dont care all that much.

[SupremeKai25]

I dunno, that would be a very simple retread of Frieza during the ToP arc, and isn't Moro already old villains enough?

Not exactly, because:

1) Frieza remains in a position of power after his resurrection. He is still Emperor of the universe and has a massive army at his disposal as well as control over 70% (?) of the universe. Meanwhile I imagine that if Moro survived but went to prison, he'd be shattered, humiliated, humbled, that could open up some character development for him at long last;

2) Frieza returned to his evil ways, he knows he is an asshole but doesn't care. Meanwhile, if Moro had a change of heart, I imagine he'd try to understand what it means to train rigorously, instead of just stealing and relying on borrowed power.

If anything, the problem is that we know literally NOTHING about Moro's backstory. I don't need a flashback, exposition would suffice, but we don't know anything about Moro's origins (despite this being the climactic conclusion of the arc)... was he a mortal who was traumatized and forced to sustain himself at the expense of others? Is he just an entity of pure destruction like Majin Buu (at which point, he'll never change)? It's hard to figure out whether a redemption arc is being planned for a villain if you don't know their origins at all.

I dont imagine GP or Whis care either way about Moro, Merus made his own choice given direct knowledge of what would happen, it was on him. Beerus seems just more annoyed this is taking up his time, as he is with everything. If Beerus and Whis wanted Moro dead desperately, he would be dead already, they just dont care all that much.

Merus sacrificed himself because Moro broke free and threatened the Earth. The Angels won't ignore that, nor will they ignore the danger that Moro poses, changed or not (because I don't want to say he'd straight up redeem himself so quickly). What's likely to happen is that he'd end up being a fugitive like Frost, someone who has to seek refuge in the darkest corners of the universe, while trying to escape from the Gods. But you can't hide from them forever.

[JewyB]

Not exactly, because:

1) Frieza remains in a position of power after his resurrection. He is still Emperor of the universe and has a massive army at his disposal as well as control over 70% (?) of the universe. Meanwhile I imagine that if Moro survived but went to prison, he'd be shattered, humiliated, humbled, that could open up some character development for him at long last;

2) Frieza returned to his evil ways, he knows he is an asshole but doesn't care. Meanwhile, if Moro had a change of heart, I imagine he'd try to understand what it means to train rigorously, instead of just stealing and relying on borrowed power.

Merus sacrificed himself because Moro broke free and threatened the Earth. The Angels won't ignore that, nor will they ignore the danger that Moro poses, changed or not (because I don't want to say he'd straight up redeem himself so quickly). What's likely to happen is that he'd end up being a fugitive like Frost, someone who has to seek refuge in the darkest corners of the universe, while trying to escape from the Gods. But you can't hide from them forever.

For the first part i feel you misunderstood me, Goku approaching Moro for help would be derivative of him approaching Frieza for help for the ToP. Both locked away in a previous prison for refusing to repent, both being approached by Goku for help against a larger scale threat, Moro probably being offered his freedom in exchange for helping etc etc.

But if the Grand Priest were to get involved he would be erased, for not being impartial. Its simple. Merus broke the rules of his own accord, he face punishment. The angels will show no sympathy towards them, and even if they do, acting upon that would break their own rules and lead to their own demise. If the only people he has to threaten him are the Angels, then he's safe because its against their rules to threaten anyone. No matter how you spin it, if they got involved now they would and should die like Merus.

[SupremeKai25]

Not exactly, because:

1) Frieza remains in a position of power after his resurrection. He is still Emperor of the universe and has a massive army at his disposal as well as control over 70% (?) of the universe. Meanwhile I imagine that if Moro survived but went to prison, he'd be shattered, humiliated, humbled, that could open up some character development for him at long last;

2) Frieza returned to his evil ways, he knows he is an asshole but doesn't care. Meanwhile, if Moro had a change of heart, I imagine he'd try to understand what it means to train rigorously, instead of just stealing and relying on borrowed power.

Merus sacrificed himself because Moro broke free and threatened the Earth. The Angels won't ignore that, nor will they ignore the danger that Moro poses, changed or not (because I don't want to say he'd straight up redeem himself so quickly). What's likely to happen is that he'd end up being a fugitive like Frost, someone who has to seek refuge in the darkest corners of the universe, while trying to escape from the Gods. But you can't hide from them forever.

For the first part i feel you misunderstood me, Goku approaching Moro for help would be derivative of him approaching Frieza for help for the ToP. Both locked away in a previous prison for refusing to repent, both being approached by Goku for help against a larger scale threat, Moro probably being offered his freedom in exchange for helping etc etc.

Which is why I think that if Moro survives this arc, then he'll have some form of change of heart. It doesn't mean he'll become good or even start caring about the innocents, but perhaps he'll understand the value and potential of training instead of just stealing everything. At which point it'd be a different scenario, Moro would join Goku not because he's being blackmailed into it, but because he genuinely wants to discover the path to power that Goku took, which is based on training and not feasting on other lifeforms.

But if the Grand Priest were to get involved he would be erased, for not being impartial. Its simple. Merus broke the rules of his own accord, he face punishment. The angels will show no sympathy towards them, and even if they do, acting upon that would break their own rules and lead to their own demise. If the only people he has to threaten him are the Angels, then he's safe because its against their rules to threaten anyone. No matter how you spin it, if they got involved now they would and should die like Merus.

You can't white-wash Moro of his blame, that's stupid. Merus got into that position because Moro threatened the Earth in the first place. It's like not blaming Cell for 16's death because he blew himself up... Cell is still the one who forced these people to take drastic measures. The Angels would take Moro's crimes into account, especially since it's one of their own who got killed in an attempt to stop his invasion.

Regardless the Grand Priest can just petition Zeno to erase Moro, or alternatively Whis can tell Beerus to go ahead and destroy him. As a Destroyer God, it is Beerus' duty to eliminate any potential threat to the natural order of the universe. Actually, Beerus doesn't even need Whis' urges to destroy Moro, he'd definitely kill him if he got the chance. Unfortunately right now Moro has the power of the Angels, so there's not much Beerus can do.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I'm waiting for Moro to get hived off into a planet of his own by Vegeta, for Goku to punt him straight into the DC Universe, where he can muse on Goku's lessons about becoming a good guy and, after a subtle change of name, work for the good order of the Universe.

[Matches Malone]

I'm waiting for Moro to get hived off into a planet of his own by Vegeta, for Goku to punt him straight into the DC Universe, where he can muse on Goku's lessons about becoming a good guy and, after a subtle change of name, work for the good order of the Universe.

It's all connected, I knew it.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Ha! Moro...Mogo. Funny.

But yeah no. Moro should be dead by the end of the arc, he's gotten 3 chances and blew all of them and Goku's attempts to reason/spare him all backfired.

Goku was about to kill Moro at Whis's urging until he became Earth. Literally no point for Moro to be allowed to live at this point, especially since he has ANGEL powers. He needs to die, else everyone gets fucked.

[JewyB]

Which is why I think that if Moro survives this arc, then he'll have some form of change of heart. It doesn't mean he'll become good, or even start caring about the innocents, but perhaps he'll understand the value and potential of training instead of just stealing everything. At which point it'd be a different scenario, Moro would join Goku not because he's being blackmailed into it, but because he genuinely wants to discover the path to power that Goku took, which is based on training and not feasting on other lifeforms.

You can't white-wash Moro of his blame, that's stupid. Merus got into that position because Moro threatened the Earth in the first place. It's like not blaming Cell for 16's death because he tried to blow himself up, he knew the consequences... Cell is still the one who forced these people to take drastic measures.

Regardless the Grand Priest can just petition Zeno to erase Moro, or Whis can just tell Beerus to go ahead and destroy him. As a Destroyer God, it is Beerus' duty to eliminate any potential threat to the natural order of the universe.

I'm not saying i think he'll survive or stay evil, i'm just saying that i think it would be an interesting way to take the story, for the people complaining if Moro survives there's no way the story could ever possibly proceed.

And i dont see how i'm whitewashing Moro of blame, Moro is irrelevant in the situation. The rule for Merus was don't get involved, it wasn't don't get involved unless things are like super bad bro. Yes, Moro is reprehensible, and a threat, but Merus is not in the position to deal with that. Merus is not a defender of Earth, or even U7.

Cell and 16 is irrelevant, its a different circumstance, and 16 still had responsibility of his own, which he shouldered when he decided to self-destruct, you're acting as though Merus had no responsibility at all. To the angels it would be more akin to, for us, watching a man fight a dog with a bunch of dog killing weapons, despite all the signs saying "please dont even touch our dogs especially dont murder them thankyou", and then that man dies. Why blame the dog when the man was warned explicitly not to get involved, was well equipped to deal with it himself even if he did get involved, then died due to his own personal agenda? But on a grander scale, with like, ants and... literal gods....

GP can petition Zeno, but i doubt he would, and he doesnt seem like an active component, he does what Zeno says, not the other way around. Whis can't tell Beerus to destroy him, Whis keeps Beerus in line but isn't his boss. Beerus could tell Whis to destroy him, but we dont know if theres a reason why he couldnt yet.

[Thani]

So.... How did Moro merge with the Earth, again? Which of his magic powers allowed him to do that?

Also, how did planet Earth have enough life energy to sustain angelic power, when it's energy condensed into a Spirit Bomb wasn't even strong enough to kill Vegeta when he invaded the planet?

Also also, Merus' angel power exploding only puts the galaxy in danger or was that just translation error? I thought he was supposed to be at least on par with a God of Destruction, which should be able to do a lot more damage than that.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Also, how did planet Earth have enough life energy to sustain angelic power, when it's energy condensed into a Spirit Bomb wasn't even strong enough to kill Vegeta when he invaded the planet?

Who said anything about life energy? Moro's just looking for a body large and durable enough to contain the power, which his ordinary body can't handle.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Also, how did planet Earth have enough life energy to sustain angelic power, when it's energy condensed into a Spirit Bomb wasn't even strong enough to kill Vegeta when he invaded the planet?

Who said anything about life energy? Moro's just looking for a body large and durable enough to contain the power, which his ordinary body can't handle.

Moro kinda got really desperate and figured that the earth could be his vessel for power. Until Vegeta fissions him he's basically an unbeatable planet that can't be killed without nuking him and everyone present(Beerus and Whis are exceptions obviously).

[Xeogran]

Unless the next arc will be about mind games and some hax that's beyond powers, I have a hard time imagining it. Now that Goku can go Mastered Ultra Instinct at will, there will be difficulty to write the next opponent from the start.

[Tai Lung]

this chapter is as bad as the spoilers indicate
I do not see why others say otherwise

[JewyB]

this chapter is as bad as the spoilers indicate
I do not see why others say otherwise

Because opinions can vary wildly between individuals, more than likely?

[Block88]

this chapter is as bad as the spoilers indicate
I do not see why others say otherwise

Beats me different folks different strokes I guess
One mans trash is another person treasure m8