"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[nato25]

My only problem with this chapter is Beerus still being above Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku. He seemed so confident in his own ability, and its getting hard to believe that if Full Power Beerus is still above MUI that he could have gotten any amount of enjoyment out of his fight in Battle of Gods.

I've seen some suggest that it could be totally unrelated to Beerus' power.

"I'm in big trouble if the other Gods of Destruction see me do this, so let's make it quick."

Now I'm not sure if the "see me do this" is referring to Beerus doing something out of the ordinary or simply getting rid of a threat. I don't think a GoD destroying a threat would be considered a big deal.

If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Whis pointed to Beerus kind of knowing Ultra Instinct but having trouble with it?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

My only problem with this chapter is Beerus still being above Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku. He seemed so confident in his own ability, and its getting hard to believe that if Full Power Beerus is still above MUI that he could have gotten any amount of enjoyment out of his fight in Battle of Gods.

I've seen some suggest that it could be totally unrelated to Beerus' power.

"I'm in big trouble if the other Gods of Destruction see me do this, so let's make it quick."

Now I'm not sure if the "see me do this" is referring to Beerus doing something out of the ordinary or simply getting rid of a threat. I don't think a GoD destroying a threat would be considered a big deal.

If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Whis pointed to Beerus kind of knowing Ultra Instinct but having trouble with it?

Yeah. Beerus also said Goku was able to use Ultra Instinct before he could at the ToP.

Makes you wonder if he's been working on it after seeing Goku's display against Jiren.

[Tai Lung]

Nobody bothers that buu is apart "again" ... just to give participation to a child who should be almost a baby and who has not done anything at all arc... just to help and be decisive giving some energy What is he still supposed to have ... and for some absurd reason is it enough to give goku enough energy?

yes of course .. brilliant writing without a doubt ....

on the positive side everything was pretty good goku giant aura I loved it ... although it lasted so little

[Dragon Wukong]

Nobody bothers that buu is apart "again" ... just to give participation to a child who should be almost a baby and who has not done anything at all arc... just to help and be decisive giving some energy What is he still supposed to have ... and for some absurd reason is it enough to give goku enough energy?

yes of course .. brilliant writing without a doubt ....

on the positive side everything was pretty good goku giant aura I loved it ... although it lasted so little

You realize this is the same child Goku is incredibly excited about at the end of Dragon Ball right? A character whose strength he would still be excited about after having ascended to various godly tiers and mastering Ultra Instinct. Well now there's a very good reason why that would still be the case.

[Xeogran]

So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.

[ChronoTwigger]

So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.

The ending reason I gave to myself is Kaioshin is not a "race of gods" but a "race with godly responsibilities", that's mean they evolve and develop differently based on circumstances like any other race of living beings do.
The "divine entities" are not kaioshin, but angels.

[SupremeKai25]

So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.

It could be that Dai Kaioshin is a natural prodigy like Zamasu. Goku predicted that Zamasu could also reach GoD level if he kept training rigorously.

Just as Frieza eclipses every other member of his species in potential, so do Zamasu and Dai Kaioshin with the Kais.

[Psajdak]

So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.

Who would have expected years ago that some random guy who sealed Ro Kaioshin in Z Sword will eventually end up one of the most important characters in the current era?

We are never told everything, and things that we don't know could very well be very relevant one day.

Similar to how eventually it will most likely be revealed that there is someone ranked even above Zeno, it wouldn't be weird if we found out that other universes also have their Dai Kaioshin.

[Dragon Wukong]

So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.

To be fair, we only know how strong Zamasu/Gowasu were as far as other universe-kaioshins go, though Zamasu was suggested to be among the more powerful ones.

It is quite suggestive of how powerful the Grand Supreme Kai was, his strength eclipsing every other Kaioshin seemingly. It's effectively the equivalent how a few fighters on Earth eclipse the general population in strength.

[Magnificent Ponta]

So how comes only U7 had a Kaioshin this powerful (Dai Kaioshin at 100% power)
It's weird how other universes just have Shin-tier Kaioshins.

To be fair, we only know how strong Zamasu/Gowasu were as far as other universe-kaioshins go, though Zamasu was suggested to be among the more powerful ones.

It is quite suggestive of how powerful the Grand Supreme Kai was, his strength eclipsing every other Kaioshin seemingly. It's effectively the equivalent how a few fighters on Earth eclipse the general population in strength.

It's also worth noting that a great deal of narrative effort has been expended on pointing out that becoming strong and fighting isn't what a Kaioshin is supposed to do. Universe 7's Dai Kaioshin may be a naturally-occurring outlier until he uses most of his power in containing Moro, but his power is sort of meaningless to his office and function, which I'd guess is why there aren't more Shin-jin like that.

[BWri]

So are more people on the Beerus is the benchmark train? I haven't read the chapter responses as of yet. This chapter basically confirms it for me. I've seen more and more people believing it these last few months and this is finally some vindication. I can see some wiggle room in there to still not believe it, but this is a huge feather in the cap for us believers (geez, I'm making it sound like a religion now )

Review:

Spoiler:

Ah, forgot the impromptu review. I basically loved this chapter. I still think Goku's variant of "Gigantification" is strange and out of place for Goku. Isn't it just incredibly artistic and creative? Too creative for Goku IMO. Like Goku even sculpts his own facial features, nostrils, hair, eyebrows, muscle definition. Why would his construct be so ... artistically accurate? Especially when we've never seen him craft something even close to as intricate in his entire life, not even a single Nyoibo ki construct.

Getting past that oddness, I like that every character was competent and useful in the end and how everyone stood tall by the end of the battle. Other than Merus, none of the heroes were killed off or sacrificed. Piccolo and Vegeta got a great deal of spotlight which is nice. And Piccolo's plan combined with Vegeta's abilities and the energy of every single one of Earth's heroes and supporters really made this an epic group effort moreso than any spirit bomb formation we've seen in the past. I think only the one against Buu rivals this one and I find this one to be better IMHO.

Using Uub and Daikaioshin was brilliant and I like the ambiguity of if they somehow combined their powers to send what may have been Daikaioshin peak god ki to Goku. I was trying to figure out why Kid Buu's ki would provide such a boost when Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan's didn't then it hit me that Uub + Daikaioshin = Daikaioshin at his strongest.

And that Uub panel with his hand out just as everything looks bleak is just so satisfying.

What could've made this better?
-I think giving Vegeta a more active role in the action would have overall made this better. Without him and his new ability, the day would not have been saved, but visually it still appears that he is participating from the sidelines, thusly retaining his side character status despite appearing to be a deuteragonist earlier in the arc.

-If Whis didn't spell out everything for Goku.

-If chapter 65 didn't exist. Ch. 65 really brings down the entire arc. If only Moro was smart enough to get this far without Goku's help. Unfortunately this chapter is forced to play the role of repairer for that chapter and it gets dragged down in the effort. Chapter 65 drags the entire arc down for me in all honesty. It's still one of the best arcs of Super and this chapter helps with that.

Can't wait for chapter 67! I'm pretty high on this arc and want to see how it ends. Hopefully we get the setup for the next arc as well.

Interesting note* - This is the first time I've seen Goku lack this much confidence.He almost seemed like a different character when talking to Whis. I'm wondering if this is leading anywhere.

[Mister_Popo]

So are more people on the Beerus is the benchmark train? I haven't read the chapter responses as of yet. This chapter basically confirms it for me. I've seen more and more people believing it these last few months and this is finally some vindication. I can see some wiggle room in there to still not believe it, but this is a huge feather in the cap for us believers (geez, I'm making it sound like a religion now )

Review:

Spoiler:

Ah, forgot the impromptu review. I basically loved this chapter. I still think Goku's variant of "Gigantification" is strange and out of place for Goku. Isn't it just incredibly artistic and creative? Too creative for Goku IMO. Like Goku even sculpts his own facial features, nostrils, hair, eyebrows, muscle definition. Why would his construct be so ... artistically accurate? Especially when we've never seen him craft something even close to as intricate in his entire life, not even a single Nyoibo ki construct.

Getting past that oddness, I like that every character was competent and useful in the end and how everyone stood tall by the end of the battle. Other than Merus, none of the heroes were killed off or sacrificed. Piccolo and Vegeta got a great deal of spotlight which is nice. And Piccolo's plan combined with Vegeta's abilities and the energy of every single one of Earth's heroes and supporters really made this an epic group effort moreso than any spirit bomb formation we've seen in the past. I think only the one against Buu rivals this one and I find this one to be better IMHO.

Using Uub and Daikaioshin was brilliant and I like the ambiguity of if they somehow combined their powers to send what may have been Daikaioshin peak god ki to Goku. I was trying to figure out why Kid Buu's ki would provide such a boost when Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan's didn't then it hit me that Uub + Daikaioshin = Daikaioshin at his strongest.

And that Uub panel with his hand out just as everything looks bleak is just so satisfying.

What could've made this better?
-I think giving Vegeta a more active role in the action would have overall made this better. Without him and his new ability, the day would not have been saved, but visually it still appears that he is participating from the sidelines, thusly retaining his side character status despite appearing to be a deuteragonist earlier in the arc.

-If Whis didn't spell out everything for Goku.

-If chapter 65 didn't exist. Ch. 65 really brings down the entire arc. If only Moro was smart enough to get this far without Goku's help. Unfortunately this chapter is forced to play the role of repairer for that chapter and it gets dragged down in the effort. Chapter 65 drags the entire arc down for me in all honesty. It's still one of the best arcs of Super and this chapter helps with that.

Can't wait for chapter 67! I'm pretty high on this arc and want to see how it ends. Hopefully we get the setup for the next arc as well.

Interesting note* - This is the first time I've seen Goku lack this much confidence.He almost seemed like a different character when talking to Whis. I'm wondering if this is leading anywhere.

There is still a difference between mastering a certain ability, such as God-ki or MUI, and being stronger than someone else.
Jiren, Broly and by extension Moro didn't have any of these features but still manage to challenge MUI or push Gogeta into Blue.
I don't dare doing any statements anymore about how "strong" Beerus really is, untill it's confirmed.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

So I suppose South Kaioshin only became the strongest Kaioshin after Dai gave up most of his Divine Power to seal away Moro's magic.

[Kepiaschkz]

Do we know what the chapter #68 title is yet ? It could give us an hint at what to expect next.

[BWri]

So are more people on the Beerus is the benchmark train? I haven't read the chapter responses as of yet. This chapter basically confirms it for me. I've seen more and more people believing it these last few months and this is finally some vindication. I can see some wiggle room in there to still not believe it, but this is a huge feather in the cap for us believers (geez, I'm making it sound like a religion now )

Review:

Spoiler:

Ah, forgot the impromptu review. I basically loved this chapter. I still think Goku's variant of "Gigantification" is strange and out of place for Goku. Isn't it just incredibly artistic and creative? Too creative for Goku IMO. Like Goku even sculpts his own facial features, nostrils, hair, eyebrows, muscle definition. Why would his construct be so ... artistically accurate? Especially when we've never seen him craft something even close to as intricate in his entire life, not even a single Nyoibo ki construct.

Getting past that oddness, I like that every character was competent and useful in the end and how everyone stood tall by the end of the battle. Other than Merus, none of the heroes were killed off or sacrificed. Piccolo and Vegeta got a great deal of spotlight which is nice. And Piccolo's plan combined with Vegeta's abilities and the energy of every single one of Earth's heroes and supporters really made this an epic group effort moreso than any spirit bomb formation we've seen in the past. I think only the one against Buu rivals this one and I find this one to be better IMHO.

Using Uub and Daikaioshin was brilliant and I like the ambiguity of if they somehow combined their powers to send what may have been Daikaioshin peak god ki to Goku. I was trying to figure out why Kid Buu's ki would provide such a boost when Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan's didn't then it hit me that Uub + Daikaioshin = Daikaioshin at his strongest.

And that Uub panel with his hand out just as everything looks bleak is just so satisfying.

What could've made this better?
-I think giving Vegeta a more active role in the action would have overall made this better. Without him and his new ability, the day would not have been saved, but visually it still appears that he is participating from the sidelines, thusly retaining his side character status despite appearing to be a deuteragonist earlier in the arc.

-If Whis didn't spell out everything for Goku.

-If chapter 65 didn't exist. Ch. 65 really brings down the entire arc. If only Moro was smart enough to get this far without Goku's help. Unfortunately this chapter is forced to play the role of repairer for that chapter and it gets dragged down in the effort. Chapter 65 drags the entire arc down for me in all honesty. It's still one of the best arcs of Super and this chapter helps with that.

Can't wait for chapter 67! I'm pretty high on this arc and want to see how it ends. Hopefully we get the setup for the next arc as well.

Interesting note* - This is the first time I've seen Goku lack this much confidence.He almost seemed like a different character when talking to Whis. I'm wondering if this is leading anywhere.

There is still a difference between mastering a certain ability, such as God-ki or MUI, and being stronger than someone else.
Jiren, Broly and by extension Moro didn't have any of these features but still manage to challenge MUI or push Gogeta into Blue.

That is the question though, one of strength rather than ability. And in DB, strength is even often tied to ability (which I find irritating). God-ki doesn't augment strength or abilities any more than normal ki so I'm not sure how that factors into a character's overall level of power. Neither Broly, Jiren, or Moro are handicapped by not having God Ki. Other than allowing access to UI, god ki seems to have very limited purpose. Very poorly thought out concept narratively (unless there's more to it).

I don't dare doing any statements anymore about how "strong" Beerus really is, untill it's confirmed.

Fair enough. This about does it for me. I'm convinced. The way his statement is worded in Chapter 66, there's enough wiggle room to cop out of it later if they wanted to and I wouldn't be disappointed. But from my perspective, the evidence is overwhelming that he is still top-dog amongst the non-angels.

[Lionel]

It's odd how Beerus is still portrayed as a game changing asset despite the inroads Goku has made in ascending not to the hierarchy of the Hakaishin but angels. Has he been surreptitiously training all this time and we weren't aware of it? Has he always been in the lower segment of angel tier? It's evident that Toyotaro still wants us to perceive Beerus as a gleaming benchmark for whom Goku should aspire for.

Anyone else here happy that the non-Vegeta Z-Warriors at least got to appear and make some kind of contributory effort? This has to be the greatest amount of participation we've seen from Chaozu since... ever, really. Piccolo served a vital role in voicing the strategy for Vegeta allocating power to Goku. I only wish this level of involvement was more consistent and long term with a planning sheet for the humans.

[Matches Malone]

Anyone else here happy that the non-Vegeta Z-Warriors at least got to appear and make some kind of contributory effort?

Yes, as it somewhat made up for their lackluster performance against Moro's men.

[fadeddreams5]

Wow, they really dropped the ball by not making the shape of Goku's giant avatar form a giant ape instead.

I have a feeling that if the anime ever returns, this arc will be skipped entirely and we'll finally reach EoZ. Vegeta's new abilities will probably be non-canon in the anime too.

[Gt91]

Do we know what the chapter #68 title is yet ? It could give us an hint at what to expect next.

Not yet, we have to wait until the 13th of december (for sketches).

[Kinokima]

Anyone else here happy that the non-Vegeta Z-Warriors at least got to appear and make some kind of contributory effort?

Yes, as it somewhat made up for their lackluster performance against Moro's men.

The characters that lent their energy to Vegeta were also the same ones who fought him and Nappa in the Saiyan arc. Kind of a nice symbolic touch