Let's see:dragonball0900 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:26 pmInteresting observation.Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:15 pmEven if people use the "oMg GoHan Is UrecOgnIzaBlE" argument, they can't quantify anything lol. As a matter of fact, with Kefla never showing how strong she was compared to an actual blue tier character, she is up to debate to being up there. Even if logic dictated for her to stomp Gohan she didn't. Freeza was confident in defeating Kale in Golden, Kale defeated fodder. The fusion should hardly add anything from Caulifla's insignificant part.dragonball0900 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:46 pmI've been wondering about this: How strong are Current MSSB Goku and Current Omen Goku compared to the ToP?
We should remember how Gohan, who was equal to Kefla and not that far below Goku, got considerably stronger to the point that Goku could not recognize him or Piccolo, yet that same Gohan was fodder to Saganbo, with the latter walking through his strongest blast.
Then we have Current MSSB Goku dominating a powered up Saganbo (stronger than when he fought Gohan and the others, mind you) like he was nothing. It clearly showed Goku's considerably growth in power when training with Merus for months. And obviously, his UI Sign (Omen) got stronger the same way too.
But how does this compare to the ToP? Do you think Current MSSB got close to his Omen state from the ToP? Do you think Current Omen Goku got close to his MUI state from the ToP? Some people believe transformations should not be surpassed, but I can't see why not, given the crazy increases in power Super usually gives us. And this is a clear example of a crazy increase in power from Goku, and Vegeta as well, since he was stated to be above Current Omen Goku in just SSBE.
Where would you place Current MSSB and Omen Goku in relation to the ToP?
For what it's worth, Goku chose to use Omen to distract Saganbo. Ofc that would be overkill, but he wanted to show off. Saganbo was strong, but could hardly utilize his power. A methodical Goku with Blue could easily take him out, especially after his training with Merus (which was more UI inclined rather than power inclined, unlike Vegeta).
Also people seem to forget how Saganbo tanked Goku, even got praised for being sturdy. I believe it's more of a question on which fighter is better, in the same ballpark of strength. So Goku rn in Blue is above Gohan for sure, but so was he in the ToP. Merging everything together, he shouldn't have had to get leagues stronger to perform like this. Everything in Gohan's name is the author praising him and giving him an ounce of reason to be there.
So imo, no Blue Goku gets dominated by ToP Omen, as he should be. But he comfortably defeats his Blue ToP self mid dif. Which means this applies to Omen, as current Omen mid difs ToP Omen, but the jump in power isn't enough to overcome ToP MUI, which is still near current MUI.
By how much? That is unknown. My speculation would be less than 2 times.
As for Vegeta, his strength-focused training boosted him enough to be in current Omen's league (in the ToP he was stated a step below), but with his Spirit Fission it was obvious that he would deal more harm to Moro. Now is he a bit stronger than Omen, is he not etc it doesn't matter. Cause if the enemy wasn't Moro he would probably perfrom as well as Goku. So same for him.
What would be your scale numbers for each character's strength?
ToP MSSB: 1
This will be the measuring stick. Koitsukai makes some good observations, so I share a similar opinion.
Btw I'm also a fan of "Blue is 5 times God" and Mastery over Blue means Full Potential Blue, so no multipliers on that too.
- Berserk Kale: 0.5
- Gohan: 0.8
- Kefla: 0.8
- Golden Freeza = Blue = 1
- 'Kaio-what' Blue: unquantifiable, unlike the anime where we get numbers. I don't see a reason for it not to be 20 times over Blue, but seeing how Blue is treated in the manga as even more straining than the anime, it's fair to assume that the numbers we play with are not that big (making Omen more impressive as a powerup), for the sake of numbers I give it a 10, but its situational for reasons Ill talk about later
- Blue Evo: at least twice as strong as power stressed Goku to make Jiren call him the mightiest, but he is clearly below Omen, so 20
- Omen = 50 (a comfortable round number with plenty of gap for the previous power-ups to matter, but still be regarded as op)
- Jiren: I don't rly like scaling Manga Jiren so I'm not sure on this one, but with some simple logic and some anime bias his power plays at 50 (Supressed)-100 (Full Power)-more than 130 (he never broke his limits like in the anime to give us a clear look)
- MUI = at least 150
- current Gohan: 1
- Saganbo: 2 (Empowered)-3 (Powerhouse) (what I wanted to say about Goku power stressing is that as Koitsukai mentioned, Saganbo may be able to defeat that version of Goku at the height of his power, so I'm not debunking myself, rather I give another point of view of where that 'tier' may lie in terms of strength)
- current Blue: 2 or 3
- current Omen and Prime Moro: 100- 110 (power stressed, Goku gains more power and probably speed for a less balanced Omen with less refined UI ability, while Moro plays with what he has)
- current Blue Evo: 100+ (Vegeta def made a more considerable jump in power)
- 7-Moro-3 = Prime Moro+unquantifiable Elder Moro power (which if similar to early moro arc is utterly meaningless)+OG73-i abilities and power, giving us LB Jiren+ or 130+ level. ToP MUI takes
- Angelic Moro = equal to current MUI (apparently, when it makes 0 sense but ok) which is a comfortable 300+ compared to the ToP
- FPSS Broly = 100
- Gogeta Blue = 150+
Enjoy my totally-legit-fully-objective-100%-accurate-top-rate scale