Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
- GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1728
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
Both Goku and Freeza sustained injuries that ought to have weakened them in their fight. Goku took a hell of a beating and wasted energy on the Kaio-Ken and the Genki-Dama while Freeza got hit by the Genki-Dama and barely survived. Piccolo or Gohan even noted Goku’s Ki diminished a lot. Surely this damage should have affected their ability to put forth their strongest powers, shouldn’t it?
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
No, they were pretty fucked up, definitely not at their best form.
While in their best shape they'd be 150M and 120M, effectively speaking they probably were around half their power, considering Freeza almost died and had lost part of his tail and Goku's body had withstood a KKx20 on top of a beating. Probably Goku was in worse shape and that's why it was so even for so long?
SS Goku 60-65 M
FP Freeza 60 M
While in their best shape they'd be 150M and 120M, effectively speaking they probably were around half their power, considering Freeza almost died and had lost part of his tail and Goku's body had withstood a KKx20 on top of a beating. Probably Goku was in worse shape and that's why it was so even for so long?
SS Goku 60-65 M
FP Freeza 60 M
- Magnificent Ponta
- OMG CRAZY REGEN
- Posts: 900
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
- Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
In theory, perhaps this is true.
But I really don't get the impression that the manga is trying to give us the idea that either of them have anything more to give - the whole dramatic thrust of their fight is that it's both of them putting everything they have on the table and Freeza coming up short. If the lines were blurred by ideas such as Freeza's '100%' not really being 100% of his power, or whatever, I think that would impede this particular message.
But I really don't get the impression that the manga is trying to give us the idea that either of them have anything more to give - the whole dramatic thrust of their fight is that it's both of them putting everything they have on the table and Freeza coming up short. If the lines were blurred by ideas such as Freeza's '100%' not really being 100% of his power, or whatever, I think that would impede this particular message.
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
If DBS isn't involved, probably on Freeza, no on Goku. For Freeza, someone who was born as powerful as he was, he says he never trained, but what we learned with space faring monsters was the power they got from birth is all they got, so Freeza wasn't ever going to get stronger. He'd probably decline, whenever his race experiences old age. As for Goku, he went on to achieve SSJ3, and I don't think even then was his peak.
With DBS, even their base forms are given such a boost in power that its easy to just say no.
With DBS, even their base forms are given such a boost in power that its easy to just say no.
- nickzambuto
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1666
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:53 pm
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
They had injuries but their power levels don't change. They only continue to get stronger as the fight progresses and they both take more damage. Same with the Tournament of Power, they were getting tired but their actual strength was only increasing, never decreasing.
If Goku's arm was messed up than maybe he couldn't throw a punch properly, but his actual power level was definitely 150M.
If Goku's arm was messed up than maybe he couldn't throw a punch properly, but his actual power level was definitely 150M.
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
I suspect that they weren't at their optimal fighting power during the last bout. Goku couldn't even stand properly on his own when he transformed and Freeza, who seemed to incure the bulk of his damage from the Spirit Bomb, looked pretty weatherworn himself. Don't get me wrong. Super Saiyan definitely looked to be giving Goku a second wind. I just don't think that he was as strong as he may have been if somehow he had transformed after immediately arriving onto the battlefield post-healing.
We've seen prior examples of exhausted characters coming up short in fights before or being demonstrably weaker than they were originally like Goku against Tambourine (first encounter), Piccolo Jr fighting Goku at the end (still powerful enough to handle the humans though), and Vegeta fighting the reinforcements who came to rescue Goku.
We've seen prior examples of exhausted characters coming up short in fights before or being demonstrably weaker than they were originally like Goku against Tambourine (first encounter), Piccolo Jr fighting Goku at the end (still powerful enough to handle the humans though), and Vegeta fighting the reinforcements who came to rescue Goku.
-
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:12 pm
- Location: Zambia, Southern Africa
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
I'm sorry, but isn't that question loaded given how far both have come since then?
"Don't take pleasure in destruction!" / "I will not let you destroy my world!"
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
So I always liked to believe that for narrative purposes Goku and Freeza were basically equally wounded.
So even if they weren't at their hypothetical maxes it was the same outcome and it was a fair fight when Goku proved his superiority.
Another take is once Freeza was allowed to reach 100% he was as strong as he would have been and only Goku was weaker.
This would explain why non wounded Goku (or, well, his roughly equal Trunks) beat Powered Up mecha Freeza even easier then he did on Namek despite mostly only learning teleportation and flying through space and healing without a chamber in that time
So even if they weren't at their hypothetical maxes it was the same outcome and it was a fair fight when Goku proved his superiority.
Another take is once Freeza was allowed to reach 100% he was as strong as he would have been and only Goku was weaker.
This would explain why non wounded Goku (or, well, his roughly equal Trunks) beat Powered Up mecha Freeza even easier then he did on Namek despite mostly only learning teleportation and flying through space and healing without a chamber in that time
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.
- sunsetshimmer
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
- Location: Poland/Equestria
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
Unless going SSJ or 100% restores all of ki and vitality then no, i don't think they were at their peak at that time. We had similar situation with Goku SS4 being about equal to Oozaru Baby Vegeta, but both got a lot of beating before reaching those forms, especially Goku. At the very end of fight we see both restoring their power and then Goku completely stomped him. If Goku and Frieza ate senzu beans before their final fight, things should've looked different as well, including Goku defeating him a bit faster at least. That's my opinion.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
Both Goku and Freeza took pretty serious beating (Especially Freeza, taking Genki Dama) it surely took some power away from them, hard to tell how much it affected them through:
- Piccolo Jr. got pretty serious beatdown, yet Tenshinhan and others still were no match for him.
- Vegeta took Kaio-ken X4 Kamehameha, got weaker after creating artificial moon, took on Genki Dama, but Kuririn and Yajirobe were still one shot KO by him.
- Piccolo Jr. got pretty serious beatdown, yet Tenshinhan and others still were no match for him.
- Vegeta took Kaio-ken X4 Kamehameha, got weaker after creating artificial moon, took on Genki Dama, but Kuririn and Yajirobe were still one shot KO by him.
My Twitter: @kamil198811
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015
- GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1728
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
Worth pointing out Freeza is never stated to have been weakened by the Genki-Dama, so I think the question is mostly directed at Goku here.
FoolsGil wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:34 am If DBS isn't involved, probably on Freeza, no on Goku. For Freeza, someone who was born as powerful as he was, he says he never trained, but what we learned with space faring monsters was the power they got from birth is all they got, so Freeza wasn't ever going to get stronger. He'd probably decline, whenever his race experiences old age. As for Goku, he went on to achieve SSJ3, and I don't think even then was his peak.
With DBS, even their base forms are given such a boost in power that its easy to just say no.
Not if you read the description in the OP.DragonBallFoodie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:24 pm I'm sorry, but isn't that question loaded given how far both have come since then?
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
*reads OP*
...The answer is yes. Goku was already completely tapped out after the genki dama, and even if Freeza could keep pummeling Goku after surviving the genki dama, He shouldn't be able to bring forth his 100%, and perhaps should have dropped to one of his lower forms.
- miguelnuva1
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2675
- Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
Frieza was at full power but his stamina was depleted because of injury. Hurt Frieza could be at full power for a couple minutes where as healthy Frieza could fight at full power for an hour or more for example.
Goku's SS form seemed to full restore his reserves which was likely the rage and adrenaline.
Goku when he powered down to base briefly looked better than his first transformation.
Goku's SS form seemed to full restore his reserves which was likely the rage and adrenaline.
Goku when he powered down to base briefly looked better than his first transformation.
Re: Were Goku and Freeza fighting at their peak on Namek?
No; they were mostly fighting over the ocean.