What Retcon Would You Undo *Or* Tweak?

[ABED]

And if you can't agree on your terms, how productive is the conversation. Nothing devolved.

My point is, when these conversations get hung up on the minutiae of debating the definition of the term, the thread often stops being about the topic. I'd much rather get a chance to discuss the narrative implications of the retcon I chose than have to defend whether or not it counts as a retcon (which it totally does). I guess I've just become weary at having the same fruitless debate for a second consecutive decade when there is an interesting topic to be had here.

It's not minutia. It's important to any conversation so there's clarity.

And no, Goku being an alien isn't a retcon because continuity wasn't broken.

Retcon: the Cyborgs that destroyed Trunks' future were 19 & 20 but are now 17 & 18.
Retcon: Donna Pinciotti having a sister then being an only child
Goku has an origin not explained but is later explained to be an alien.

One of these things is not like the other.

Narrative-wise the REVEAL not only gave a good explanation for why Goku was different, it directly lead to one of the strogest arcs in the series in terms of character, action, and theme.

[MasenkoHA]

I wouldn’t consider Goku being an alien a retcon either because nothing stated he wasn’t an alien and at least Oolong guessed that he was. The only real argument I think is Roshi apparently always knew Grandpa Gohan found Goku in a space pod and he never once, even internally, thinks about Goku being an alien or non-human.

[BWri]

But, yes. That is my choice of retcon to undo. There were three full years in the story where Goku was *not* an alien before he was rewritten to always be one. I've always been curious as to where the story would have gone without that. Given his long-lived second banana status nowadays, I wonder if we would have gotten a Vegeta equivalent, or if Toriyama would have been forced to further develop Piccolo or Tenshinhan into that role. Would we have gone down the endless transformation rabbit hole, or would other types of power-ups been utilized?

Those are all interesting scenarios to consider. Would the story have strayed into the brief but series defining territory of hard crunching number battles that was introduced with the alien element or would it have held true to the esoteric elements of traditional wuxia that Dragon Ball held for most of its run?

Would the potential Vegeta equivalent been another earthling martial artist from a hidden tradition (they always came out the woodwork in Hokuto no Ken) or would we have another demon character similar to Garlic Jr.? Hell, would the gods have been introduced much earlier since both Goku and Piccolo had surpassed god?

Damn, that's probably the most interesting retcon to think about.

[super michael]

Here are a couple retcons that happened in Dragon Ball:

1st - Tarbles Vegeta brother survived, the reason why it is a retcon is because Vegeta specifically says the only full blooded Saiyans were Goku and Gohan in the Mecha Freeza Saga.

2nd - In BoG, RoF and DBS Broly movie Shenron only grants 1 wish, even though Dende upgraded the Dragon Balls to grant 3 wishes or 2 wishes if mass revival was used.

3rd - Future Trunks hair was never purple/lavender but instead always blue.

[PurestEvil]

2nd - In BoG, RoF and DBS Broly movie Shenron only grants 1 wish, even though Dende upgraded the Dragon Balls to grant 3 wishes or 2 wishes if mass revival was used.

I would complain about this and how Toriyama forgets the lore he writes and stuff, but I honestly prefer Shenron that way. It feels like STORY HAX a lot less.

[MajinPopo]

Here are a couple retcons that happened in Dragon Ball:

1st - Tarbles Vegeta brother survived, the reason why it is a retcon is because Vegeta specifically says the only full blooded Saiyans were Goku and Gohan in the Mecha Freeza Saga.

2nd - In BoG, RoF and DBS Broly movie Shenron only grants 1 wish, even though Dende upgraded the Dragon Balls to grant 3 wishes or 2 wishes if mass revival was used.

3rd - Future Trunks hair was never purple/lavender but instead always blue.

Maybe Dende recrafted the Dragonballs during peace time after the threat of Buu was over? With a group of friends who basically have a monopoly on wishes to the point that DBs are given out as prizes, it wouldn't be very good God policy to allow that to happen.

[DatHenson]

I wouldn’t consider Goku being an alien a retcon either because nothing stated he wasn’t an alien and at least Oolong guessed that he was. The only real argument I think is Roshi apparently always knew Grandpa Gohan found Goku in a space pod and he never once, even internally, thinks about Goku being an alien or non-human.

First post!
Something funny (though my memory is shaky, correct me), and I think this was mid RR arc. One of the terrified soldiers (after Goku wrecked the base) notes "Goku CAN'T be human"
granted it's most likely a throwaway line (especially since by that point Toriyama really wasn't planning ahead), but the fact it became true later gets me
Regardless, I disagree Goku being an alien is a retcon. He had no past otherwise

[Wizard Sesame]

Minor one: Bobbidi being a fetch of Bibbidi. I prefer him to be his son. It makes him feel like a stronger character to me.

[Yosheets]

Kaioken being written out of the story. Krillin, Yamcha, and Tenshinhan should have used Kaioken during the Cell Saga, LOL.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

Kaioken being written out of the story. Krillin, Yamcha, and Tenshinhan should have used Kaioken during the Cell Saga, LOL.

That's not a retcon so much as Toriyama forgetting about Kaioken. Ultimately it was created to serve Goku, and once Goku went SSJ, it was forgotten about. That said, I agree that the earthlings should have learned it lol. Would have made the dynamics much more interesting moving forward.

[DatHenson]

Destructo Disc being forgotten hurts. The fact Solar Flare is "Krillin's ult" technique now, despite it originally being Ten's is stupid. Though his upgrade on it to where it masks his energy is nice

[ABED]

Kaio-ken wasn't forgotten, it was irrelevant by that point. Goku had a permanent power up. Why hurt his body unnecessarily?

[MasenkoHA]

Kaio-Ken also makes a comeback in Super anyways.

[BWri]

Kaioken being written out of the story. Krillin, Yamcha, and Tenshinhan should have used Kaioken during the Cell Saga, LOL.

I still think it makes no sense that Tien didn't get the technique. He was on Kai's planet far longer than Goku and was about as talented if not moreso judging from his gains with Kami's training. If Kai wasn't going to teach a dedicated student like Tien, then why would AT even have him and the others go to Kai's planet to train? It reeks of apathy.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

Kaio-ken wasn't forgotten, it was irrelevant by that point. Goku had a permanent power up. Why hurt his body unnecessarily?

Sure, that's more or less what I meant; I didn't literally mean forgotten so much as moved on from. It doesn't explain why the Earthlings didn't learn the technique. Which essentially means Toriyama moved on from it since it was no longer relevant to Goku. And I know it's not Toriyama, but now we have Goku using Kaioken with Blue, while none of the non-Saiyans have learned the technique.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

The only one that comes to mind for me is Beerus ordering Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta. That was done mainly to show how fearsome Beerus was, and I suppose it did the trick. In hindsight, it just seems unnecessary, especially since it's doubtful Frieza would have needed an order to destroy the Saiyans..

[ABED]

Kaio-ken wasn't forgotten, it was irrelevant by that point. Goku had a permanent power up. Why hurt his body unnecessarily?

Sure, that's more or less what I meant; I didn't literally mean forgotten so much as moved on from. It doesn't explain why the Earthlings didn't learn the technique. Which essentially means Toriyama moved on from it since it was no longer relevant to Goku. And I know it's not Toriyama, but now we have Goku using Kaioken with Blue, while none of the non-Saiyans have learned the technique.

Ah, gotcha, but I don't see use of the Kaio-ken by other characters leading to anywhere than where they are.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

Kaio-ken wasn't forgotten, it was irrelevant by that point. Goku had a permanent power up. Why hurt his body unnecessarily?

Sure, that's more or less what I meant; I didn't literally mean forgotten so much as moved on from. It doesn't explain why the Earthlings didn't learn the technique. Which essentially means Toriyama moved on from it since it was no longer relevant to Goku. And I know it's not Toriyama, but now we have Goku using Kaioken with Blue, while none of the non-Saiyans have learned the technique.

Ah, gotcha, but I don't see use of the Kaio-ken by other characters leading to anywhere than where they are.

You're probably right, it probably would have been marginal gains at best by the time of the Android arc. I still would've liked to see Yamcha and Krillin push themselves to their absolute limits, though (Tien did with the Tri Beam against Cell).

[BWri]

Yes, its just nice to see characters progress even if they aren't the main characters. It adds to the feeling of immersion.

[super michael]

Goku doesn't rely on smelling someone scent anymore and doesn't rely on mind reading to know what someone is thinking, both are actually great skills.

A Saiyan tail only has weakness but no positive, which I believe isn't true. Goku tail saved him a bunch of time. Here are examples:

- Goku dodge Girun attack while tied.
- Goku fly back after Jackie Chan throws Goku out of the ring.
- Goku uses his tail to grab Korin Tower and grabs the water.
- Goku grabs Tien arm to avoid some attack.
- Goku uses his tail to trip Krillin.
- Raditz use his tail to attack Krillin.

Plenty of advantages there.