Most ineffective technique?

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Lord Beerus
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:16 pm

No mention of Tenshinhan's Kikōhō? A technique that literally kill you before it kills your opponent?

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Yuji » Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:02 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:16 pm
No mention of Tenshinhan's Kikōhō? A technique that literally kill you before it kills your opponent?
It was effective in winning him a tournament.

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Mr Perfect Cell » Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:39 pm

Vegetas Technique when hes pissed or losing:
Ki Blast spam

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:52 pm

Yuji wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:02 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:16 pm
No mention of Tenshinhan's Kikōhō? A technique that literally kill you before it kills your opponent?
It was effective in winning him a tournament.
A car won the tournament for Tenshinhan.

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Saiga » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:44 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm
BWri wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:24 pm
coola wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:14 pm
Shishin no Ken/Multi-form - Cloning technique used by Tien during 23rd Budokai, used only once in manga, since you also need to divide your power and speed
This is one of those techniques that Tien should have "perfected" years ago. It really shouldn't split power/speed at this late stage in the series but it still does because Tien can't have nice things.
Well it logically makes sense that it would split his power, otherwise it would be a power multiplier technique. But if Tenshinhan learned something like the Kaio-Ken, then combined that with multi-form, he could possibly create many clones just as powerful as the originals without putting undue stress on his body.

Imagine Kaio-Ken x100 + Multi-Form x 100. Each clone is just as powerful as the original Tenshinhan since the power is split between them, and because it's split, he doesn't risk hurting himself with it.
That would make no sense. If Tenshinhan could use the Kaio-ken x100, he should just do that without splitting his bodies up. The split bodies would be weaker, and given Goku's progression this would mean they'd be less able to handle the stress of the Kaio-ken, not more able.

The multi-form is a bad technique. Which is totally fine, that's the role it served in the story. There's no need to try to salvage it just to give him something unique.
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by BWri » Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:11 pm

Saiga wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:44 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:53 pm
BWri wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 3:24 pm

This is one of those techniques that Tien should have "perfected" years ago. It really shouldn't split power/speed at this late stage in the series but it still does because Tien can't have nice things.
Well it logically makes sense that it would split his power, otherwise it would be a power multiplier technique. But if Tenshinhan learned something like the Kaio-Ken, then combined that with multi-form, he could possibly create many clones just as powerful as the originals without putting undue stress on his body.

Imagine Kaio-Ken x100 + Multi-Form x 100. Each clone is just as powerful as the original Tenshinhan since the power is split between them, and because it's split, he doesn't risk hurting himself with it.
That would make no sense. If Tenshinhan could use the Kaio-ken x100, he should just do that without splitting his bodies up. The split bodies would be weaker, and given Goku's progression this would mean they'd be less able to handle the stress of the Kaio-ken, not more able.

The multi-form is a bad technique. Which is totally fine, that's the role it served in the story. There's no need to try to salvage it just to give him something unique.
The multiplier doesn't really matter. The idea is for Tien to use a healthy "home" body for the clones to return to after they've fought for him and exerted themselves in his place. What Polyphase Avatron was saying is just an extreme example of the idea. If we take a more sensible approach and say Tien learns to split into 8 and knows up to Kaioken x20, same as Goku on Namek then it means each of his clones would be split down to an 1/8 power which would then be offset by a 20x Kaioken boost. This would make each Tien clone other than the homebody 2.5x stronger than the original. It's a lot of work to do something like that, so I imagine its only something he'd do in very specific situations, but depending on how multiform works, he could possibly do this indefinitely, as long as the homebody isn't damaged.

For Polyphase's example, 100 Tien clones as strong as the original could potentially be more useful than a single 100x more powerful Tien in many situations.

If an enemy is too strong for the original Tien, even with 100x Kaioken, then 100 Tien's could potentially attack together and exploit an enemy's blindspot for fatal or near fatal damage as we've seen in DBS.

Also, if Frieza brought another army and Tien wanted to use non-lethal force, it would be easier to do so with 100 multiform clones. They probably wouldn't even need Kaioken to be fair. In general, if a situation called for a lot of really strong guys, then Tien's multiform combo would have things covered.

I think your point about the split bodies not being able to able the stress of 100x Kaioken is a good one.
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Saiga » Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:48 am

Even with that example, though, it doesn't help with the way strength works in DB.

Like, 8 Tenshinhan's that are individually 2.5x as strong as regular Tenshinhan sound good, but they'd be significantly worse than Tenshinhan at x20 Kaio-ken - even setting aside the strain from Kaio-ken.
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:41 am

Well my reasoning was that his body probably couldn't handle higher levels of Kaio-Ken for long, so he uses it and then immediately splits, so he only has 100x power in a single body for less than a second (as much longer than that and he'd probably blow himself up).
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Peach » Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:17 am

Tien's clones would be extremely useful if he fused them all together with the fusion dance.

Instead of adding all the separate halves, they're just mutiplied by a certain multiplier, several times over.

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:33 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:52 pm
Yuji wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 3:02 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:16 pm
No mention of Tenshinhan's Kikōhō? A technique that literally kill you before it kills your opponent?
It was effective in winning him a tournament.
A car won the tournament for Tenshinhan.
He would have lost if he did not do that anyways
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Goku da Silva » Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:00 pm

Pilaf's kiss. :lol:

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by BWri » Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:49 am

Saiga wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:48 am
Even with that example, though, it doesn't help with the way strength works in DB.
With Super's ultra effective "blindspot" mechanic, there's a greater chance for him to get in a lucky shot, unless he's up against an opponent with UI.
Like, 8 Tenshinhan's that are individually 2.5x as strong as regular Tenshinhan sound good, but they'd be significantly worse than Tenshinhan at x20 Kaio-ken - even setting aside the strain from Kaio-ken.
I'm not disagreeing with that, but there would be several situations where the 8 or 100 Tien's are more useful than a single Tien with 20 to 100x extra power even with Dragon Ball's current power mechanics.
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by The Accountant » Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:22 am

Trunks: Burning Attack.

Image

I mean it does look pretty cool in motion, and its usage resulted in one the most flashy sequences in the whole series (, plus I l adore Trunks as a character). But, on its own, not only does it seem pretty ineffective, but also inefficient. Even Freeza remarked about how seemingly pathetic it was. That being said, I'm surprised Freeza didn't take it head on, if it was as feeble as he had claimed. Maybe he was bluffing.

However, I don't think the hand gestures were to trick Freeza into thinking it was a bigger attack than it was, considering Freeza didn't even notice until it the Ki projectile was actually fired. The 'Burning Attack' ended up luring a distracted Freeza into the air, but on its own it seems pretty ineffective. Doesn't mean it is not a good party trick. :angel:

Would love to hear others thoughts on this. Please feel free to disagree.

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:30 pm

How many times did Trunks use that attack, though?
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by BWri » Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:50 pm

The Accountant wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:22 am
Trunks: Burning Attack.
As a grandiose distraction, it worked perfected. On it's own, it seems like a two-handed Big Bang Attack with a flourish. The flourish was fairly quick in the manga. I don't even think Trunks powered up like Vegeta did when he used the Big Bang attack.
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by BWri » Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:47 pm

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I was reading through the color manga and this topic popped into my head again.

Multiform Kaioken would have been useful in a situation like this:

Clone Tien hits Frost with Kikoho and prompts this response which would be no different from this full power Tien who doesn't have Kaioken:

Meanwhile, since Frost is right on the edge boasting about knocking out Clone #1, Tien's second clone uses Kaioken plus Kikoho to catch Frost offguard (like with Semi-Cell) and knock him off the stage.

And since the second clone would be spent from a Kaioken Kikiho combo, Tien would reform into a single fighter and possibly split again if there's no stamina drawback to the technique. Since his base power is so low anyway, compared to foes like Frost, this would be his best strategy for getting eliminations during the ToP. But even if he could only use it to get rid of Frost, it's a big win for Tien and more than he managed to actually do in the manga's tournament.
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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by blacksymbiote » Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:30 am

If I have to pick one, it would be Makankōsappō. It just has too many drawbacks. It's too long to charge, it's easy to dodge, and it's ineffective against the regenerating villains.

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:46 am

Since the question is about ineffective rather than inconvenient (some attacks have inconvenience but have proven effective on occasion), I'd say Yamcha's Sokidan, easily. For all the flashiness and speed of the technique, and the seeming ease at which Yamcha controls the energy ball, it doesn't seem to do much except give the opponent a concussion. If it was a banger in the manga/anime the way it is in FighterZ, it woudl be a different story.
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I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:06 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote:
Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:46 am
Since the question is about ineffective rather than inconvenient (some attacks have inconvenience but have proven effective on occasion), I'd say Yamcha's Sokidan, easily. For all the flashiness and speed of the technique, and the seeming ease at which Yamcha controls the energy ball, it doesn't seem to do much except give the opponent a concussion. If it was a banger in the manga/anime the way it is in FighterZ, it woudl be a different story.
Against most opponents, Soukidan would've been a killer technique, but poor Yamcha was against Kami in human form. Yeah, it doesn't finish the job, but in all fairness, the technique was impressive enough to make Kami get serious and take him out quickly and with dignity. Until that point, Kami was messing around and headbutting his nutsack, then suddenly he recognises Yamcha as a major threat to his mission.

My answer would naturally be "That's Vegeta's technique". The Androids perfected it thanks to infinite stamina, but when has it ever worked for Vegeta himself? It's pretty much the definitive pathetic-last-resort move.

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Re: Most ineffective technique?

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:46 am

Funnily enough, Bejiita no waza wa is only effective in videogames, it was actually extremely effective in Raging Blast or TB 2 or 3, or one of those. In Kakarot is also really useful, but in XV2 is closer to "reality" as it does pretty much nothing, a waste of time and ki.

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