We don't know how it went like, and why Bardock decided on saving Granolah in the first place AND whether he continued destroying the planet afterwards anyway (which would be weird, so doubtful)Magnificent Ponta wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:57 am Is saving a few people from out of a whole planet you're actively a party to destroying really "whitewashing"? For someone like Bardock, this is a dust mote in the balance.
"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
- Magnificent Ponta
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I mean, the planet was destroyed. Even if Bardock specifically stopped participating in destroying the planet once he chanced upon Granolah for whatever reason, he was still destroying it and killing all the people up to that point - he's still a guy who wreaked havoc and killed untold numbers of Cerealians, even if he's responsible for saving a few as well. And in Minus (which is presumably chronologically after this mission, since he returns to Planet Vegeta to die in that story), he's shown having a blast kicking some alien's face in as he destroys their planet too, so it's not like Bardock isn't still a guy who participates in the destruction of planets with gusto, even after this. This therefore seems at this point like a small and (in the bigger picture) deeply ambivalent bit of nuance in Bardock's character rather than a "whitewashing"; I'm fine with that. In fact, better than fine; it sounds right, given what we know about him.Xeogran wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:24 amWe don't know how it went like, and why Bardock decided on saving Granolah in the first place AND whether he continued destroying the planet afterwards anyway (which would be weird, so doubtful)Magnificent Ponta wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:57 am Is saving a few people from out of a whole planet you're actively a party to destroying really "whitewashing"? For someone like Bardock, this is a dust mote in the balance.
You're right that we don't know specifically what Bardock's methods and reasons are, here, though - if his character gets a depiction like 'he systematically refrains from really participating in destruction of planets, he just acts like it, fights a bit for the fun and saves what he can at the end', then yes, that would be a whitewashing. But if it's more like 'he's a Saiyan like others, but with a little more of a humane sense that occasionally moderates his actions and allows him to do things that the common run of Saiyans don't think to do (like in this instance, letting a few survivors remain from a planet)', then it's just basically another way of showing us the things we are already supposed to know about him, albeit in a concrete way that is relevant to this specific story. It should matter to Granolah, but not necessarily to our view of Bardock. We'll have to see, of course.
EDIT: As an alternative, since this arc offers the new idea that Saiyans systematically invading and destroying other planets as "business as usual" was a latter-day development thanks to King Vegeta III and Freeza's clan, it could just be that Bardock doesn't agree with the change and so saves some people from the planets he destroys to spite the powers that be. That would move closer to the 'whitewash', but would still be within the bounds of what we know about his character and what Saiyans can be like without becoming particularly 'Goku-ish' (Vegeta implicitly judges the move negatively as well). Then it would be something of a 'greywash', I guess.
Last edited by Magnificent Ponta on Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I guess we will have to wait until the FOLLOWING release to have the Bardock question answered. Now we should focus on the present until the upcoming chapter is released
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
It was said fifty years ago, indeed. And it'd better if we stick to this one (even though it causes a problem, thanks to Vegeta saying he was a kid when he shouldn't even be born or should be in the incubator), rather than the "forty years", which causes even bigger problems (Bardock would have saved them in AGE 741, two years after Vegeta's destruction).Berserker1921 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:31 am Actually that might be a typo. I could have sworn they said that it was 50 years ago. Isn’t that how the arc starts? I could be wrong.
I'd like to know why Toyotaro isn't being consistent with this.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I wonder if, maybe, Bardock just saved a few people here and there with potential, to fuel something into them hoping they would eventually defeat Freeza. Or he probably did so just cause he didn’t want to blindly follow Freeza’s orders.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
As someone who has, from the start, consistently argued in favor of the "canon" Bardock over the old TV special's depiction of him, the notion of this character being some heroic savior for Granolah and Monaito is still nonsense on the surface. It's one thing for Bardock to care for his family or succumb to parental instincts, it's quite another to have him protect random people he has no connection to.
That said, there's no point in preemptively judging what the manga's doing without context. Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds. The coming chapter (unsurprisingly, given Toyotaro's pacing of late) doesn't even really delve into this stuff and just leaves the plot-moving content on a cliffhanger, as usual.
That said, there's no point in preemptively judging what the manga's doing without context. Maybe it's not as bad as it sounds. The coming chapter (unsurprisingly, given Toyotaro's pacing of late) doesn't even really delve into this stuff and just leaves the plot-moving content on a cliffhanger, as usual.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
This really worries me because it looks like they're going to use Bardock as a way to convince Granolah that the saiyans aren't all bad (as if that's a better argument then the fact that Son Goku is the one that defeated Freeza in the first place, which hasn't come up somehow)
If it's not going to be an altruistic portrayal then I don't know what Monaito hopes to achieve by bringing it up. Would it matter to Granolah if Bardock saved his life even though he still helped otherwise exterminate his race? I will reserve judgement and hope that they make it work, but it doesn't look good to me so far.
If it's not going to be an altruistic portrayal then I don't know what Monaito hopes to achieve by bringing it up. Would it matter to Granolah if Bardock saved his life even though he still helped otherwise exterminate his race? I will reserve judgement and hope that they make it work, but it doesn't look good to me so far.
Last edited by Jack Bz on Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Keikaku master Bardock and in the end it was a "random" guy from the future who got rid of Freeza
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Probably made a deal with Bardock to be spared. I don't think Bardock saved Granolah for virtuous reasons. Maybe Monaito sold out the Cerealeans to Freeza.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:34 pmMaybe Monaito is aware that Bardock actually saved Granola's life somehow? And to repay Bardock at the end of the arc Granola will somehow save Gokuu in a way? That'd be a nice little wrap-around.DiscountDabi wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:29 pm Something is definetly up with Monaito. Him suddently revealing to Granolah that Bardock saved him, and also him saying this:
I wanna see why he didn't tell Granolah about this. Its certainly interesting.Spoiler:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
So what do you think for chapter 77 next month October, do you think Granolah will listen for a change, or will he still be a dick and kill Monite out of no sympathy, and it will bite him back for when he gets to Frieza.
Plus, do you think Goku will know about his father?
Plus, do you think Goku will know about his father?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Trying to reason with someone has never accomplished anything, see Movie 1, where Broly, who could've become an interesting character, just inwardly told Goku to "fuck off" and proceeded to keep screaming like an idiot until the very end.
Should Granola just stop his pointless fight after what the Namekuseijin told? Yes. Can we expect that to happen? No. The disappointment would hit softer that way.
I don't know if he will, but he definitely should know his father at this point. I "can" (?) understand if they don't want Goku to ever meet Bardock, but he should at least know who he was (and I'd also argue Whis should be around to show him actual images).
Should Granola just stop his pointless fight after what the Namekuseijin told? Yes. Can we expect that to happen? No. The disappointment would hit softer that way.
I don't know if he will, but he definitely should know his father at this point. I "can" (?) understand if they don't want Goku to ever meet Bardock, but he should at least know who he was (and I'd also argue Whis should be around to show him actual images).
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There's no way Granolah will intentionally kill Monaito. I guess it could eventually happen by accident, but Granolah definitely cares for him.Young-Jah wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:16 pm So what do you think for chapter 77 next month October, do you think Granolah will listen for a change, or will he still be a dick and kill Monite out of no sympathy, and it will bite him back for when he gets to Frieza.
Plus, do you think Goku will know about his father?
While I expect Goku will know nothing about his father, it's possible Vegeta told him something. They trained together in the RoSaT for 3 years before the Universe 6 tournament. While Goku and Vegeta aren't exactly social butterflies or buddy-buddy, it's something that could've naturally come up.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
3 pictures from Dragon Ball Super chapter 76
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I do hope the next chapter starts right with a full flashback, showing everything they can show in details. I want to see and know exactly what happened, how it happened.
That "forty years ago", though... Timeline be damned.
That "forty years ago", though... Timeline be damned.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
At least that random guy was the heir apparent ruler of his kingdom/nation. Though the story very much treats it as random guy kills Frieza since Trunks couldn't give 2 f**** about the space lizard.
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I love how everyone is down bad for Granolah's Mom
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Oh dear Lord above people are already simping for the new girl.
I will give it two weeks before someone posts a sensual drawing of Gran's mum on the Sexy Fan Art Thread...
I will give it two weeks before someone posts a sensual drawing of Gran's mum on the Sexy Fan Art Thread...
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