Did Kuririn and Yamcha in the 23rd Budokai...

[Mireya]

Surpass Goku and Tenshinhan from the 22nd by a lot?

I know the Daizenshuu number for Goku and Ten are both 180 and that Yamcha and Kuririn 5 years later are in that vicinity, but I don't know. I've always had the impression Yamcha and Kuririn in the 23rd Budokai are in another level compared to the aforementioned warriors.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

It's just how the power levels work. Roshi too is supposed to be greatly behind the younger Z Fighters, but come the Saiyan Saga and he's well over half of Tenshinhan's power. There wasn't much thought into how they figures would work with the story before.

Now Yamcha does have a power level flat out lower than 22TB Goku and Tien's, but I'd think that either wasn't his full power or the people making the power levels made a miscalculation.

[Lionel]

Both of them were able to follow Goku and Tenshinhan's movements as the semi-finalists were utilising strength amounts comparable to the Daimou battle in Central City. Krillin suggested that Tenshinhan may be too strong after he swiftly dispatched Tao Pai Pai. What I can infer from these circumstances is that the pair were weaker but not by too terrible an amount. I could see them taking on and defeating Piccolo Daimou when he was old, especially Krillin.

In my opinion, if they can handle an aged Daimou then by extension 22nd Goku and Tenshinhan should be no problem.

[PowerLevel Science]

Re-reading the manga right now.

I don't know. For me, they reaching (and surpassed) Piccolo Daimao's tier later, training with KamiSama before the saiyans arrive.

[miguelnuva1]

Kuririn should be at least equal to young King Piccolo as Piccolo Jr thought taking over the airport wouldn't be as easy as he thought from fighting Kuririn.

[dragonball0900]

I believe they weren't at King Piccolo's level yet.

They were amazed by Weighted Goku's speed, calling it not normal, although they were strong enough to see him (Tien was even faster to the point that Krillin and Yamcha could not see him at all).

Weighted Goku has the same speed as Kid Goku when he fought King Piccolo. King Piccolo was around Kid Goku's tier.

This means Yamcha and Krillin were still not on King Piccolo's level. But they were strong enough to see the movements of someone around that tier, so they should be far stronger than 22nd Goku and Tien. Stronger than even Old King Piccolo I would say.

[Darkprince410]

They were amazed by Weighted Goku's speed, calling it not normal, although they were strong enough to see him (Tien was even faster to the point that Krillin and Yamcha could not see him at all).

You misunderstood what was said. They weren't saying Goku's speed wasn't normal. They were saying that Goku and Tenshinhan weren't normal for referring to that kind of speed as "slow".

Spoiler:

Kuririn and Yamcha both may be at that same speed as Goku (the fact that they can keep track of him without any indication of issue supports that), but are just shocked to learn Goku and Tenshinhan consider that speed as slow to them.

[ZombieVito]

Yamcha didn't since he's at 177 during Raditz's arrival.

Krillin is at 206 during that time so I bet he did surpass them at the 23rd TB. I have him at 195 during that tournament.

[Koitsukai]

Yamcha didn't since he's at 177 during Raditz's arrival.

Krillin is at 206 during that time so I bet he did surpass them at the 23rd TB. I have him at 195 during that tournament.

I think you are making the same mistake as Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa on Earth

Yamcha was at rest when he was scoutered, he can probably go much higher than that.

[miguelnuva1]

Yamcha didn't since he's at 177 during Raditz's arrival.

Krillin is at 206 during that time so I bet he did surpass them at the 23rd TB. I have him at 195 during that tournament.

I think you are making the same mistake as Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa on Earth

Yamcha was at rest when he was scoutered, he can probably go much higher than that.

Toriyama doesn't give supressed levels until they z fighters fight the saiyans. It's why Goku and Piccolo were both 300+ when they were resting.

[Koitsukai]

Yamcha didn't since he's at 177 during Raditz's arrival.

Krillin is at 206 during that time so I bet he did surpass them at the 23rd TB. I have him at 195 during that tournament.

I think you are making the same mistake as Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa on Earth

Yamcha was at rest when he was scoutered, he can probably go much higher than that.

Toriyama doesn't give supressed levels until they z fighters fight the saiyans. It's why Goku and Piccolo were both 300+ when they were resting.

And their real power was +400...

[ZombieVito]

I think you are making the same mistake as Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa on Earth

Yamcha was at rest when he was scoutered, he can probably go much higher than that.

Toriyama doesn't give supressed levels until they z fighters fight the saiyans. It's why Goku and Piccolo were both 300+ when they were resting.

And their real power was +400...

And that's explained in the story. They were wearing their weighted clothes.

[Koitsukai]

Toriyama doesn't give supressed levels until they z fighters fight the saiyans. It's why Goku and Piccolo were both 300+ when they were resting.

And their real power was +400...

And that's explained in the story. They were wearing their weighted clothes.

And they didn't have anything left but super attacks and teamwork, scouters cannot see beyond any type of supressions, apparently. The point is Yamcha probably can go higher than whatever he was at while he was watching Puar making him a sandwich, lying on his ass.

[DBZAOTA482]

Yes. All the finalists of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai are stronger than the finalists of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai.

[ZombieVito]

And their real power was +400...

And that's explained in the story. They were wearing their weighted clothes.

And they didn't have anything left but super attacks and teamwork, scouters cannot see beyond any type of supressions, apparently. The point is Yamcha probably can go higher than whatever he was at while he was watching Puar making him a sandwich, lying on his ass.

Super attacks amplify Ki. It's not their normal power.

[miguelnuva1]

And their real power was +400...

And that's explained in the story. They were wearing their weighted clothes.

And they didn't have anything left but super attacks and teamwork, scouters cannot see beyond any type of supressions, apparently. The point is Yamcha probably can go higher than whatever he was at while he was watching Puar making him a sandwich, lying on his ass.

Toriyama is not showing us supressed powers, he's showing us her they compare to Goku and Piccolo at 400+.

[Mireya]

They were amazed by Weighted Goku's speed, calling it not normal, although they were strong enough to see him (Tien was even faster to the point that Krillin and Yamcha could not see him at all).

You misunderstood what was said. They weren't saying Goku's speed wasn't normal. They were saying that Goku and Tenshinhan weren't normal for referring to that kind of speed as "slow".

Spoiler:

Kuririn and Yamcha both may be at that same speed as Goku (the fact that they can keep track of him without any indication of issue supports that), but are just shocked to learn Goku and Tenshinhan consider that speed as slow to them.

Actually, Tenshinhan was the only one that considered that speed as slow. Goku didn't say one word about it. He didn't hint that he could go beyond that either. And then Kuririn said "they aren't normal", clearly hinting at Goku's speed also being beyond normal to him, since, again, they weren't under the impression Goku considered that as slow or that he could go beyond that.

[dragonball0900]

They were amazed by Weighted Goku's speed, calling it not normal, although they were strong enough to see him (Tien was even faster to the point that Krillin and Yamcha could not see him at all).

You misunderstood what was said. They weren't saying Goku's speed wasn't normal. They were saying that Goku and Tenshinhan weren't normal for referring to that kind of speed as "slow".

Spoiler:

Kuririn and Yamcha both may be at that same speed as Goku (the fact that they can keep track of him without any indication of issue supports that), but are just shocked to learn Goku and Tenshinhan consider that speed as slow to them.

Krillin and Yamcha said "they" as in both Goku and Tien aren't normal to them. Such a quote is obviously talking about both of their levels.

This means Weighted Goku's speed, which is equal to Kid Goku's (against King Piccolo) speed, is above Yamcha and Krillin's speed.

By that logic, Kid Goku is faster than Yamcha and Krillin, therefore he is stronger than both, but not to the point that it would be a huge difference given that both were still able to see Weighted Goku.

[Darkprince410]

Krillin and Yamcha said "they" as in both Goku and Tien aren't normal to them. Such a quote is obviously talking about both of their levels.

This means Weighted Goku's speed, which is equal to Kid Goku's (against King Piccolo) speed, is above Yamcha and Krillin's speed.

By that logic, Kid Goku is faster than Yamcha and Krillin, therefore he is stronger than both, but not to the point that it would be a huge difference given that both were still able to see Weighted Goku.

As in they said they weren't normal for considering that speed slow, not for their speed to already be above them.

[dragonball0900]

Krillin and Yamcha said "they" as in both Goku and Tien aren't normal to them. Such a quote is obviously talking about both of their levels.

This means Weighted Goku's speed, which is equal to Kid Goku's (against King Piccolo) speed, is above Yamcha and Krillin's speed.

By that logic, Kid Goku is faster than Yamcha and Krillin, therefore he is stronger than both, but not to the point that it would be a huge difference given that both were still able to see Weighted Goku.

As in they said they weren't normal for considering that speed slow, not for their speed to already be above them.

That doesn't make sense.

Why would they even say Goku is not normal if his speed was still lower or around their own? If anything, they should have said that only Tien is not normal since he is the one that truly considered that speed as slow given he was even faster than that. There wouldn't be any need for calling Goku not normal going by your logic.