Now that Piccolo is a real contender again, why do you think he chose to skip on the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai?

[LoganForkHands73]

Piccolo sits out of the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai (the one where Goku first encounters Uub in the flesh), preferring to observe how strong the others have become. When the epilogue arc was written, there was no indication that Piccolo had significantly improved since the Buu arc, which truly relegated him to back-bencher status among the new generation of Z-Warriors. In the earlier tournament that kicks off said arc, Piccolo is too weak and afraid to throw a single punch at Shin.

However, in light of Super Hero, Piccolo has a new transformation that supposedly rivals Goku and Vegeta at their peaks. While I have no doubt that Goku, Vegeta and Gohan (who, fortunately for everyone, skips out on the final tournament) would probably beat Piccolo, it's now harder to believe that Piccolo would be content with sitting back and watching. He still has a true warrior's heart and I can imagine he'd be happy to at least give Goten and Trunks a lesson in humility after all the shit they've put him through.

Of course, it's not out-of-character for him to sit back and observe either. Considering that the Dragon Gang have an informal agreement to not transform in public and also have to pretend to lose to Mr. Satan at the end of every tournament, maybe Piccolo wasn't as confident in his base power compared to the Saiyans. Maybe he was more interested in seeing Pan's performance after their training together and didn't want to be forced in a situation where he had to humiliate her. All of this additional context is pure retcon offal that was never in consideration in the original manga. The overarching question always circles back to how Toriyama plans to address the ending of the original manga, whether he's gonna retcon some of the details, etc. so this is another thing he may be forced to address somehow.

[Yuji]

Are we assuming he's not left behind again in whichever arcs they manage to fit between SH and EoZ?

[Hugo Boss]

Dragon Ball's final chapter is a headache to powerlevel enthusiasts, lol. I think at this point Toriyama is not caring if what he is writing today perfectly aligns with everything he wrote on the past, unless he is having fun with it.

[ZombieVito]

Toriyama is probably going to rewrite EoZ once Super catches up to it.

Or Piccolo thinks that the tournament is a charade and simply chooses to not participate.

[Koitsukai]

I can see Piccolo going "if I'm in then I'll have to transform into that orange thing eventually, and people might freak out", tying it to his first experience in the tournament.

[Hellspawn28]

He probably didn't want too.

[JulieYBM]

Piccolo had food poisoning and it was giving him the shits constantly and he feared that any sudden movements would lead to him shitting himself, which he clearly would not like so he made the calculated decision to not enter the Twenty-Eighth Tenka-ichi Budou-kai.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The way things work, I can totally see Piccolo being left in the dust again by the time of the Budokai. I don't think AT is really concerned with the details of the original ending though - He's already changed Bulma growing old and not seeing Goku for 5 years.

Piccolo had food poisoning and it was giving him the shits constantly and he feared that any sudden movements would lead to him shitting himself, which he clearly would not like so he made the calculated decision to not enter the Twenty-Eighth Tenka-ichi Budou-kai.

Makes sense. He was looking kinda green that day.

[Kendamu]

He probably didn't want too.

I second this!

Some martial artists like tournaments. Some don't. Some compete for awhile then stop. Others keep competing.

Some martial arts schools build their entire business off combat sports! Others might not even have or focus on a competitive element!

Before this I as thinking maybe they entered the 28th Budokai with their "no transforming" rule from the last time they competed but that didn't stop Piccolo before.

So I agree with "he probably didn't want to."

[coola]

With everything that went on in Super, End of Z is making less and less sense anyway, why would Goku be excited about Kid Buu reincarnation, when he have Beerus, Broly, Freeza and all those other universes around?

[VegettoEX]

With everything that went on in Super, End of Z is making less and less sense anyway, why would Goku be excited about Kid Buu reincarnation, when he have Beerus, Broly, Freeza and all those other universes around?

Oob is someone that is already on Earth (which means readily accessible), and Goku is transitioning into a teacher role himself here* by this point. Much like with wanting to leave Earth's protection and success to the kids during the fight with Boo years earlier, this is another potential successor candidate he can get himself invested in. This all still works totally fine!

(*See also: training Neko Majin Z! )

[Koitsukai]

With everything that went on in Super, End of Z is making less and less sense anyway, why would Goku be excited about Kid Buu reincarnation, when he have Beerus, Broly, Freeza and all those other universes around?

The Moro arc hinted at Uub having a vast pool of divine ki, one that could provide more than SSBE Vegeta could.
So if that can be transformed into actual battle power, his potential would far surpass Buu's and actually be on Vegeta's level from one arc prior to unlocking UE.
Thing is, I don't think Goku is aware he got that god ki boost from Uub, he does know that the Dai's missing god ki went to Kid Buu, so Uub might've been born with it. I can see Goku connecting the dots prior to meeting Vegeta and telling him why he's participating in the tourney.

So, the retcon would mean Goku is excited because a 10 year old has potential to be as strong as Vegeta before training with Beerus. Broly, needed to see his father get killed to reach the level Uub has in his back pocket, and Freeza required 10 years of training to surpass the power Uub used to help Goku beat Moro.

[Rafa Fast]

He's already changed Bulma growing old and not seeing Goku for 5 years.

Maybe they can try to come up with a bizarre soluton for the former.
But for the latter...Really? I'm not good at the Age subject, but from what I researched, Granolla arc takes place in age 781, the beginning of that arc was the last time where Goku and Bulma saw each other...(at least on-screen I guess?)
And EoZ is around 784, so...yeah XD
But I wonder, where it's said or implied that Granolla is around 781? I can't remember anything, my bad.

[Lionel]

Well Piccolo didn't have the same fierce competitive drive that was galvanising him to test his mettle against others through the Saiyan to Cell arcs. Many speculate that it might have something to do with the influence Kami had on him. In the last arc of Z and throughout the early portions of Super he seemed more domesticated, inclined towards entrusting others with handling the situation and only involving himself if either Goku/Vegeta were absent or his presence was requested -- as in the cases of the two tournaments.

I too am almost certain that Piccolo will probably get left in the dust again come the 28th tournament. Shenron was a convenient, previously unexplored pathway for developing his strength in a quick and efficient manner. Unless Shenron could again unlock his potential sometime down the road or he manages to unlock a new form à la Freeza by training in the ROSAT or with Gohan then his prospects don't look too good. Also he may have been more interested to see how this new generation of fighters would handle themselves in a fighting event like the world tournament.

[Mireya]

I don't think Piccolo likes a Tournament setting. He agreed in the 25th tournament that it looks more like a festival and said the soul of the competition is smaller. In the 25th Budokai, it had all a special moment of them seeing Goku again after 7 years, that drive doesn't exist in the 28th Budokai. Plus, since he knew about Oob and knew that Goku vs Oob would be the most special fight, he likely knew of Goku's reason into joining the tournament from the get go, so he probably didn't see much reason to participate, I think. He'd probably find more interesting looking in the background how Pan and Goten fare in it. Even Vegeta likely withdrew once he knew of Goku's true reasons imo, with the anime featuring Vegeta complementing that in a tournament like this they can't utilize their full power.

According to the anime, it had more to do with power, as Piccolo hinted he couldn't go against them anymore. The obvious explanation is simply that Toriyama didn't envision Piccolo on Goku and Vegeta's level and Super wasn't a thing on anyone's mind then.

[Trouser]

Goku is going to get another asspull form. Vegeta too.

Sadly, our precious EoZ doesn't make sense anymore.

[LoganForkHands73]

Sorry for basically abandoning the thread for a while, I just didn't think Julie's comment about Piccolo having the shits could be topped

I don't think Piccolo likes a Tournament setting. He agreed in the 25th tournament that it looks more like a festival and said the soul of the competition is smaller. In the 25th Budokai, it had all a special moment of them seeing Goku again after 7 years, that drive doesn't exist in the 28th Budokai. Plus, since he knew about Oob and knew that Goku vs Oob would be the most special fight, he likely knew of Goku's reason into joining the tournament from the get go, so he probably didn't see much reason to participate, I think. He'd probably find more interesting looking in the background how Pan and Goten fare in it. Even Vegeta likely withdrew once he knew of Goku's true reasons imo, with the anime featuring Vegeta complementing that in a tournament like this they can't utilize their full power.

According to the anime, it had more to do with power, as Piccolo hinted he couldn't go against them anymore. The obvious explanation is simply that Toriyama didn't envision Piccolo on Goku and Vegeta's level and Super wasn't a thing on anyone's mind then.

It depends, I think Piccolo enjoys tournament settings almost as much as Goku, he and the others just weren't fans of how corporate the Tenkaichi Budokai became after Mr. Satan took over. When Goku told him about the Tournament of Power, he was genuinely psyched for it beyond the obligation of helping his universe survive. But yeah, him wanting to see the result of Goku vs. Uub definitely played a part in his decision to withdraw from the 28th TB.

Well Piccolo didn't have the same fierce competitive drive that was galvanising him to test his mettle against others through the Saiyan to Cell arcs. Many speculate that it might have something to do with the influence Kami had on him. In the last arc of Z and throughout the early portions of Super he seemed more domesticated, inclined towards entrusting others with handling the situation and only involving himself if either Goku/Vegeta were absent or his presence was requested -- as in the cases of the two tournaments.

I too am almost certain that Piccolo will probably get left in the dust again come the 28th tournament. Shenron was a convenient, previously unexplored pathway for developing his strength in a quick and efficient manner. Unless Shenron could again unlock his potential sometime down the road or he manages to unlock a new form à la Freeza by training in the ROSAT or with Gohan then his prospects don't look too good. Also he may have been more interested to see how this new generation of fighters would handle themselves in a fighting event like the world tournament.

Kami's influence definitely dampened his competitive drive, though we still see sparks of it in Super. He already had a pretty insane power boost just before the Tournament of Power that put him on the same level as a suppressed Gohan. I'd like to believe that getting a genuine top-tier transformation of his own would reawaken his eye of the tiger, but I have to admit, I can't see Orange Piccolo matching up to any of the Saiyans' strongest forms. Considering the means to achieve it, Orange seems to already have a short shelf life compared to U.I., U.E., Beast, Black Freeza, or even Super Saiyan Blue. Holding back Cell Max was impressive, but Piccolo outright admitted that his gigantification was a bluff, like a peacock's feathers -- in reality, he was barely staying alive throughout that entire struggle.

Re: What makes Uub so damn special?
As said, Toyotaro covered this pretty well in the Super manga with the reveal that Uub has this huge well of divine ki. Goku has met many more technically impressive fighters that match his competitive energy, but they all come with caveats: Beerus is still simply way too far above Goku, Freeza is still evil, Hit is busy being an assassin in a parallel universe, Jiren is busy being a superhero in another parallel universe, Broly can't unleash his full power without going berserk, Granolah only has three years left to live and doesn't really seem like the sporting type outside of his revenge quest... Though the lead-up to it was fairly contrived, Goku expressing his frustrations about this to Moro is still one of my favourite scenes in all of Super -- it's the equivalent of a guy wondering "how come I never meet any nice girls?"

Uub finally provides the answer that Goku's been searching for throughout Super. The only caveat is that he lacks training, which can be quickly remedied. Even in an untrained state, a quick shoulder massage from the Grand Kaioshin somehow allowed Uub to produce more divine ki than Goku, Vegeta and all the other Z-Warriors combined. No way Goku's gonna pass over that kind of potential.

[BWri]

Kami's influence definitely dampened his competitive drive, though we still see sparks of it in Super. He already had a pretty insane power boost just before the Tournament of Power that put him on the same level as a suppressed Gohan. I'd like to believe that getting a genuine top-tier transformation of his own would reawaken his eye of the tiger, but I have to admit, I can't see Orange Piccolo matching up to any of the Saiyans' strongest forms. Considering the means to achieve it, Orange seems to already have a short shelf life compared to U.I., U.E., Beast, Black Freeza, or even Super Saiyan Blue. Holding back Cell Max was impressive, but Piccolo outright admitted that his gigantification was a bluff, like a peacock's feathers -- in reality, he was barely staying alive throughout that entire struggle.

I definitely think fusing with Kami killed some of Piccolo's competitive drive. It was blatant in Z but less so in Super (outside of the anime). I'm not sure how you can say Orange has a short self life compared to the other forms though. Every form you mentioned outside of Black Frieza and Beast Gohan has struggled, been humbled, or outright lost at some point right after it debuted. I don't see how Orange Piccolo is any different. Is it because Piccolo's potential is seemingly lower than the other fighters?

[ZombieVito]

Kami's influence definitely dampened his competitive drive, though we still see sparks of it in Super. He already had a pretty insane power boost just before the Tournament of Power that put him on the same level as a suppressed Gohan. I'd like to believe that getting a genuine top-tier transformation of his own would reawaken his eye of the tiger, but I have to admit, I can't see Orange Piccolo matching up to any of the Saiyans' strongest forms. Considering the means to achieve it, Orange seems to already have a short shelf life compared to U.I., U.E., Beast, Black Freeza, or even Super Saiyan Blue. Holding back Cell Max was impressive, but Piccolo outright admitted that his gigantification was a bluff, like a peacock's feathers -- in reality, he was barely staying alive throughout that entire struggle.

Toriyama literally said Orange put Piccolo on par with Goku.

[LoganForkHands73]

Kami's influence definitely dampened his competitive drive, though we still see sparks of it in Super. He already had a pretty insane power boost just before the Tournament of Power that put him on the same level as a suppressed Gohan. I'd like to believe that getting a genuine top-tier transformation of his own would reawaken his eye of the tiger, but I have to admit, I can't see Orange Piccolo matching up to any of the Saiyans' strongest forms. Considering the means to achieve it, Orange seems to already have a short shelf life compared to U.I., U.E., Beast, Black Freeza, or even Super Saiyan Blue. Holding back Cell Max was impressive, but Piccolo outright admitted that his gigantification was a bluff, like a peacock's feathers -- in reality, he was barely staying alive throughout that entire struggle.

I definitely think fusing with Kami killed some of Piccolo's competitive drive. It was blatant in Z but less so in Super (outside of the anime). I'm not sure how you can say Orange has a short self life compared to the other forms though. Every form you mentioned outside of Black Frieza and Beast Gohan has struggled, been humbled, or outright lost at some point right after it debuted. I don't see how Orange Piccolo is any different. Is it because Piccolo's potential is seemingly lower than the other fighters?

Maybe I was being harsh, it's true that no form is invincible for long, but there was clearly a wide gulf in power between Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan which made the former seem less impressive than it would've been. You're right that there's no reason Piccolo couldn't evolve it though.

Toriyama literally said Orange put Piccolo on par with Goku.

He was pretty vague about it though, and my comment was more about the way the forms are presented. While I'd like to believe he's on par with Goku at his current peak, I have a feeling it was intended as a broad, general statement to mean they're in a roughly similar ballpark.