When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my head is

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by DefinitiveDubs » Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:41 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:00 am
supersaiyamangod wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:14 am But the American version of goku is a rewrite of his character personality etc. I don’t consider that goku.
People really overexaggerate the hell out of this.

Goku in the English dub has been pretty much accurate since Kai, so going on 13 years now. Even before that the representation of Goku in the original Dragon Ball dub wasn't too far off (most of the time). Even the Z dub occasionally got Goku right when the animation kind of forced them too (i.e scenes where it's hard to shove silver age comic book drivel down his mouth when he's obviously being shown as a bumpkin)

Whether Schemmel's performance is actually any good is up for debate. I thought he's been fine since the Buu saga dub but as far as portraying an accurate version, he's been allowed to do that for over a decade now.
The problem is Kai is not the original Z. Z fans are stuck with the "hope of the universe" version of Goku. In Kai, yes, Schemmel's Goku is very accurate. Any "heroic" qualities are in the Japanese version as well, which is already written differently from the manga.

I also think in general, people don't want to admit Schemmel's Goku is good because Schemmel himself has historically been kind of a douche.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by supersaiyamangod » Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:18 am

DefinitiveDubs wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:41 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:00 am
supersaiyamangod wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:14 am But the American version of goku is a rewrite of his character personality etc. I don’t consider that goku.
People really overexaggerate the hell out of this.

Goku in the English dub has been pretty much accurate since Kai, so going on 13 years now. Even before that the representation of Goku in the original Dragon Ball dub wasn't too far off (most of the time). Even the Z dub occasionally got Goku right when the animation kind of forced them too (i.e scenes where it's hard to shove silver age comic book drivel down his mouth when he's obviously being shown as a bumpkin)

Whether Schemmel's performance is actually any good is up for debate. I thought he's been fine since the Buu saga dub but as far as portraying an accurate version, he's been allowed to do that for over a decade now.
The problem is Kai is not the original Z. Z fans are stuck with the "hope of the universe" version of Goku. In Kai, yes, Schemmel's Goku is very accurate. Any "heroic" qualities are in the Japanese version as well, which is already written differently from the manga.

I also think in general, people don't want to admit Schemmel's Goku is good because Schemmel himself has historically been kind of a douche.
No Sean goku voice is grating as goku he could do a goku that is more fitting and is cowboy bebop caliber to me. Which is disappointing to me the dub cast hasn’t tried to do that kind of dub voice direction script and all.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:16 am

DefinitiveDubs wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:41 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:00 am
supersaiyamangod wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:14 am But the American version of goku is a rewrite of his character personality etc. I don’t consider that goku.
People really overexaggerate the hell out of this.

Goku in the English dub has been pretty much accurate since Kai, so going on 13 years now. Even before that the representation of Goku in the original Dragon Ball dub wasn't too far off (most of the time). Even the Z dub occasionally got Goku right when the animation kind of forced them too (i.e scenes where it's hard to shove silver age comic book drivel down his mouth when he's obviously being shown as a bumpkin)

Whether Schemmel's performance is actually any good is up for debate. I thought he's been fine since the Buu saga dub but as far as portraying an accurate version, he's been allowed to do that for over a decade now.
The problem is Kai is not the original Z. Z fans are stuck with the "hope of the universe" version of Goku. In Kai, yes, Schemmel's Goku is very accurate. Any "heroic" qualities are in the Japanese version as well, which is already written differently from the manga.

I also think in general, people don't want to admit Schemmel's Goku is good because Schemmel himself has historically been kind of a douche.
Not thy case for me. Nothing against Schemmel--I don't know the guy in real life. He might be just the nicest person ever. But I can't stand his "King Kai" and while there's nothing particularly wrong with his Goku when speaking normally, I think the lighthearted tone he puts on sounds disingenuous and the scream makes me want to put it on mute.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by Majin Buu » Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:26 pm

supersaiyamangod wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:09 pm @TheGreatness25 you know what’s ironic I think if Sean tried he could do a better goku screams and all but instead he gives us the same slop same for his ear piercing king Kai he ruined that character.
To be fair to Schemmel, his Kaio is an imitation of a performance that wasn't good to begin with. Kaio has never had a good English voice.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by eledoremassis02 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:55 pm

I always enjoyed Schemmel serious Goku. I always felt his goofy side of Goku felt forced, even in the newer dubs and it just became a huge turnoff to me. Ian Corlett I think had the best balance. And while I love Kelamis, I wouldnt not disagree that he work wasnt as solid thruout as Corletts was

When I read the manga tho, I do hear Kelamis.
Majin Buu wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:26 pm
supersaiyamangod wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:09 pm @TheGreatness25 you know what’s ironic I think if Sean tried he could do a better goku screams and all but instead he gives us the same slop same for his ear piercing king Kai he ruined that character.
To be fair to Schemmel, his Kaio is an imitation of a performance that wasn't good to begin with. Kaio has never had a good English voice.
Best we got, atleast for me, was Bang Zooms Kaio

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by supersaiyamangod » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:58 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:55 pm I always enjoyed Schemmel serious Goku. I always felt his goofy side of Goku felt forced, even in the newer dubs and it just became a huge turnoff to me. Ian Corlett I think had the best balance. And while I love Kelamis, I wouldnt not disagree that he work wasnt as solid thruout as Corletts was

When I read the manga tho, I do hear Kelamis.
Majin Buu wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:26 pm
supersaiyamangod wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:09 pm @TheGreatness25 you know what’s ironic I think if Sean tried he could do a better goku screams and all but instead he gives us the same slop same for his ear piercing king Kai he ruined that character.
To be fair to Schemmel, his Kaio is an imitation of a performance that wasn't good to begin with. Kaio has never had a good English voice.
Best we got, atleast for me, was Bang Zooms Kaio
Bang zooms kaio is very good and it makes me mad at funimation 10 fold for still giving us the awful imitation of the awful ocean voice. I’m tossed on I’ve Sean was given proper direction Would his goku be manga goku. i think so I think minus some voices most of funi/crunchyroll’s dub issues is direction no question. a superior dub is possible from them but they as Chris Sabat’s vegeta says in the games are resting of their laurels.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by eledoremassis02 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:59 pm

supersaiyamangod wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:58 pm
eledoremassis02 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:55 pm I always enjoyed Schemmel serious Goku. I always felt his goofy side of Goku felt forced, even in the newer dubs and it just became a huge turnoff to me. Ian Corlett I think had the best balance. And while I love Kelamis, I wouldnt not disagree that he work wasnt as solid thruout as Corletts was

When I read the manga tho, I do hear Kelamis.
Majin Buu wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:26 pm

To be fair to Schemmel, his Kaio is an imitation of a performance that wasn't good to begin with. Kaio has never had a good English voice.
Best we got, atleast for me, was Bang Zooms Kaio
Bang zooms kaio is very good and it makes me mad at funimation 10 fold for still giving us the awful imitation of the awful ocean voice. I’m tossed on I’ve Sean was given proper direction Would his goku be manga goku. i think so I think minus some voices most of funi/crunchyroll’s dub issues is direction no question. a superior dub is possible from them but they as Chris Sabat’s vegeta says in the games are resting of their laurels.
Has there ever been a reasoning for keeping Kaios voice the same for Kai? It does feel a little counter productive given the changes in some other "more cartoony" voices.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:11 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:59 pm

Has there ever been a reasoning for keeping Kaios voice the same for Kai? It does feel a little counter productive given the changes in some other "more cartoony" voices.
Based on that one video I think Sabat just thinks their casting for Kaio is better than the Japanese and they have no reason to change it.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by supersaiyamangod » Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:49 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:11 pm
eledoremassis02 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:59 pm

Has there ever been a reasoning for keeping Kaios voice the same for Kai? It does feel a little counter productive given the changes in some other "more cartoony" voices.
Based on that one video I think Sabat just thinks their casting for Kaio is better than the Japanese and they have no reason to change it.
Chris sabat has dumb ego and thought process he doesn’t get the point kaio’s voice he’s supposed to sound wise. Chris sabat shouldn’t have been the voice director for the dragon ball franchise that was a big mistake.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:15 pm

I mean I've seen takes even from sub fans about not liking monotone King Kai of the Japanese version, even for the main series Z performance before Yanami's voice deteriorated.
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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by supersaiyamangod » Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:58 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:15 pm I mean I've seen takes even from sub fans about not liking monotone King Kai of the Japanese version, even for the main series Z performance before Yanami's voice deteriorated.
Yeah but anything is better than Sean’s take.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:16 am

Schemmel's Kaio is a throwback performance in every respect, it's one of the few remnants of bygone circa 1999 FUNimation dubbing practices where the cast was directed to more or less imitate the Ocean VA's (because they had taken dubbing in house to cut down costs from when they'd been outsourcing to Ocean in the first two seasons) Like of course Sabat doing (poor) impressions of Brian Drummond's Vegeta and Scott McNeil's Piccolo, Linda Young imitating Pauline Newstone's Freeza. Sonny Strait trying to initially imitate Terry Klassen's Krillin and so on. They were cast with that thinking in mind by Barry Watson and co, and while he has improved significantly as Goku from those days (Listening to his early stuff from the Ginyu/Freeza eps, good lord) his Kaio still sounds pretty much the same as it did back in 1999, an impression of the Ocean VA.
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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by ClutchBangstrip » Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:53 am

I guess this all depends on how and where you were exposed to DB.

For people 'round my way, when you listen to Goku asking Trunks about giving Mai mouth to mouth, then cut to Goku during Ultra Instinct, you realize, "there can be only one". The range is so massive and convincing throughout Goku's emotional spectrum.

It's a primary reason why rappers like Big Sean pay their respects to Sean Schemmel. It's legendary how he voices a character like Goku who can be a goof ball, a bad ass, or a caring family member at the drop of a hat. It's like voicing Optimus Prime and a parodied version of Optimus prime, but doing the parodied version in such a way that it doesn't break character at all, both sound believable. No other VA I've heard pulls this off. Goku always sounds like an eternal joke or an eternal valley boy, it's just never as convincing and restricted in its range.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by NitroEX » Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:10 am

I think what OP was getting at is the youthful sound of MasakoX Goku and how that matches the general vibe of Nozawa's, which is partially a byproduct of her being a woman and not having a masculine voice, but there's also the characterization aspect that goes along with it; both are able to represent Goku's naive and lighthearted side arguably better than most of the adult English VAs. It's obvious MasakoX has a uniquely boyish voice which gives him an edge in portraying that sillier side of Goku and helps his Abridged version of the character be as funny as it is.

While I don't agree that MasakoX is in any way a perfect English Goku, I don't think his involvement in an Abridged series is enough to disqualify him. He can obviously portray the characterization well enough to be a contender, and he sounds heroic enough when he wants to be, but where I think he lacks in ways that Nozawa does not (along with some of the other English VAs) is in the anger and yelling side of the performance. In that regard, Peter Kelamis has displayed that he's a more capable match for Nozawa than MasakoX will frankly ever be, and he's also excelled in the lighthearted portrayal of the character for that matter.

Some will say Schemmel matches this too but, in my opinion, he can go overboard at times with the yelling and there can be a feeling of disconnect in how he portrays his naive Goku vs his angry and serious Goku. Some might say writing is to blame, or that it's the lingering and inconsistent direction he's gotten over the years but, from my perspective, his modern Goku just has a very disjointed feel to it that I don't get from most other portrayals of Goku. It's almost like he's playing Goku with a split personality at times. Some might be fine with that but I find it less than ideal.
I would say that's more or less been the consensus around here since Kai. I think there's still a minority of vocal sub elitists that still feel Schemmel doesn't understand Goku, but that's what they are, a minority. The vast majority now at least respect the work Schemmel puts in, and rightly so, because he does everything in his power to do Goku justice, especially during the comedic moments. I would go as far as to say the Super dub, for all its flaws has given us Schemmel's best work as Goku.
I don't recall where but he has been vocal in the past about doing his own thing for Goku and not following in Nozawa's footsteps, which is fine for his voice and casting since he can't really match Nozawa. As for characterization though, I do think his "understanding" of the character came a little late and because of that, he probably has a hard time adjusting to a different direction for the character and there's still some unintentional awkwardness because of that. He's also kind of locked into expectations more so than other English VAs due to the exposure of his previous work. Sabat even talked about how the creative decisions for Kai were heavily influenced by what people were used to and came to expect. They didn't want to rock the boat too much and it shows regardless of how much more accurate it ended up being. Again, good enough for some but not really an ideal situation.
Abridged is an intentional parody, the same can't be said for Funimation's dub, which didnt set out to be a parody and only made things up because they received poor translations from TOEI.
Not entirely. Funimation set out with the goal to heavily localize and adapt the series by following in the footsteps of what was successful prior.

The translations given to them from Toei were poor, but that wasn't the reason they geared their product in the way they did. They changed things because they didn't think the original material was fit for US kid's TV and basically couldn't be sold to anyone except niche anime fans on home video.

Not only that, but Ocean used those same poor translations just fine when coming up with scripts for Pioneer's movie dubs. Funimation didn't have the motive to do the same thing in-house until Kai, but even then there were problems inherited.
TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:31 pm
ABED wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:31 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:26 pm I can honestly day that most voices in Abridged--especially Vegeta's and Piccolo's--were delivered so much better than their official Funimation dub counterparts.
This is a literal impossibility since they weren't voicing the same characters. This isn't a matter of me not liking Abridged (my dislike of Abridged is well known so no need to reiterate it), it's a simple fact that DBZA is a parody, so Vegeta and Abridged Vegeta aren't the same character.
So because the Abridged cast doing a parody, that somehow means that their line delivery couldn't possibly sound better and more natural than Funimation's? Also, let me ask you: what was the difference between Funimation's dub and Abridged, and Funimation's dub and the Japanese version? If you ask me, Funimation was doing its own parody.
I won't get into the parody vs Z dub argument (though there's enough evidence of Sabat and other directors improvising jokes that only they personally felt were funny i.e. Killa) but I just want to add that the Funi Z cast were obviously inexperienced actors at the time and it's disingenuous to pretend that the Abridged cast was automatically worse at performing lines than Funi's green in-house cast simply because they weren't official/professional or anointed by Funimation themselves.

Funimation made numerous horrible decisions and didn't understand much of the product when they made the Z dub. Their actions back then showed that they didn't care much for vocal performance or remaining faithful to the original characterization.

Regarding performances, you could make the argument that the first "seasons" of the Abridged recordings are very amateur, which is true, but some of the mid-Namek to later Android stuff I've sampled over the years did indeed blow Funi's Z acting (and yells) out of the water. I found their Piccolo and Vegeta voices less grating than Sabat's Z voices too, despite being based on Sabat's. It's delivered with sarcasm and snark, sure, but I can still distinguish between a competent performance that has a conscious emphasis on keywords and clear conveying of emotions versus the often dry, monotone, script reading deliveries that littered the Funi Z dub.

Comedy aside, the performing of the lines given to them did generally become better than the official product. Though I will be fair and also mention that you have to factor in that Abridged cast wasn't necessarily always "dubbing". They were often delivering lines without restraint (like a pre-lay cartoon) and then having their editor tailor the animation to that performance. They also had the luxury of having a voice director and cast who knew the series intimately and worked to a far more relaxed schedule. Obviously, with those factors in mind, they can be expected to deliver engaging performances. It's really not a fair comparison.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by ATA » Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:47 pm

ATA wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:32 am
jjgp1112 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:07 pm
And honestly I think the biggest knock on Ian Corlett was him sounding too "normal" if anything.

Corlett's Goku sounds cartoony like a Marvel character. Kirby Marrow's Goku sounds like his should be voicing Gohan or Cabba to be honest.
Even though Corlett is my favorite English-speaking Goku, I'll certainly admit that he's very stereotypical superhero in the series. To be fair, that was a directing decision.

I think that Kelamis needed to be directed better too. He was good in the movies, but he was nowhere near as good in the series. I think that his popularity boils down to the fact that he sounds the most like Nozawa (certainly his screams). Also, Kelamis was tasked with essentially immitating Corlett.

Morrow was good too, but suffered from the same issues as the others I mentioned. Morrow was especially behind the 8-ball because not only was his job to imitate Kelamis imitating Corlett, but his run was exclusively through the Westwood dub, which means that the only performance we have of his, is the rushed, discombobulated directing that went on there.

Even still, what are we comparing to? Z's Schemmel? Z Schemmel is, in my opinion, the worst of the four. Heck, he's worse than Blue Water's adult Gokus too. Schemmel was really bad in the Z dub. Yes, with Kai, he improved--the odds are just there. Kai was also much better directed.

I have the utmost confidence that if Corlett, Kelamis, and Morrow were directed by Sabat the way he did it in Kai, that their performances would be exceptional. They have a much better and natural delivery than Schemmel. I'm sorry, but that's just how I feel. Nothing against him--but he's #4 out of 4 for me. It's just that he's up against three really good actors.

I will say that Schemmel was a lot better as Goku than Steve Blum. So, if it's any consolation, I just rated Schemmel over the exceptional Blum.

TheGreatness25 wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:26 pm Schemmel's Goku improved by leaps and bounds by Kai (of course), but my blood pressure raises when he screams.
I have to ask about this. How can you NOT like Schemmel's battle screams?
Because it's really grating to my ears. Also, his lighthearted line delivery sounds so disingenuous. It sounds like he's putting on an act as opposed to every other Emglish-speaking Goku.
I'm sure a lot of it was directing but given what's presented I just don't like none of the Ocean Dub's Goku(Or 95% of Ocean voices tbh). They just don't fit in my opinion. Like when Goku speaks and it's one of those voices, it just comes off as unnatural , too (North) Americanized, and quite frankly goofy. Kelamis had that one good scene in World's Strongest(Movie 2) with the Kaioken but that's it. Blue Water Kid Goku and Adult Goku was beyond awful in my opinion. Schemmel's Goku evovled over the years to improved and thank God because he was really bad in Z until the Cell Games. Not the Android arc...the Cell Games. Schemmel's scream is NEXT level however. I won't change your mind but to me his screams the best thing about him.
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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:31 pm

Personally I think Schemmel started to fit Goku around the android part of the story. Around the Buu arc is when I think he fully hit his stride. Knows when to be playful but become serious when needs be. I do agree that Kai is when he fully embraces the source material.

As for MasakoX as DBZA Goku, yeah he's fine for a fun playful goku. I honestly didn't really start thinking of him as a serious Goku VA until season 3 and with his R&R series.
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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by supersaiyamangod » Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:08 pm

The one abridged voice that I’m surprised the dub more or less did basically was freeza their freeza sound a lot like the abridged freeza which is funny because they did it before funi/crunchyroll.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by Majin Buu » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:24 am

NitroEX wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:10 am Not only that, but Ocean used those same poor translations just fine when coming up with scripts for Pioneer's movie dubs. Funimation didn't have the motive to do the same thing in-house until Kai, but even then there were problems inherited.
This right here should put the whole "They were using bad translations" excuse to rest. Those Pioneer dubs were working off of the same quality translations and the result was more or less Toei animation's Dragon Ball Z in English instead of Funimation's "Funi Ball Z".

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:39 am

I'm like 90 percent sure Pioneer's regular translator Rika Takahashi provided Pioneer and Ocean with the translations for the movies dubs. Unless Ocean was working off of Toei's in-house translations provided to Funimation independent of the translations Pioneer was using for the subtitles?

Still I agree obviously the "poor Engrish translations" excuse has always just been an excuse, like literally every excuse made by Funimation or made on their behalf.

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Re: When I compare all the English voices of goku including dbza the one that sounds like how goku sounds like in my hea

Post by supersaiyamangod » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:38 pm

Yukio Mashimi From tmnt 2003 which was voiced but Sean proves to me besides his super saiyan rose goku black voice that his goku voice could have been drastically improved though I’m not so sure on the screaming though. This is why his goku upsets me so because a superior goku I think is in him but they choose not to improve the voices for goku or the others Characters.

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