The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

Goku, Vegeta, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Piccolo, Gohan, Gotenks, 17, 18, and Fat Boo vs Cell Max (Gogeta, Prillin [Piccolo + Kuririn] and Tiencha [Tenshinhan + Yamcha] are available to be used here)

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Orange Piccolo vs Awakened Gas. Gas cannot age into his older state.

Goku, Vegeta, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Piccolo, Gohan, Gotenks, 17, 18, and Fat Boo vs Cell Max (Gogeta, Prillin [Piccolo + Kuririn] and Tiencha [Tenshinhan + Yamcha] are available to be used here)

I think the team definitely wins. Goku and Vegeta are basically replacing the Gammas here, adding 17 and Boo is even better. Someone important dies or almost dies, Gohan goes apeshit and anyone who's SSJB tier and above can buy time with Cell for Cell to do his thing. Hell if Piccolo is fresh then I can even see him charging a Super Makkankosappo and killing Cell himself like he did with the U6 Namekians. Not to mention I think Gogeta Blue would dance circles around Cell, but he's a last resort.

[Hellspawn28]

SSj Bardock vs. Piccolo after fusing with Nail for the first time
Merus vs DBS Broly
SSj Future Gohan vs. #14
Salza vs. Pui Pui

[Galan007]

SSj Bardock vs. Piccolo after fusing with Nail for the first time

Even if we scale base Bardock's PL to 20k(allowing for a potential/massive zenkai), his SS form would still only have a PL of 1m.

2nd form Freeza had a PL upwards of 1m, yet Nailccolo was contending just fine against him(even pressing 2nd form Freeza enough that he felt the need to utilize his 3rd form.) I don't see Bardock winning.

Merus vs DBS Broly

Merus was styling on Moro-73(who was > Broly), without even activating the full breadth of his Angelic powers. Broly would never land a strike.

[Koitsukai]

Orange Piccolo vs Awakened Gas. Gas cannot age into his older state.

I don't see Big Orange touching him. I think he is as strong as Prime Moro, I'm open to accept he is stronger than that, but Awakened Gas is just too much, he was taking on two Ultra forms at the same time.
I don't see him doing much better than vs Cell Max, only with Gas not being a raging monster, he probably wouldn't last as long.

[GatoF]

1. Piccolo (Pre-Kami) vs Android 19
2. SSJ3 Goku(ToP) vs SSJ2 Caulifla, SSJ2 Kale and SSJ2 Cabba
3. SSJ3 Goku (ToP) vs Base Broly (Super Hero)
4. God Toppo vs Gamma 1 & Gamma 2
5. Ultimate Piccolo vs Golden Freeza (Broly)
6. Champa vs LSSJ Broly
7. Android 17 (ToP) vs Saonel and Pirina
8. SSJR Trunks vs Ultimate Gohan(ToP)
9. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) vs Super Buu ( SSJ3 Goku absorbed ) if Gohan loses he fights Buu with Majin Vegeta absorbed instead.

[nineko]

What's a realistic power level for Gotan, and who is the strongest character that can be defeated by him?

I mean OG Gotan from the Boo arc, this hypothetical guy:

I know that he appeared in some video games, but let's try to stay consistent to Z.

Also, Gotan further fuses with Dende (nobody ever said that potara fusions can't be stacked). Same question as above, would this three-way fusion be at least marginally stronger even if "Dende isn't a fighter"?

[Thani]

1. Piccolo (Pre-Kami) vs Android 19
2. SSJ3 Goku(ToP) vs SSJ2 Caulifla, SSJ2 Kale and SSJ2 Cabba
3. SSJ3 Goku (ToP) vs Base Broly (Super Hero)
4. God Toppo vs Gamma 1 & Gamma 2
5. Ultimate Piccolo vs Golden Freeza (Broly)
6. Champa vs LSSJ Broly
7. Android 17 (ToP) vs Saonel and Pirina
8. SSJR Trunks vs Ultimate Gohan(ToP)
9. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) vs Super Buu ( SSJ3 Goku absorbed ) if Gohan loses he fights Buu with Majin Vegeta absorbed instead.

1. Well, Piccolo defeated Android 20. So he should win here too.
2. With just Kale aiding Caulifla, Goku felt the need to go straight to God and still Kale could match him somewhat. With just SS3, he would for sure lose.
3. Base as in before he started tapping into his Oozaru power? Then he caps at (expectrdly) base level, Goku should win easily. If it's before he transforms fully and gets trashed by God Vegeta, then... Could be a more even fight.
4. The Gammas should be really close to him, if they're just SSB-level. They could win fighting together.
5. Golden Freeza would have the power advantage here, so it would depend on how Piccolo would fight.
6. Broly might (might!) be more powerful, but Champa has a very real chance of winning.
7. Saonel and Pirina are both on Gohan's level, who is on 17's level. So he would have a real hard time against them, but the unlimited energy could help him keep going.
8. I would say it's a draw.
9. He would fight a weaker version of Buutenks. Maybe enough to be a draw? No idea. That's just with Goku tho, Majin Vegeta I think wouldn't give enough of a boost.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSj Bardock vs. Piccolo after fusing with Nail for the first time
Merus vs DBS Broly
SSj Future Gohan vs. #14
Salza vs. Pui Pui

Piccolo stomps. SSJ Bardock is at best cracking 1 million, Piccolo is considerably above 1 million.

If Merus is allowed to fight without vanishing, then I think he'd handle Broly very easily. Look at how he handled Moro, the strongest guy Goku ever fought up to that point. Plus I imagine UI would let anyone dance circles around Broly.

Probably 14. Even though he was the weakest of the Movie 7 Androids, 14 gave Trunks some trouble, and Trunks at that point was just a couple steps behind Goku and Vegeta and much stronger than Gohan.

Salza, easily. Salza could tangle with 1,000,000+ Piccolo, while I think Pui Pui is more comparable to Oozaru Vegeta.

I don't see Big Orange touching him. I think he is as strong as Prime Moro, I'm open to accept he is stronger than that, but Awakened Gas is just too much, he was taking on two Ultra forms at the same time.
I don't see him doing much better than vs Cell Max, only with Gas not being a raging monster, he probably wouldn't last as long.

It's just that I was wondering... If Piccolo "obtained power on pair with Goku and co.", shouldn't he be on pair with TUI then? I mean sure, Toriyama probably doesn't even know what TUI is, but a lot of stuff in the movie changes in the context of the Manga.

1. Piccolo (Pre-Kami) vs Android 19
2. SSJ3 Goku(ToP) vs SSJ2 Caulifla, SSJ2 Kale and SSJ2 Cabba
3. SSJ3 Goku (ToP) vs Base Broly (Super Hero)
4. God Toppo vs Gamma 1 & Gamma 2
5. Ultimate Piccolo vs Golden Freeza (Broly)
6. Champa vs LSSJ Broly
7. Android 17 (ToP) vs Saonel and Pirina
8. SSJR Trunks vs Ultimate Gohan(ToP)
9. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) vs Super Buu ( SSJ3 Goku absorbed ) if Gohan loses he fights Buu with Majin Vegeta absorbed instead.

1. Piccolo, just as easily as he handled Gero. I don't think 19 was that different from 20, the former absorbed more energy but the latter started out stronger. They're both the same after absorbing Ki, which is not enough to even touch Piccolo.

2. I'm sure SSJ2 Kale alone could handle SSJ3 Goku, her Ki was massive. The others, plus SSJ3's own stamina issues, just make it overkill.

3. Broly, but Goku would make him work for it. Broly is probably above SSJ3 for him to surpass SSJG with a 10x boost, but but we saw in DBSB that Base/SSJ Goku could hold his own with Broly despite being much weaker.

4. Toppo Hakais them into oblivion. The Gammas are comparable to Base Toppo, while Hakaishin Toppo is probably comparable to Orange Piccolo.

5. This would be very close, but I think Freeza wins in the end.

6. If Broly is a bit stronger than Beerus, while Champa is a bit weaker, then Broly wins after a good fight. Unless Champa uses Hakai, of course.

7. Gohan's biggest issue with the Namekians was their stamina and durability, but 17 himself also has those attributes. Still, it's 2v1, the Namekians win.

8. Probably Gohan. Trunks might have ended his saga stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but they've gotten better by the time of the ToP and Gohan is comparable to them.

9. I think Goku can actually close the gap here, I don't think he's many times weaker than Gohan, Boo and Gotenks anymore. Boo would equal Gohan and win thanks to his hax. Vegeta-Boo would give Gohan a bit of a challenge, but I don't think he could win.

3. Base as in before he started tapping into his Oozaru power? Then he caps at (expectrdly) base level, Goku should win easily. If it's before he transforms fully and gets trashed by God Vegeta, then... Could be a more even fight.

Didn't Broly only start using Oozaru power when SSJG Vegeta was about to kill him?

What's a realistic power level for Gotan, and who is the strongest character that can be defeated by him?

I mean OG Gotan from the Boo arc, this hypothetical guy:

I know that he appeared in some video games, but let's try to stay consistent to Z.

Also, Gotan further fuses with Dende (nobody ever said that potara fusions can't be stacked). Same question as above, would this three-way fusion be at least marginally stronger even if "Dende isn't a fighter"?

I can kinda see Goku genuinely getting weaker here... Maybe down to his Cell Games level when he fuses with Satan, so SSJ3 Gotan would be in SSJ Gotenks' Pre Rosat level. Dende might give him some of a boost, but I don't think the Ki increase would mean a power increase. I say SSJ3 Gotande gets up to SSJ Gotenks' Post Rosat level.

[Thani]

Properly? Yeah, I'd say that. But his eyes also turned yellow before he started overwhelming Vegeta in base and Super Saiyan, so that could also be considered as him starting to tap into that Oozaru power.

[Koitsukai]

It's just that I was wondering... If Piccolo "obtained power on pair with Goku and co.", shouldn't he be on pair with TUI then? I mean sure, Toriyama probably doesn't even know what TUI is, but a lot of stuff in the movie changes in the context of the Manga.

Considering it's an out-of-universe statement and not part of the movie, then it’s pretty much up for grabs, and I think T&T are working it out as we speak. Technically, it isn’t part of the story just yet.

Until the manga tackles it (or not, maybe they’ll discard it and it wouldn’t be a retcon), I’d put Big O on a second tier. If there wasn’t a manga, the ancillary comment would suffice, but since the manga is on-going and also has many differences, I’d rather wait and see how Toyo interprets that idea. So far, it's a big boost that dwarfs SSB and puts him up there with the big hitters.

[nineko]

Here's a fun one: the four saiyans (Future Trunks, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta) versus Golden Cold. Only Future Trunks and Goku should be Super Saiyan at this point, but I can imagine Gohan transforming for the first time if Cold kills Goku in front of him.

Feel free to add the bunch of earthlings to the team, but I don't think they would make any difference.

[XenoSaiyan]

MUI Goku (Start of Z) vs SSG Goku (Battle of Gods)

Namek arc Piccolo (without Nail) vs Capitan Ginyu (no body change)

Gamma 1 & 2 vs SSJ2 Kefla

UE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Buuhan

SSJ Rage Trunks (no Hope Sword) vs SSG Vegeta (Moro arc)

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

MUI Goku (Start of Z) vs SSG Goku (Battle of Gods)

Namek arc Piccolo (without Nail) vs Capitan Ginyu (no body change)

Gamma 1 & 2 vs SSJ2 Kefla

UE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Buuhan

SSJ Rage Trunks (no Hope Sword) vs SSG Vegeta (Moro arc)

With my multipliers, MUI Goku wins

Piccolo dies

The Gammas may lose after a hard fight, even if they work together

Vegeta fingerflicks Boo

Vegeta probably wins?

[ZombieVito]

Goku, Vegeta, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Piccolo, Gohan, Gotenks, 17, 18, and Fat Boo vs Cell Max (Gogeta, Prillin [Piccolo + Kuririn] and Tiencha [Tenshinhan + Yamcha] are available to be used here)

The Z fighters have a much better time beating Cell Max with Goku and Vegeta there. Gohan still goes Beast mode and ends Cell Max though.

Orange Piccolo vs Awakened Gas. Gas cannot age into his older state.

Isn't Gas stronger than Goku and Vegeta? I can only see Piccolo win this with his Makankosappo strategy that he used on Frost.

SSj Bardock vs. Piccolo after fusing with Nail for the first time
Merus vs DBS Broly
SSj Future Gohan vs. #14
Salza vs. Pui Pui

1) Piccolo one shots. Bardock is at best at 750,000.
2) Moro rivaled MUI Goku with Meerus power so I say he beats Broly.
3) Gohan I guess.
4) Pui Pui. Salza's official BP is under 200,000 and I like to give Pui Pui a little credit and have him over 1st form Freeza at least.

Here's a fun one: the four saiyans (Future Trunks, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta) versus Golden Cold. Only Future Trunks and Goku should be Super Saiyan at this point, but I can imagine Gohan transforming for the first time if Cold kills Goku in front of him.

Feel free to add the bunch of earthlings to the team, but I don't think they would make any difference.

How is this a fair fight lol? The Golden form is a massive multiplier.

1. Piccolo (Pre-Kami) vs Android 19
2. SSJ3 Goku(ToP) vs SSJ2 Caulifla, SSJ2 Kale and SSJ2 Cabba
3. SSJ3 Goku (ToP) vs Base Broly (Super Hero)
4. God Toppo vs Gamma 1 & Gamma 2
5. Ultimate Piccolo vs Golden Freeza (Broly)
6. Champa vs LSSJ Broly
7. Android 17 (ToP) vs Saonel and Pirina
8. SSJR Trunks vs Ultimate Gohan(ToP)
9. Ultimate Gohan (Buu) vs Super Buu ( SSJ3 Goku absorbed ) if Gohan loses he fights Buu with Majin Vegeta absorbed instead.

1) If this is 19 when he's at his max absorptions then Piccolo loses.
2) Kale alone beats him. She's SSG tier.
3) Broly. In his Ikari form he already rivaled SSB Goku, divide that by 10 and he's still stronger than SSG, let alone SS3.
4) Toppo finger flicks them both.
5) I'm inclined to say Freeza but it's not an easy win.
6) I have no idea. The power of the gods of destruction has been a headache since the Moro arc.
7) Gohan fought well with them 2 vs 1 so I feel 17 can do the same. He out lives them both.
Trunks. I have him almost as strong as SSB Goku at the start of the ToP, maybe even as equals.
9) Gohan loses after a great fight. He beats Boogeta easily though.

MUI Goku (Start of Z) vs SSG Goku (Battle of Gods)

Namek arc Piccolo (without Nail) vs Capitan Ginyu (no body change)

Gamma 1 & 2 vs SSJ2 Kefla

UE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Buuhan

SSJ Rage Trunks (no Hope Sword) vs SSG Vegeta (Moro arc)

1) MUI Goku can't even beat Perfect Cell.
2) Piccolo one shots. Nail implied Piccolo stood a good change of beating 1st form Freeza if he fused with God, which is a 2 times multiplier so he must be at minimum at 200,000.
3) Kefla powers down to Super Saiyan and one shots them both.
4) Boohan wins this if he doesn't fuck around long enough for Vegeta to grow stronger.
5) Trunks. I don't think Vegeta grew over 50 times stronger between the FT and Moro arcs.

[XenoSaiyan]

Not even beating Perfect Cell? I thought the MUI multiplier was so big that any character from OG Early DB with it can reach Buu Saga levels.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Here's a fun one: the four saiyans (Future Trunks, Goku, Gohan, Vegeta) versus Golden Cold. Only Future Trunks and Goku should be Super Saiyan at this point, but I can imagine Gohan transforming for the first time if Cold kills Goku in front of him.

Feel free to add the bunch of earthlings to the team, but I don't think they would make any difference.

Cold erases them by waving his hand. Golden form isn't anything to sneeze at. It's at least a 50x boost, and Cold wasn't much weaker than Freeza. Golden Cold would be at least Boo Saga SSJ level, not even a Genki-Dama is saving them here.

MUI Goku (Start of Z) vs SSG Goku (Battle of Gods)

Namek arc Piccolo (without Nail) vs Capitan Ginyu (no body change)

Gamma 1 & 2 vs SSJ2 Kefla

UE Vegeta (Saiyan arc) vs Buuhan

SSJ Rage Trunks (no Hope Sword) vs SSG Vegeta (Moro arc)

I think MUI is 125x SSJB (Sign is 50x Blue, Mastered is 2.5x Sign), which in turn is 500,000 base (Blue is 50x God, God I have at 25x SSJ3, and SSJ3 is 400x base). That makes MUI 62,500,000x base. With Goku's PL of 416, UI would boost him up to SSJ Gotenks' Pre Rosat level for me, not nearly enough to even dust SSJG Goku.

Piccolo got quite a boost after training with Kaio, I think he'd beat Ginyu pretty easily. If Nail only made Piccolo "many times stronger" instead of "tens of times stronger" (One guidebook even estimating a 5x boost), then I suppose Piccolo is on the 200k mark at the very least.

SSJ2 Kefla finger clicks each. She's UI Sign level, the Gammas were just normal SSJB level.

UE has a similar multiplier to MUI. With Vegeta being this strong, I imagine he'd reach SSJG level and pulverize Gohan-Boo.

Probably Trunks. Vegeta's improved a lot in Yardrat, but I don't think he got 50x stronger.

[Hellspawn28]

GT Perfect Cell vs. Buu Saga Fat Buu

Rules:
No cany ray
No immortality
No outside help

According in GT, it was stated that both Freeza and Cell train to prepare themselves to fight Goku IIRC

[jamiljamtheman]

GT Perfect Cell vs. Buu Saga Fat Buu

Rules:
No cany ray
No immortality
No outside help

According in GT, it was stated that both Freeza and Cell train to prepare themselves to fight Goku IIRC

Goku didn’t even have to transform and was toying with both Frieza and Cell the entire time, so without the immortality I don’t think cell was a threat to Goku.

Fat Buu, meanwhile, was able to withstand Z-Goku’s SS3 assault and Vegeta’s futile explosion, no? I am not familiar with the Buu saga’s details.

This is hard to determine because GT Goku is so much stronger than he was in the Buu saga—but I’m still going to go with Buu. GT Goku could probably defeat him, but Z Fat Buu would still win against GT Cell I think.


Speaking of GT, how do you guys think Super 17 would fare in the Tournament of Power? My opinion is that despite being overpowered, his arrogance would definitely cost him and he’d be eliminated.

[GatoF]

GT Perfect Cell vs. Buu Saga Fat Buu

Rules:
No cany ray
No immortality
No outside help

According in GT, it was stated that both Freeza and Cell train to prepare themselves to fight Goku IIRC

Fat Buu wins low dif, from what i know Gt base Goku is comparable to Z SSJ3 Goku and he beat this Cell and Freeza easily while Goku couldn't beat Buu as SSJ3.